• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:05
CEST 01:05
KST 08:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!13Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4768 users

TvZ bio push - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
February 23 2010 23:35 GMT
#41
I played Zelniq yesterday and he stopped my initial push with just speedlings. He had banelings for the second wave but he messed up and let them hit the marauder wall, which let me take out his natural. Then I stupidly lost the remainder of the army and he sneaked the gold mineral base. He went around the marauder wall the second time and that was gg. Probably shouldn't have done this build after I told him I was from TL, haha.

replay: http://ifile.it/vgudqik
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
eXigent.
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada2419 Posts
February 24 2010 00:17 GMT
#42
Ive also used this build and it works really well if its not scouted. However lately i've been trying to work on a more standard opening that allows tech. I've been trying 2 barracks 1 with tech 1 with reactor, and a factory instead of the 3rd barracks. When the factory is done, get the reactor for it, and pump hellions with your initial army. Once you have 4-6 hellions, move out to his expansion. I find that having infantry in front, and hellions in the back doing AoE damage is really strong early/mid game against roach/zergling armies. If he survives and switches to hydra, I lift the factory and make a tech lab.

Only downside is hidden muta tech. If you don't scout it in time, it's pretty much GG. (damn turrets dont shoot far at all)
Tomed
Profile Joined August 2005
United States176 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-24 00:58:31
February 24 2010 00:58 GMT
#43
On February 24 2010 08:35 ShadowDrgn wrote:
I played Zelniq yesterday and he stopped my initial push with just speedlings. He had banelings for the second wave but he messed up and let them hit the marauder wall, which let me take out his natural. Then I stupidly lost the remainder of the army and he sneaked the gold mineral base. He went around the marauder wall the second time and that was gg. Probably shouldn't have done this build after I told him I was from TL, haha.

replay: http://ifile.it/vgudqik


Interesting game. I agree with the guy above, though. Going 3 rax really hurts when they stop your push with banelings. Infantry seems to really suck against mass baneling/speedling so you pretty much need to switch to factories if banelings stop you else the Zerg will walk all over you.
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
February 24 2010 01:49 GMT
#44
I haven't had any problems with mutas when I build 3-4 turrets in my base. They're a lot beefier in SC2, and zergs are always attacking me with around 5 mutas, not 9-11 like in SC1. I'm going to try working a factory into the build too and see if that helps out.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
Tomed
Profile Joined August 2005
United States176 Posts
February 24 2010 02:14 GMT
#45
On February 24 2010 10:49 ShadowDrgn wrote:
I haven't had any problems with mutas when I build 3-4 turrets in my base. They're a lot beefier in SC2, and zergs are always attacking me with around 5 mutas, not 9-11 like in SC1. I'm going to try working a factory into the build too and see if that helps out.


Actually I don't think mutas are a problem but if the Zerg counters the push withe banelings and just keeps the pressure on with additional speed/banelings I don't know what the T can really do other than turtle and get some tanks out. I really don't think that even stimmed infantry can stop good baneling/speedling micro.
Wire
Profile Joined July 2009
United States494 Posts
February 24 2010 07:01 GMT
#46
i played an interesting game today where the guy runs about 8 banelings into my supply depot, killing it instantly and thus breaking my wall. then he runs in with about 24 speedlings and raped me.

this was when i was putting down my second rax. i thought roaches so i went tech lab but even if i didnt i would have about 8 marines which i dont think can handle that efficiently.

advice?
"You sacced your ovie, which is great, but then you didn't watch it die, which is bad :("
Tomed
Profile Joined August 2005
United States176 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-24 07:18:43
February 24 2010 07:08 GMT
#47
I just played a TvZ against Artosis and got rocked pretty hard trying to execute a very similar bio rush. Notice that I do 4 raxes instead of 2 reactors. You can still have the same unit count by the 8 min push and you don't give any tech information away by putting down a reactor at your choke. Regardless, I still got owned.

Download

On February 24 2010 16:01 Wire wrote:
i played an interesting game today where the guy runs about 8 banelings into my supply depot, killing it instantly and thus breaking my wall. then he runs in with about 24 speedlings and raped me.

this was when i was putting down my second rax. i thought roaches so i went tech lab but even if i didnt i would have about 8 marines which i dont think can handle that efficiently.

advice?


Why would you "think" roaches? You should be scouting as soon as your depot finishes (4-player maps) or as soon as the first rax finishes (2-player maps). You can clearly see if he's going early roaches, FE, or early baneling/speedling. Anyway, post the replay for proper advice.
Foxhawk
Profile Joined December 2009
United States41 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-24 08:15:09
February 24 2010 08:08 GMT
#48
On February 24 2010 16:08 Tomed wrote:
You can still have the same unit count by the 8 min push


Dunno, by my count that timing was rather different than the OP's. The BO timings were definitely different. He pushed hard @ (I think these stats are right) 7:50 with 3 marauders and 19 marines with +1 weps and +shields and +1 armor on the way. At the same time this game, T had 3 marauders and ~11-14 marines in the main with no upgrades (+1 weps and +shields on the way). Not sure how much of a difference it would've made. Artosis had ~10 roaches hatched.

Edit, for the record, here is my full annotation of the build in the OP's replay.

<> for buildings
[] for upgrades


10 Supply - <Supply Depot> 1 at choke; minor supply bottleneck here
12 Supply - <Rax> 1 @ Choke
13 Supply - <Gas> 1

Gas Finished -
2 mining SCV to gas

Rax Finished -
Rax SCV to scout
[Comsat]

16 Supply - <Supply Depot> 2
16 Supply - <Rax> 2
18 Supply - <Ebay>
18 Supply - [Reactor] @Rax 1
20 Supply - [Infantry Weapons]
21 Supply - [TechLab] @Rax 2
22 Supply - <Rax> 3
27 Supply - <Supply Depot> 3
27 Supply - [Combat Shield]
29 Supply - <Supply Depot> 4
32 Supply - [Reactor] @Rax 3
35 Supply - <Supply Depot> 5
39 Supply - <Supply Depot> 6
49 Supply - [Infantry Armor]
No plan of battle ever survives contact with the enemy.
commanderchobo
Profile Joined September 2007
Canada53 Posts
February 24 2010 11:51 GMT
#49
why can i not watch these replays? should be able to but says files are missing locally need to be downloaded =/
RPGabe
Profile Joined January 2010
United States192 Posts
February 24 2010 21:57 GMT
#50
Just to warn everyone, that replay link site in the OP has some virus or malware on it. I recommended this thread to a friend and that happened.

Don't download that one!

The build orders look good though :p
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
February 24 2010 22:12 GMT
#51
On February 24 2010 09:58 Tomed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2010 08:35 ShadowDrgn wrote:
I played Zelniq yesterday and he stopped my initial push with just speedlings. He had banelings for the second wave but he messed up and let them hit the marauder wall, which let me take out his natural. Then I stupidly lost the remainder of the army and he sneaked the gold mineral base. He went around the marauder wall the second time and that was gg. Probably shouldn't have done this build after I told him I was from TL, haha.

replay: http://ifile.it/vgudqik


Interesting game. I agree with the guy above, though. Going 3 rax really hurts when they stop your push with banelings. Infantry seems to really suck against mass baneling/speedling so you pretty much need to switch to factories if banelings stop you else the Zerg will walk all over you.


banelings isn't that bad, I don't think I've lost to banelings a single time :S

micro is VERY important, just spread and focus fire as many banelings u can. the problem with banelings is that their hp is low and they are rly slow
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
February 24 2010 22:12 GMT
#52
On February 24 2010 16:01 Wire wrote:
i played an interesting game today where the guy runs about 8 banelings into my supply depot, killing it instantly and thus breaking my wall. then he runs in with about 24 speedlings and raped me.

this was when i was putting down my second rax. i thought roaches so i went tech lab but even if i didnt i would have about 8 marines which i dont think can handle that efficiently.

advice?


more units.. theres no way he can have banelings AND 24 speedlings when u have that little units
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
Fallen
Profile Joined October 2005
Canada192 Posts
February 24 2010 22:33 GMT
#53
push with bunkers against zerg banelings/ling or anything else really it will swing the battle around!

theres no reason to not make bunkers.. you can salvage the useless ones and keep pushing.. its real great
oh hay
radiumz0rz
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States253 Posts
February 24 2010 23:14 GMT
#54
I think faster pressure with continued reinforcements would make this more effective. Stim would also be a bonus.
Berkeley '10
Daxten
Profile Joined October 2009
Germany127 Posts
February 25 2010 01:59 GMT
#55
Imo best way is to 1 rax into OC, then add Techlab and second gas
research stim and add second rax with reactor
add third raxx with another techlab (yes)

and mass pump marauders + marines
with stim rdy go and attack, use stim in the right moment and win
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-08 21:14:41
March 08 2010 21:07 GMT
#56
Nvm.. search function is my friend.
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
March 08 2010 23:33 GMT
#57
On February 23 2010 12:09 DeepGreen wrote:
It's interesting that people have said stim isn't useful without medivacs. I remember that in original SC, stim was a must-have.


I agree... stim is always better than no stim, even without medivacs, and many times you can escape from a battle that looks unfavorable by stimming and running away.
:)
Koffiegast
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands346 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-09 14:00:54
March 09 2010 14:00 GMT
#58
On February 24 2010 16:01 Wire wrote:
i played an interesting game today where the guy runs about 8 banelings into my supply depot, killing it instantly and thus breaking my wall. then he runs in with about 24 speedlings and raped me.

this was when i was putting down my second rax. i thought roaches so i went tech lab but even if i didnt i would have about 8 marines which i dont think can handle that efficiently.

advice?


So he wasted 400 minerals and 200 gas to destroy a single depot? lol!
Wut
willeesmalls
Profile Joined March 2010
United States477 Posts
March 09 2010 15:55 GMT
#59
What about on a map like Blistering Sands? Zerg forces me to fight with a roach/ling army by having roaches kill the rock at the back entrance. Marauders/rines cannot reach the roaches killing the rock. This is before I reach critical mass with marines/marauders, though I find even with 40 rine/rauder a fight away from a choke is awful if you're flanked by speedlings.

If I decide to defend my base, he can go back and forth until I am no longer fighting at a choke (i.e, in my base) since I have to defend two sides. If I don't fight at a choke, zerglings rape me.

I can't catch him out in the open without stim. If I do decide to attack his base, he can bring his units around to flank me along with the new ~8 roaches that pop out.

The only time I've won using this build was an all in with scv's at his base while lifting off my cc. I just ignored all of his units and killed his buildings.

Mass roaches are so goddamn hard to kill. It seems like fights just go: roaches focus marines, once enough marines die zerglings kill everything. I'd try mixing in hellions but it's not hard for roaches to kill those too.

I'm beginning to think zerg ground army was intended to be superior. zerglings + a cheap ranged armored unit is retarded.
Volshok
Profile Joined August 2008
United States349 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-09 16:23:29
March 09 2010 16:22 GMT
#60
On March 10 2010 00:55 willeesmalls wrote:
What about on a map like Blistering Sands? Zerg forces me to fight with a roach/ling army by having roaches kill the rock at the back entrance. Marauders/rines cannot reach the roaches killing the rock. This is before I reach critical mass with marines/marauders, though I find even with 40 rine/rauder a fight away from a choke is awful if you're flanked by speedlings.

If I decide to defend my base, he can go back and forth until I am no longer fighting at a choke (i.e, in my base) since I have to defend two sides. If I don't fight at a choke, zerglings rape me.

I can't catch him out in the open without stim. If I do decide to attack his base, he can bring his units around to flank me along with the new ~8 roaches that pop out.

The only time I've won using this build was an all in with scv's at his base while lifting off my cc. I just ignored all of his units and killed his buildings.

Mass roaches are so goddamn hard to kill. It seems like fights just go: roaches focus marines, once enough marines die zerglings kill everything. I'd try mixing in hellions but it's not hard for roaches to kill those too.

I'm beginning to think zerg ground army was intended to be superior. zerglings + a cheap ranged armored unit is retarded.


I thought a bunker gave you the range to hit roaches from behind the rock? Toss down one, then Salvage it when you want to push?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123657
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
20:00
Mid Season Playoffs
SteadfastSC237
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 237
ProTech87
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11316
GuemChi 443
Artosis 273
Dota 2
XaKoH 290
League of Legends
Doublelift5481
Counter-Strike
summit1g6880
minikerr51
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox141
Other Games
gofns15029
Grubby1683
shahzam387
C9.Mang0353
ToD162
NeuroSwarm70
ViBE45
Nathanias42
JuggernautJason34
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 116
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• imaqtpie3947
• Scarra1366
• Shiphtur647
• Lourlo472
• Stunt197
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
55m
Escore
10h 55m
PiG Sty Festival
12h 55m
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs Zoun
Big Brain Bouts
16h 55m
Nicoract vs Neeb
TriGGeR vs ShoWTimE
CranKy Ducklings
1d 10h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 12h
herO vs Krystianer
Solar vs Cure
IPSL
1d 16h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
IPSL
2 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The Patches Monday
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-12
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.