EPTBasically,what I would like advice on is this; how do you balance the early units to save for gas to be prepared for immortals or colossus should they tech to it?
(I'm ranked 1 in silver division 5)
Dealing with early Immortals as Zerg
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TadH
Canada1846 Posts
Basically,what I would like advice on is this; how do you balance the early units to save for gas to be prepared for immortals or colossus should they tech to it? (I'm ranked 1 in silver division 5) | ||
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zealing
Canada806 Posts
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bodysnatcher21
Australia147 Posts
If your protoss opponents are fast teching then you can fast expand to get a huge economic advantage early on. | ||
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TadH
Canada1846 Posts
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Mr.Pyro
Denmark959 Posts
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zealing
Canada806 Posts
what is your opening build? are you just trying to adapt vs whatever the other person is doing? are you looking to do sometime specific? cause i mean i love roach rushes and even if i see 1gate obs im still going to go with it until he gets 2-3 immortals, but i go for a roach tech build which means i micro the burrow | ||
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cerebralz
United States443 Posts
alternately, i've seen mass speedling crush the toss right there if you've macro'd well. His army should be relatively small. | ||
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Piousflea
United States259 Posts
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TadH
Canada1846 Posts
usually its gg, but if they manage to hold it off, i was kind of lost, my econ sucks, so you guys are saying go to mass lings if he techs to immortals then tech to mutas? | ||
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
The only thing is I'm not sure how many roaches to make, when to upgrade to lair, when to take second gas, and when and how many drones to make at each hatch. As far as op's original post, the game says lings counter immortals but I think lings suck in sc2 so I just go for mutas. I haven't tried using banelings on zeals yet. | ||
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Mr.Pyro
Denmark959 Posts
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
The answer is not to get roaches out faster, or to have more of them, its to go without them entirely, and use that money on something else (like higher tech). You are at that level where protoss have been victimized by roaches enough that they know the direct counter. | ||
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Crovakiet
United States20 Posts
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NET
United States703 Posts
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Attica
United States277 Posts
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TadH
Canada1846 Posts
On March 07 2010 10:26 guitarizt wrote: Zealing can you send me a replay where you roach rush? Or can you describe your bo? I've just been doing 10 ov, 12pool, 16 ov, 15 gas, roach warren, queen, hatch after queen finishes, then I start making roaches right when roach warren finishes. Sound about right? The only thing is I'm not sure how many roaches to make, when to upgrade to lair, when to take second gas, and when and how many drones to make at each hatch. As far as op's original post, the game says lings counter immortals but I think lings suck in sc2 so I just go for mutas. I haven't tried using banelings on zeals yet. Yea sure, I am going to take the advice of some people in here and forego the all in rush that got me to first place ;p But if you want we can definately practice builds no problem, you can add me on bnet 2.0 my nick is prObe.ling Thanks for the advice guys, I guess I was just addicted to what was winning and wasnt doing what everyone else was and that was shifting from what used to win to what i was comfortable with. | ||
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roflQUAFFLE
6 Posts
This is the part of the game I have trouble with. Or is the idea to keep them to two bases then you'll just out econ them? | ||
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Starcloud
137 Posts
Well I think the most important thing is to know what the Protoss is doing and when he is going to move out. Always keep zergling outside his natural base and lings/overlords in his possible 3rd bases too. Remember to send Overlord/Overseer in frequently, starting from 3.30-4.00 and from there on. 2 Base all-ins You need to know what composition he is aiming for and what to prepare for. Then stop droning before the attack starts and just make pure units. You need to start making units early enough to not get over-whelmed. If you can, try to harass the attacking force with lings to buy time for your defense. Make sure you do not get supply blocked, because thats usually a quick GG after that. These are just rough advice, the situations may vary a lot and Master+ players can give better and much more accurate advice. Mass blink stalkers Mainly mass speedlings + ravagers. Spinecrawlers at 3rd are good defense too. Keep fighting at creep and try to get surround by attacking from many directions at once. If your minerals tend to rise too high, make 4th hatch in your main base for macro hatch. You need that extra larva for zerglings. If you can, send little ling runbys to his natural/3rd base to kill workers. Mass zealots (prolly with charge) Banelings are the key here. Again keep battling in the creep. Make few spines at 3rd and make as many banelings as you can. Roaches are an option too, but I feel that you can get behind in army supply if you dont start making roaches very early. Mass adept all-in (with glaives) I think this can be the most deadly one of all-ins if its executed right. You need a mix of queens/lings/roaches to hold this. When he starts to shade, follow the shades with speedlings and keep your roaches attacking the adepts meanwhile. Use queens to help where-ever you need them the most. Try to keep lings over the shades, so that when he lets the shade finish, you are surrounding the adepts immediately. Remember also to pull drones from the base the adepts are attacking to not lose them too much. Immortal/sentry/gateway all-in In ideal situation, I would like to have a mix of speedlings/banelings/ravagers to take on it. If he has lots of sentries, ravagers are a very good counter to break forcefields and bile their slow units. If they are more heavy on zealots, then making banelings are good counter to them. Roaches arent a very good option here by themselves. All of these counters have lots of speedlings, which kill Immortals very quickly. I also like to have few spines in 3rd to help out. So in short; Stop making drones when he starts to move out, preferably even bit earlier. When you play more, you start to notice the times they start moving out. Scout, Scout and Scout ! Especially if he has only 2 bases, you dont need massive worker lead then. You just need to hold the attack and you have won the game or be vastly ahead. If they have many sentries, then you should try to make some ravagers + lings. If they have many zealots, you make banelings to counter them with zerglings. If they have mixed setup with all gateway units, then either mix of bane/speedlings or ravager/speedlings is good. Make units early enough. Spread them out and DO NOT fight in a choke, where protoss can neutral lings easily. Try to fight in open ground and get surround with lings/units. Remember to bring queens too to fight, they help a lot especially if you can kill their warp-prism. What goes to teching up to hydras or mutas againts all-ins, I think thats never a good option. You wont get enough hydras or mutas to help you defend the all-in. If you talk about mid-game attack, then especially hydras can be very effective especially with banelings. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On March 07 2010 08:46 TadH wrote: Well as a Zerg player I find it extremely frustrating to have my army mid-game raped by 2 immortals with a few other units mixed in. Usually vs P I`ll try a timing push with lingséroaches, because usually if they over extend and expand you can just win, but it seems to me that roaches having +2 armor really don`t stand a chance (I hear immortals are a `hard`counter to roaches) So anyway, once my attack fails, they usually just counter with the 2|3 immortals they have and rape me with zeals etc, I know people say omg mutas pwn immortals, but realistically, mutalisks take a lot more time to mass and become effective, I mean if I save gas I might have 5-6 mutalisks, and he can just outmass sentrys and stalkers etc to counter that, and I`ll also be sacraficing roaches or hydras to save on gas. Basically,what I would like advice on is this; how do you balance the early units to save for gas to be prepared for immortals or colossus should they tech to it? (I'm ranked 1 in silver division 5) this seems to be the real problem. your go-to strat on ladder shouldn't be a kill move or you are not going to get better. i would recommend more macro-oriented openers where you barely have enough drones and units to hold the push. some replays would be nice, too. | ||
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