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Is it standard Newkirk style tileset with some original lighting ? It's quite beautiful.
I have difficulties telling which parts of the map are high ground -everything seems so flat. I'll have to try the map on a real game before I can tell how I like its flow.
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It's mainly Tyrador but with some Korhal and with Agria Grass.
The Lighting is Dominion Lab.
And I changed the fog to be a little thicker and slightly red instead of the standard blueish tone for Tyrador.
Newkirk uses Korhal as far as I know.
Glad you are liking it. I'm not quite sure how to adress the highground/lowground identification problems. Maybe make all the low grounds darker and all the lowgrounds that aren't yet bright, brighter.
If you try the map, please post anything noteworthy in here. 
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Getting the tennis balls that roll downhill would be such a pain 
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United States10315 Posts
map is a wee bit confusing with whats up and down.
the thirds are really in the open. my opinion is to make the 3/9 oclock bases ur thirds and move them closer and chokier to make it easier to defend.
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Thanks for the positive critiques. Made some -mainly- aehstetical updates to the OP.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
I really love the post-apocalyptic look of this map.
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I really like the details, tileset and lighting.
Though, the looping roads that lead to nowhere don't make much sense. Would look cleaner without them in my opinion... (nitpicky)
Played a game vs AI, the small 4x4 highground areas near the naturals are awesome for tanks as well as the highground areas near the center. Looks like a very splittable map. Would like this on ladder... I imagine some epic TvT on this map.
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lol tennis courts!!??
I love tennis, and this map looks pretty interesting
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I think so, yes. And I'm partial R/G colorblind, so...
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Should make it so walking on the highway gives you a creep-like speed boost, to promote respecting the traffic laws.
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Big Update to the Map and OP (check the new pictures)!
Map Update:
- Changed the 5 and 11 o'clock bases to gold. Added destructible towers. Now these bases should be a little bit friendlier to take on the opponent's side in a CatZ like build or a starvation war in ZvMech.
- 9 o'clock third bases are now a tiny bit closer to the natural
- Added destructible debris close to the natural to allow for 'experiemental' Protoss walling (check the related pics in the OP).
- Added plates (woops; had forgotten about those previously)
- removed a few pathing bugs (hope I got most of them now)
- changes to the ramps left and right of the middle
Visuals:
- Really trying to make the height differences more clear
- Added more eye candy and other visual improvements
- Removed some texture bugs
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Aesthetically, the map is gorgeous. I love the little constructions, like the highrise/courtyards and the tennis courts. Really lovely.
Re: gameplay (and take this all with a grain of salt, I'm no expert), the middle of the map strikes me as being a little cluttered. I'm thinking especially of the 7 o'clock aggressive third. There are two separate ramp constructions adjacent to it, and an impassable building doodad in between them. I feel like the impassable building/courtyard is too much. It chokes up the nearby pathways and it gets squarely in the way of a parade push. A few random ideas on how to change it: put the tennis court where the building/courtyard is, rotated 90*, and do something else around the gold (nothing? make it all high ground?)... or draw a giant high ground "Z" that starts/ends where the building/courtyards are now, and intersects the middle of the map connecting the two center ramps you have now.
This is just food for thought. It's a beautiful map and I'd love to see it in WCS.
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I actually thought I posted earlier in this thread but since I didn't, I want to say that I love that map., both aesthetically and gameplay-wise. Would love to see it on ladder
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Thanks a lot guys.
@Wasted: Your critique about the aggressive third vs side third scenario and parade pushing isn't unheard. For now I'm good with only changing the ramps in the middle to make the movement a little smoother. I have considered playing around with the highground setup around there multiple times, but I'm not really sold that it is bad.
Personally I think that although attacking that side-third might be hard, regardless of which fourth the opponent takes, it becomes much easier to parade it in TvZ.
For TvP, I think positioning yourself on the large open plaza makes it very hard for the Protoss engage, and though it might be hard to force an army battle, you are in a very nice position to drop in all directions.
@Other: Added a screenshot for ZvZ walling. In that version you don't need a creep tumor, though it takes some time until the creep reaches everywhere. Also parts of the wall can easily be rearranged differently and you can put queens/spine in it instead. Just wanted to show that you can full wall if you really want/need to with only 3buildings. (same goes for other races as well)
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On October 21 2014 21:36 Big J wrote:
@Other: Added a screenshot for ZvZ walling. In that version you don't need a creep tumor, though it takes some time until the creep reaches everywhere. Also parts of the wall can easily be rearranged differently and you can put queens/spine in it instead. Just wanted to show that you can full wall if you really want/need to with only 3buildings. (same goes for other races as well)
Thank you for thinking of ZvZ d:
As long as the creep reaches the choke it's fine, you can always place a tumor instead of inject if you want to reach it faster, it's when you have to place a tumor to even have a chance to reach the choke that it's problematic. It's nice to be able to do an emergency wall too
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Played the map once vs a clanmate, seems pretty solid, although the terrain is a big confusing. the main problem I see is that the 3rd is still pretty hard to take. There are just too many paths that you can be attacked from, so either make the high ground 3rd closer to the nat, or make the other base choker.
The second thing which is problematic is the main mineral line. it does not have any spaces in between, only on the sides, which is annoying in PvT since normally you wall both sides of the mineral line to limit reaper mobility in your base, but by doing so on this map you make for a perfect dropping spot. I don't think it's super important, but also there is no real reason for it to be different from the standard.
Replay if you want: http://drop.sc/387748
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On October 22 2014 00:06 moskonia wrote:Played the map once vs a clanmate, seems pretty solid, although the terrain is a big confusing. the main problem I see is that the 3rd is still pretty hard to take. There are just too many paths that you can be attacked from, so either make the high ground 3rd closer to the nat, or make the other base choker. The second thing which is problematic is the main mineral line. it does not have any spaces in between, only on the sides, which is annoying in PvT since normally you wall both sides of the mineral line to limit reaper mobility in your base, but by doing so on this map you make for a perfect dropping spot. I don't think it's super important, but also there is no real reason for it to be different from the standard. Replay if you want: http://drop.sc/387748
Thanks a lot. I'll be fixing both!
But not today, changing the side-third bases is going to take quite some effort. (uff)
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The base layout has similarities to Cloud Kingdom, but the attack paths are very different.
Expanding past the natural seems quite difficult, let alone getting up to 4+ bases.
I like the hill just in front of the natural's opening, but it needs a lot of testing. I am not sure if that hill is to give defenders or attackers the advantage, as I can theorize it going both ways.
For example, I can see tanks sieged up behind the hill being a huge pain for zergs.
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Big update to the side 3rd base:
- it has moved closer to the naturals
- mineral line repositioned to emphasize that effect
- offensive ramps leading up to these bases changed from 4x to 3x
- defensive ramps leading up to these bases changed from 3x to 2x
- the 4oc & 10oc bases have been moved closer to these third bases
Fixed the main mineral line.
The aggressive 3rd base has been moved a hex closer to the natural
Change overview
+ Show Spoiler +
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Can you safely park an overlord in the air space between main and natural?
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On October 22 2014 19:56 OtherWorld wrote:
Can you safely park an overlord in the air space between main and natural?
No. In general the distance has to be treated a bit like a 4p map. An overlord cannot safely reach the hiding spot over the natural because it takes like 3:30 to get there and 3:15 is when the first marine pops from a 1rax. (most maps do like 3:00 I think). But then again, that also makes it a little safer against 2rax due to the distance.
What you can do is park the overlord behind the main base, if you get there, like against reaper play. Maybe I should alter the spot with the natural, so that you can watch drone counts in ZvZ. Good food for thought!
Edit: What do you think of this:
A building to hide your overlord above that is reachable in 3:15 and allows your overlord a retreat in front of the natural if a marine is out and about. While the more popular CC first and reaper first still allow you to reach the hiding spot at the natural from there on.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qka5I8n.jpg)
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On October 24 2014 04:39 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 19:56 OtherWorld wrote:
Can you safely park an overlord in the air space between main and natural? No. In general the distance has to be treated a bit like a 4p map. An overlord cannot safely reach the hiding spot over the natural because it takes like 3:30 to get there and 3:15 is when the first marine pops from a 1rax. (most maps do like 3:00 I think). But then again, that also makes it a little safer against 2rax due to the distance. What you can do is park the overlord behind the main base, if you get there, like against reaper play. Maybe I should alter the spot with the natural, so that you can watch drone counts in ZvZ. Good food for thought!
Yeah it's always good to have the ability to park an overlord there. I was mainly thinking about ZvZ where the marine problem doesn't happen, although 3:30 may also be considered problematic in ZvP to scout the kind of expand with the overlord. Not a big deal though, you can always drone scout if you really want the intel.
edit : just saw your edit, can you really park an ovie there? It seems tiny, but if you actually can, then yes it's a pretty nice addition I think (and you did it in a very aesthetical way too)
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On October 24 2014 04:48 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2014 04:39 Big J wrote:On October 22 2014 19:56 OtherWorld wrote:
Can you safely park an overlord in the air space between main and natural? No. In general the distance has to be treated a bit like a 4p map. An overlord cannot safely reach the hiding spot over the natural because it takes like 3:30 to get there and 3:15 is when the first marine pops from a 1rax. (most maps do like 3:00 I think). But then again, that also makes it a little safer against 2rax due to the distance. What you can do is park the overlord behind the main base, if you get there, like against reaper play. Maybe I should alter the spot with the natural, so that you can watch drone counts in ZvZ. Good food for thought! Yeah it's always good to have the ability to park an overlord there. I was mainly thinking about ZvZ where the marine problem doesn't happen, although 3:30 may also be considered problematic in ZvP to scout the kind of expand with the overlord. Not a big deal though, you can always drone scout if you really want the intel. edit : just saw your edit, can you really park an ovie there? It seems tiny, but if you actually can, then yes it's a pretty nice addition I think (and you did it in a very aesthetical way too)
There's regular Terrain beneath it, I just hide it with a Doodad.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IW9rKg7.jpg)
The thing with sending the first Overlord is that the map just behaves a little bit like a 3p map in that regard. Still better, because the first Overlord still reaches the natural way before a second overlord reaches "the other base" you scout if the first one doesn't find the opponent. But yeah, you either drone scout extra, or play blind for a little bit in any matchup.
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wooow this rules, good changes.
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Why dont you like the North? No grass on the North side.
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did you put one little blood splat next to the statue? =D
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On October 24 2014 15:13 Hexe wrote:
Why dont you like the North? No grass on the North side.
They didn't want to copy the South and having a huge square plaza sounded more epic than dirty nature!
On October 24 2014 19:13 Isarios wrote:
did you put one little blood splat next to the statue? =D
You are probably looking at one of the two red birds that circle above the statue. The green in the South has blue birds. They aren't very easy to identify in those static screenshots at that zoomlevel.
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Northern Ireland281 Posts
Hey man this is a beautiful map.. for me the city style maps always look awesome, but this one is very very nice indeed
I can't really comment on balance since my terrible platinum league brain justs tries to count how many tumours it'll take me to link my third, and then figure out which direction my roaches should shuffle, and thats about the end of it lol.
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