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Sup guys! I've been playing around some 2v2s. Made it easily to platinum league and been beating people somewhat consistenly. But to get better, we need to start getting some proper BOs.
Me and my friend are currently playing a PZ team. (We used to do so in SC1 too.) But we still haven't really decided on any specific BOs. With Zerg the choice seems to be quite obvious: Roaches. But what Protoss should be getting and how fast is another issue. 1 gate core? 2 gate with mass zealots? etc. Basically, we have issues finding a proper BO for each matchup.
If you got some good BOs going down, share!
Our main problem is against a TZ team. Marauders and Roaches are so strong together. Both are ranged, both counter Zealots and Roaches. And Stalkers just get owned by them.
Getting immortal seems to be the only way to go to be honest. But the issue is, holding a ramp in this game is alot harder then in SC1, you can get a nice conclave but even with the ramp advantage, if they both just keep pumping Roaches and Marauders, they will just destroy either Zerg or Protoss, even if the Protoss manages to get an Immortal out. (It gets overpowered by sheer numbers.) This isn't always the case, but even if they don't push up, they have absolute map control untill a critical amount of Immortals.
Anyways, I'm open for ideas! Anyone been trying things out? Oh and if you have any other ideas or build orders on other matchups in 2v2, please post!
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Ive had a great deal of success in 2v2 as pz using sentry/zealot (3-4 gate you can even support 5 gate on a fully saturated 1 base) while your zerg partner goes 1 base roach (games tend to end after first attack) where if the game DOESNT he expos twice easily since gas is his limiting factor around this point while you hold positions with sentrys.
im rank 4th and 6th in 2 2v2 plat devisions and 12th in devision 1 of plat 1v1. so just throwing this out there for ya  hope it helps!
P.S. teching to immortals is an easy to lose vs zerg teams.
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pz was stronger when you could do warp-in faster by using ovie for vision and a pylon placed just far enough so most units couldn't reach it. now i'd say it's one of the weaker teams, just above double toss, because vs. any zerg team except another PZ, you're most likely going to lose. Protoss can't get units out fast enough to help their ally vs. a speedling break, when they push past any units making a wall because of collison size.
really the only way you can win as PZ vs TZ or ZZ is to turtle the initial rushes, be it speedling/marine, roach/marauder or roach/ling. if you live past that and get your tech up you have a chance. otherwise the only option is to win before they can, by doing proxy gates and a fast pool.
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On March 15 2010 12:21 Sid(TB) wrote:Ive had a great deal of success in 2v2 as pz using sentry/zealot (3-4 gate you can even support 5 gate on a fully saturated 1 base) while your zerg partner goes 1 base roach (games tend to end after first attack) where if the game DOESNT he expos twice easily since gas is his limiting factor around this point while you hold positions with sentrys. im rank 4th and 6th in 2 2v2 plat devisions and 12th in devision 1 of plat 1v1. so just throwing this out there for ya hope it helps! P.S. teching to immortals is an easy to lose vs zerg teams.
Thanks, seems certainly worth looking into! We've had little success in ending the game in the first attack though. Usually either side ends up with map control but has too little units to do the actual finishing push (ramp maps that is.) So instead we usually assume map control and expand / keep pumping units and make sure they can't meet up. But that tends to win us the game.
When you do your 3-4 gate, do you upgrade to warpgates or you just keep pumping from normal gateways? We've tried pure unit massing without really teching, usually it ends up well except against a joint Marauder / Roach force. Zealots just melt, and Stalkers lack the punch. But maybe Sentries with Zealots will work. Tbh, I haven't tried them yet, nor has my teammate. I suppose the mix of Guardian Shield and some well placed Force Fields can tip the favor of the battle to our side.
And can you elaborate on that last note you made? Because like 80% of our opponents that are Protoss, go for Immortals to counter my Roaches. Sometimes they do it almost instantly, sometimes they just sit in their base and tech to it relatively slowly and push out with massive force, and sometimes they do an aggressive opening with an Immortal follow up.
Anyways, thanks again!
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On March 15 2010 12:34 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:
pz was stronger when you could do warp-in faster by using ovie for vision and a pylon placed just far enough so most units couldn't reach it. now i'd say it's one of the weaker teams, just above double toss, because vs. any zerg team except another PZ, you're most likely going to lose. Protoss can't get units out fast enough to help their ally vs. a speedling break, when they push past any units making a wall because of collison size.
really the only way you can win as PZ vs TZ or ZZ is to turtle the initial rushes, be it speedling/marine, roach/marauder or roach/ling. if you live past that and get your tech up you have a chance. otherwise the only option is to win before they can, by doing proxy gates and a fast pool.
Can't say I've met a team yet who went for a mass speedling push. But I can see why it would be insanely dangerous. Force Field on the ramp is the only way I can see stopping that for Protoss, and some good Roach micro from the Zerg.
And your right about the WarpGate, things got more complicated. Also Burrow got also nerfed which seriously hurted my game as an Zerg, sometimes good Burrow Micro really helped out in the first battles, but now that's not really an option, mainly because of the increased research time.
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There is a PZ rep pack of JessicaJung + Shusaku in the replays thread, they are a top ranked 2v2 team. The reps are from a previous patch, but I believe it still holds up pretty well. Essentially their plan was:
-Zerg gets roaches
-Protoss gets 2gate zealots. After initial attack, switch to mass stalker. Slowly add gates until 4 warpgates, get blink when you have the resources.
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On March 15 2010 12:56 NonFactor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 12:34 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:
pz was stronger when you could do warp-in faster by using ovie for vision and a pylon placed just far enough so most units couldn't reach it. now i'd say it's one of the weaker teams, just above double toss, because vs. any zerg team except another PZ, you're most likely going to lose. Protoss can't get units out fast enough to help their ally vs. a speedling break, when they push past any units making a wall because of collison size.
really the only way you can win as PZ vs TZ or ZZ is to turtle the initial rushes, be it speedling/marine, roach/marauder or roach/ling. if you live past that and get your tech up you have a chance. otherwise the only option is to win before they can, by doing proxy gates and a fast pool. Can't say I've met a team yet who went for a mass speedling push. But I can see why it would be insanely dangerous. Force Field on the ramp is the only way I can see stopping that for Protoss, and some good Roach micro from the Zerg. And your right about the WarpGate, things got more complicated. Also Burrow got also nerfed which seriously hurted my game as an Zerg, sometimes good Burrow Micro really helped out in the first battles, but now that's not really an option, mainly because of the increased research time.
most of the top ranked teams are zerg and whatever race (usually another zerg) and they tend to do a lot of the speedling abuse. assuming it doesn't work they transition into roaches, but doing it against a protoss or zerg is usually a win. terran has the benefit of being able to wall-in, so a roach bust is more common in that case.
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most 2v2s from good people is the zerg goes 100 gas then gets lings and just spams speedlings with a protoss partner who makes mass zealots
zerg has no chance, toss no chance fi they dont wall in and terrans are too slow
2v2 is zzz
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On March 15 2010 12:13 NonFactor wrote:
Sup guys! I've been playing around some 2v2s. Made it easily to platinum league and been beating people somewhat consistenly. But to get better, we need to start getting some proper BOs.
Me and my friend are currently playing a PZ team. (We used to do so in SC1 too.) But we still haven't really decided on any specific BOs. With Zerg the choice seems to be quite obvious: Roaches. But what Protoss should be getting and how fast is another issue. 1 gate core? 2 gate with mass zealots? etc. Basically, we have issues finding a proper BO for each matchup.
If you got some good BOs going down, share!
Our main problem is against a TZ team. Marauders and Roaches are so strong together. Both are ranged, both counter Zealots and Roaches. And Stalkers just get owned by them.
Getting immortal seems to be the only way to go to be honest. But the issue is, holding a ramp in this game is alot harder then in SC1, you can get a nice conclave but even with the ramp advantage, if they both just keep pumping Roaches and Marauders, they will just destroy either Zerg or Protoss, even if the Protoss manages to get an Immortal out. (It gets overpowered by sheer numbers.) This isn't always the case, but even if they don't push up, they have absolute map control untill a critical amount of Immortals.
Anyways, I'm open for ideas! Anyone been trying things out? Oh and if you have any other ideas or build orders on other matchups in 2v2, please post!
Can you feed your ally minerals in the game? I believe you can. If so, you may try feeding your zerg ally minerals so he can mass zerglings in the early game as you either tech to immortals or just flat out feed him and go mass speedlings. He would have to very quickly put down a second hatchery, though.. Have you tried focus firing all the marauders and completely ignore the roaches?
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EPT
