• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:08
CET 01:08
KST 09:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)8Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Mechabellum Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1924 users

[D]Map pool barometer

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
fluidrone
Profile Blog Joined January 2015
France1478 Posts
July 09 2015 10:14 GMT
#1
This thread should feature your current appreciation / thoughts / rants on the current map pool.
[image loading]

- — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — -
Poll: Map pool satisfaction (please elaborate)

100% dissapointed (7)
 
35%

50% bipolar (6)
 
30%

100% satisfied (4)
 
20%

50% satisfied (2)
 
10%

just don't care (1)
 
5%

20 total votes

Your vote: Map pool satisfaction (please elaborate)

(Vote): 100% satisfied
(Vote): 50% satisfied
(Vote): just don't care
(Vote): 50% bipolar
(Vote): 100% dissapointed



- — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — -
Poll: Map pool is going to be pure tlmc

and that is a good thing (10)
 
71%

never and that is a good thing (4)
 
29%

14 total votes

Your vote: Map pool is going to be pure tlmc

(Vote): and that is a good thing
(Vote): never and that is a good thing



- — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — - - — -
+ Show Spoiler [Madness?] +
[image loading]
Shall we discuss the rate at which community maps get unto ladder or just any of the bullet points on the above media?


thank you for your time
"not enough rights"
Meavis
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Netherlands1300 Posts
July 09 2015 10:36 GMT
#2
mixed feelings, I disagree with the current pool and whats going on but wouldn't necessarily call it bad, I just don't expect it to work given other factors.
"Not you."
justnny
Profile Joined October 2010
United States171 Posts
July 10 2015 14:08 GMT
#3
With the arrival of the new maps, all races have taken to all-ins. The all-ins are not unique, but the difficulty in holding the all-ins is unique. Additionally, each map requires wildly different special tactics to secure additional bases. I like that we got a bunch of new maps to replace a few odd or imbalanced maps, but the new maps are not intuitive or easy to defend in macro play. Many players are forced to reevaluate how they play Starcraft this season and I find that very frustrating.

Dash and Terminal has multiple attack paths into the natural and no ramp at the natural, making it tough to even gain two bases. Being close by air often lends itself to air play, and the walls present, or required, to secure the natural prevent good defense across three bases. Nearly every PvZ is opened with 14/14 into hyper aggression.

Bridgehead has tons of viable proxy locations that cannot all be scouted efficiently. With easy air and ground access to the natural and the 3rd, it requires being in two and three places at once to defend. The main and natural are too cramped for building placement and good flow through the bases. While mineral line harass isn't great with air, it is easy to bounce between the mineral line and the structures that are forced to the perimeters of the bases. Zerg usually goes for a roach/hydra bust at the natural, due to the destructible rocks leading in. If PvP isn't a battle of proxies, it skips two-base play and goes right into macro.

Moonlight Madness looks like taking a 3rd ought to be easy enough, but the number of ways into the 3rd is silly. The way the first three bases spread horizontally leaves the 3-base player wide open for being attacked or dropped everywhere since the circulation from natural to 3rd is easier for the attacking player. Taking a 4th is a death sentence, again due to how open the harass locations are.

Terraform has a zillion different attack paths, tons of viable proxy locations, and securing more than a 3rd is difficult. Of the new maps, this has played out most of the macro games I've played this season. Both players in a macro game typically mine out the main and natural, then cling tenaciously to either their 3rd or 4th. The map structure somehow holds the players to one or two active mining bases at any given time.
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
July 10 2015 14:52 GMT
#4
Shall we discuss the rate at which community maps get unto ladder or just any of the bullet points on the above media?


At the moment there isn't enough games on the new maps to see how their balance really is but in my opinion the ones who will end up being reasonably well balanced should stay on the ladder for more than 1 or 2 seasons while the really imbalanced ones should just be getting rid of by the end of the season. Keeping decently balanced innovative maps provides entertainment to the viewers thanks to the changes in meta game that occur in the process of figuring the map out and it provides a more stable map pool for players who often like to play on the same maps for a prolonged amount of time.

See foxtrot and expedition lost for example. At the frist I hated Foxtrot but toward the end I felt like the game on this map became really interesting and I was actually sad to see it go eventhough it had stayed for 4 seasons on the ladder. On Expedition Lost in TvZ a tank, marine+medivac push was made toward the end to abuse the cliff between the zergs main and natural. It would have been interesting to see how this would have developped. Would this have created a balance shift in TvZ on this map or would the Zergs have figured this push out?
rly ?
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
July 10 2015 17:47 GMT
#5
On July 10 2015 23:08 justnny wrote:


Moonlight Madness looks like taking a 3rd ought to be easy enough, but the number of ways into the 3rd is silly. The way the first three bases spread horizontally leaves the 3-base player wide open for being attacked or dropped everywhere since the circulation from natural to 3rd is easier for the attacking player. Taking a 4th is a death sentence, again due to how open the harass locations are.

.


Wait, what?

[image loading]
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
justnny
Profile Joined October 2010
United States171 Posts
July 11 2015 00:23 GMT
#6
On July 11 2015 02:47 SidianTheBard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2015 23:08 justnny wrote:


Moonlight Madness looks like taking a 3rd ought to be easy enough, but the number of ways into the 3rd is silly. The way the first three bases spread horizontally leaves the 3-base player wide open for being attacked or dropped everywhere since the circulation from natural to 3rd is easier for the attacking player. Taking a 4th is a death sentence, again due to how open the harass locations are.

.


Wait, what?

[image loading]


I have no doubt I have a little bit of this going on right now:


I just reviewed my last five games on Moonlight Madness (1 PvT and 4 PvZs). Here is what I can see:
You are right, going from the mineral line or town center of the natural to the third is a straighter line than the attacking player. That is the not common movement, however. To stay near the natural or 3rd means the attacking player can gain the concave.

A big contention point seems to be the high ground outside of the natural.

As the defending player, the location gives a good staging point for moving across the map and a good defensive position for the natural. Being there puts a lot of real estate between the army and the 3rd and most defensible 4th.

As the attacking player, having that location outside the opponents natural yields a soft contain with a highround advantage, a concave, and a direct by air attack path into the 3rd.

Should the defending player's vision of the U be lost (natural highground to 3rd highround), as is the case against a roach/hydra or muta player (or an acute Terran player), the attacker can bounce between natural and 3rd faster than the defending player can see and react.

Taking a 4th puts even greater distance away from either the natural or the 3rd, depending upon which 4th it is.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
20:00
S21 Non-Korean Championship
ZZZero.O281
LiquipediaDiscussion
AI Arena Tournament
20:00
Swiss - Round 1
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 518
PiGStarcraft481
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 677
ZZZero.O 281
NaDa 18
Counter-Strike
summit1g8025
fl0m5766
minikerr17
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox862
Mew2King38
Other Games
tarik_tv5045
FrodaN4456
Liquid`Hasu255
ToD231
B2W.Neo205
KnowMe163
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick55868
BasetradeTV23
angryscii16
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta48
• HeavenSC 26
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 34
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22965
League of Legends
• Doublelift7060
Other Games
• imaqtpie2123
• tFFMrPink 11
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
12h 52m
ByuN vs Percival
Percival vs Rogue
Percival vs Classic
ByuN vs Classic
ByuN vs Rogue
Classic vs Rogue
IPSL
19h 52m
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Wardi Open
1d 11h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 16h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
All Star Teams
6 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-10
Big Gabe Cup #3
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.