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Vatican City State1872 Posts
On February 24 2010 18:16 Ahzz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 10:57 radiumz0rz wrote:On February 24 2010 01:08 CrownRoyal wrote:
the only reason to get immortals is because your opponent is going collosus
target fire the collosus with the immortals Correct. All the fire power shut down collosi except for the fact that colossus can go up cliffs, they have longer range, and immortals are super vulnerable to zealots. They can only work as a surprise or a counter to his first attack maybe, after that I wouldnt keep making immortals. Even though they deal good damage to colossus, even two will still take a moment to kill a colossus. Add up that there's a zealot wall, colossus have longer range etc and your immortals are actually not that good later on. I tried it out, and it works good in theory until you try it out yourself, or maybe just for the first attack.
do you know how fast a pvp battle ends?
there isn't time to micro your collosus perfectly away from my immortals
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I think HDstarcraft's beta g7 video gives all the answers to this one.
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On February 24 2010 19:11 CrownRoyal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 18:16 Ahzz wrote:On February 24 2010 10:57 radiumz0rz wrote:On February 24 2010 01:08 CrownRoyal wrote:
the only reason to get immortals is because your opponent is going collosus
target fire the collosus with the immortals Correct. All the fire power shut down collosi except for the fact that colossus can go up cliffs, they have longer range, and immortals are super vulnerable to zealots. They can only work as a surprise or a counter to his first attack maybe, after that I wouldnt keep making immortals. Even though they deal good damage to colossus, even two will still take a moment to kill a colossus. Add up that there's a zealot wall, colossus have longer range etc and your immortals are actually not that good later on. I tried it out, and it works good in theory until you try it out yourself, or maybe just for the first attack. do you know how fast a pvp battle ends? there isn't time to micro your collosus perfectly away from my immortals
what are you talking about? you have no idea what you're rambling about.
You have zealots running in front, and colossus behind. you also have obs to see your surroundings better. Whats there to micro about a-moving and then microing 1 colossus. immortals have clearly less range. what I said to begin with was that it could work if you surprise them or maybe for first attack when numbers are low/he might not expect it, but after that it just wont unless he's bad or smthing.
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On February 24 2010 00:43 Amber[LighT] wrote:
In PvP midgame whats better?
12 dragoons, 8 zealots, and 2 high templar
22 dragoons
22 goons! ^^
ezpz
12 goons, 8 SPEEDlots and 2 HT's is a different story xD
Very situational tho...
On Topic:
People go immortals because Colossus costs 50 more minerals, 100 more gas and requires a Robotics/Support Bay (whatever it's called) which is 200/200... oO
Immortals come str8 out of robotics afaik... basically for the price, tech price, buid/tech time of a colossus you get about 3 immortals...
Engaging your enemy's force of zlots stalkers or pure zlots with equal number of zlots + 2-3 immortals will make A BIG difference... zlots take 20 dmg from immortal... stalkers (possibly) 50... not 100% but even 20 is enough...
I watched miker last night (some old WC3 pro pwn some old German WC3 pro) and they both went immortals... I can link the video, if you'd like (it's in Russian tho...)
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
On February 25 2010 02:34 Ahzz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 19:11 CrownRoyal wrote:On February 24 2010 18:16 Ahzz wrote:On February 24 2010 10:57 radiumz0rz wrote:On February 24 2010 01:08 CrownRoyal wrote:
the only reason to get immortals is because your opponent is going collosus
target fire the collosus with the immortals Correct. All the fire power shut down collosi except for the fact that colossus can go up cliffs, they have longer range, and immortals are super vulnerable to zealots. They can only work as a surprise or a counter to his first attack maybe, after that I wouldnt keep making immortals. Even though they deal good damage to colossus, even two will still take a moment to kill a colossus. Add up that there's a zealot wall, colossus have longer range etc and your immortals are actually not that good later on. I tried it out, and it works good in theory until you try it out yourself, or maybe just for the first attack. do you know how fast a pvp battle ends? there isn't time to micro your collosus perfectly away from my immortals what are you talking about? you have no idea what you're rambling about. You have zealots running in front, and colossus behind. you also have obs to see your surroundings better. Whats there to micro about a-moving and then microing 1 colossus. immortals have clearly less range. what I said to begin with was that it could work if you surprise them or maybe for first attack when numbers are low/he might not expect it, but after that it just wont unless he's bad or smthing.
i have beat every good protoss player pvp
what have you done? don't question me
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Should be soluble just with theorycrafting.
In some early-mid stage of the game, you'd want to have a mix of stalkers and zealots just because a mix of melee and range is almost always more effective than pure range. This happens due to space constraint - if you have 20 zealots, chances are high that at least for half the battle half of them won't be attacking, even if ranged units are remarkably weaker, they are still good to mix in because they will be attacking. You cannot skip straight to high tech because it's expensive. And colossi seem rather weak vs stalkers - they can be sniped and don't tank very well despite their huge size. To gain a quick upper hand, you need something more versatile and that something is Immortal - not entirely ineffective vs zeals, ranged, good in large fights due to no projectile (instant hit - no wasted shots) and completely devastating to both stalkers and colossi. Should be it =)
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On February 25 2010 03:12 Darkn3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 00:43 Amber[LighT] wrote:
In PvP midgame whats better?
12 dragoons, 8 zealots, and 2 high templar
22 dragoons
22 goons! ^^ ezpz 12 goons, 8 SPEEDlots and 2 HT's is a different story xD Very situational tho... On Topic: People go immortals because Colossus costs 50 more minerals, 100 more gas and requires a Robotics/Support Bay (whatever it's called) which is 200/200... oO Immortals come str8 out of robotics afaik... basically for the price, tech price, buid/tech time of a colossus you get about 3 immortals... Engaging your enemy's force of zlots stalkers or pure zlots with equal number of zlots + 2-3 immortals will make A BIG difference... zlots take 20 dmg from immortal... stalkers (possibly) 50... not 100% but even 20 is enough... I watched miker last night (some old WC3 pro pwn some old German WC3 pro) and they both went immortals... I can link the video, if you'd like (it's in Russian tho...)
Sorry sir, but you don't know StarCraft. They are good even without speed unless the whole map is a giant emty field.
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
i'll even tell you why you're wrong, if your collosi are moving backwards while mine are attacking your zealots die and mine dont.
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On February 25 2010 03:22 BluzMan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 03:12 Darkn3ss wrote:On February 24 2010 00:43 Amber[LighT] wrote:
In PvP midgame whats better?
12 dragoons, 8 zealots, and 2 high templar
22 dragoons
22 goons! ^^ ezpz 12 goons, 8 SPEEDlots and 2 HT's is a different story xD Very situational tho...On Topic: People go immortals because Colossus costs 50 more minerals, 100 more gas and requires a Robotics/Support Bay (whatever it's called) which is 200/200... oO Immortals come str8 out of robotics afaik... basically for the price, tech price, buid/tech time of a colossus you get about 3 immortals... Engaging your enemy's force of zlots stalkers or pure zlots with equal number of zlots + 2-3 immortals will make A BIG difference... zlots take 20 dmg from immortal... stalkers (possibly) 50... not 100% but even 20 is enough... I watched miker last night (some old WC3 pro pwn some old German WC3 pro) and they both went immortals... I can link the video, if you'd like (it's in Russian tho...) Sorry sir, but you don't know StarCraft. They are good even without speed unless the whole map is a giant emty field.
I bolded the important part of my statement... and uhmmm name a map where you don't have a big enough space to micro 22 goons vs 8 slow zlots, 12 goons and 2 hts... (And you will be right. On other maps, it's situational, wouldn't you agree?)
HT's will never get to storm anything cuz they'll be way behind the main army... slow zlots will take more damage than they deal bcuz the goon heavy army will just keep backing up/shooting so the 12 goons won't get to fire much either bcuz they'll be trailing behind the zlots.
If they're too close to zlots the goon heavy army can focus fire goons b4 zlots get a chance to attack... oO
OR it could be totally the other way around... depends on how well/bad people micro...
If you're talking about 1a2a into 1a2a3t, then yeah, latter should be in advantage... but plz give it a lil thought and weigh out all of the possibilities before you jump into conclusions, sir.
Edit: Also why do almost all PvP's start with 1 zlot then goon goon goon goon (goon range) then either reaver/DT but most of the army is goons HT's until someone gets leg speed... then they start adding more zlots which causes opponent to get archons...
End result (Units meant to attack...) Speedlots > Goons, Archons > Speedlots, Goons > Archons, HT's > Everything, Reavers > Everything, Goons > Reavers/Shuttles, Everything > HT's...
Main units composition Goons > Zlots > Archons / HT's > Reavers (DT's...) > Observers/Shuttles
Tovarisch...
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EPT
