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Hello TL. My first finished map.
----Mar Sara's Canyon----
-------by ConCentrate
-------Focus mapmaking (kickass banner soon)
NA EU KR SEA
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wKfrx35.jpg)
Playable 152x 128
Distance: main to main 60 sec (worker)
The map
The idea was making a map with a canyon on it. This is the main feature and everything else was adapted to it.
Although small, ground distance from main to main is relative big, 60 sec (v. 1.4), due to the ramps positioning. Reapers will get a much faster time by jumping up and down the canyon. Natural has a standard choke and it is easy to wall-off.
The rocks at your natural are supposed to be a weakness to greedy plays, so it is closer to the mineral line than the rocks on Yeonsu for instance allowing more direct agression. As a trade-off, the third base is close to the natural, no backdoors, rocks choking the ramp, and sight blockers near ramp for defensive advantage. I hope this slightly different set up can be appreciated among all standards main-natural-3rds we have.
Important to note that players can't build on the lower level of the canyon. It not only prevents players from messing with the height tool used for careful sculpting of the river, but it also make the river a neutral zone, any reinforcement from pilons will have to be made across the canyon, as well as spines and whatever Terran may want to build for positional purposes.
Pictures
+ Show Spoiler +
Feedback is always appreciated.
EDIT: fixes/updates
+ Show Spoiler +v. 1.2 - fixed straight lines and cliffs
v. 1.4 - mineral patches and middle ramp fixed
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Love the texture work, overall the map looks really good, although normally straight lines don't look normal, you should try to avoid them.
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Yeah. The texture work is really nice, but the cliff edges look pretty bad. Focus on making them look natural - look at some other maps (my favourite cliff work is on Frost and Yeonsu) to get an idea of what looks good and what doesn't.
In terms of balance, I'm not sure how the canyon will play out. It might encourage strong positional play trying to control it, or it might encourage very splitty games where no one tries to cross the map. I'm not sure. If playtesting tends towards splitty and passive styles, you could always add another ramp near the center of the canyon with very strong rocks.
I'm also not too happy with only 5 bases, but I'm not sure where you could really squeeze one in. I guess it works.
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Looks like past 12 min mark no one is crossing the canyon!
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These aesthetics are really cool. Fix the straight cliffs and it's a work of art.
The layout at this point is really interesting -- it's almost boringly simple but I feel like it has that deceptive quality that made the original Blizzard SC1 and BW maps fun due to a strong concept. I'd like to see how this map plays, I think it could have some really epic moments.
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Woah, I love the color scheme and the theme + doodads.
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On February 21 2014 12:10 Semmo wrote:
Woah, I love the color scheme and the theme + doodads.
I was thinking the same thing. The choice in textures and doodads are quite nice. Very creative.
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The edges of the map almost look like an aerial photograph.
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Textures are cool and the forests are really well done, but shaping your cliffs with fewer straight lines will make the map as a whole look much better.
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Thanks for feedback.
Straight lines fixed and cliffs around the main and 3rd bases changed.
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 21 2014 05:33 JessicaSc2 wrote:
Looks like past 12 min mark no one is crossing the canyon!
Yeah chances for split map scenario is pretty huge, but maybe with the current meta favouring so much air units, players will won't need the ramps to force engagements or pick up enemy on the other side. Anyway, the ramps are at the ends of the canyon, so I don't think a player can easily block both of them in mid game to turttle in 5 bases.
On February 21 2014 04:56 skdeimos wrote:I'm also not too happy with only 5 bases, but I'm not sure where you could really squeeze one in. I guess it works. I'm not sure if a 6th base would help. If map gets split (as it probably will) one more base will just prolong a passive game, I don't think a 6th base would spread one army thin enough to become late game weakness, or allow some transition that you can't already do on 5.
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This map came out really nice, love the aesthetics. What is the rush distance it seems kinda long?
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Quite long, Main to Main: 80 sec. Nat. to Nat.: 53 sec.
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United States10182 Posts
long rush distances with a super easy to take third. either make the rush distances smaller (i recommend making ramps to allow units going straight through the middle) or make the thirds harder (adding a ramp)
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By adding ramps in the middle the rush distance gets 20s shorter (60s).
+ Show Spoiler +
Does it make it better or removing the rocks at the 3rds ramp is enough? Doesn't it strenght sentry pushes that will have a shorter free pass till opponent side and then a short walk till they can "hug the wall" on 3rds cliff? On larger ramps you'll need more force fields to push the defender back. If protss fails and need to retrat, zerg can punish whitout being force fielded mid ramp. Or continuous rally from mass rax coming faster trough a choke point instead of taking longer and through a terrain easier to surround?
Not sure if the first 3 bases are as safe as you said, despite the shape of the third. Don't forget that the natural has a blocked side entrance, so your first units can start working on it untill the next cycle comes to finish breaking it, and also there's enough room for the attacker to make a concave or siege, and enough space behind mineral lines for mutas/dropships.
I'll hold the changes for now, but if there's more negative feedback on this point (or another) I'll fix it.
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Trees on top of cliffs, especially tall trees like you use may block unit views and be annoying. (learned from hard experience)
Looks good expect from that.
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River needs some work  minecraft style.
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No matter what it's going to be a map where any attack on or before 3 bases is a very deliberate strategy orchestrated from the beginning of the game. For this reason, I think it's fine to keep the rocks because they counteract the ridiculous openness outside them. You could add extremely narrow ramps in the middle (using doodads to make them even narrower than normal) to allow a quicker scout, but it might be cool to have a map with really long scout distance. Does this break anything in the HotS metagame?
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On February 22 2014 08:21 EatThePath wrote:You could add extremely narrow ramps in the middle (using doodads to make them even narrower than normal) to allow a quicker scout, but it might be cool to have a map with really long scout distance.Does this break anything in the HotS metagame?
Thats sounds interesting. The thightets choke possible that only workers and small units can pass would make scout faster but wouldn't allow safe/quick army movements. If a add ramps in the middle I will probably do this way. Dont' know if it breaks something, but PvT can be even more coin flipy for terran as the stalker/MSC would be already out, no one would get to the main ramp before terran walling off, could be too late to punish greedy zergs... current game doesn't need more lucky build order wins or blind play. Getting really inclined to do these small ramps.
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I was always a fan of Derelict Watcher. Everyone else hated it because of how open it was and the distant expansions. This map keeps the same expansion pattern (while removing a base) and making it heck of a lot tighter in the middle.
I think the ditch in the middle will make playing against swarm hosts heck of a lot easier. The potential for circum-syndrome (armies bypass in the middle and awkward base trade ensues) is there and I like it. I like the map. Good job. I hope to see it on ladder some day.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/32ASaX7.png)
Small ramps. Archon, Ultras, Thors and Tanks can't pass. Other units will have to go on single line.
Distance from main to main is now 60s. Early scout and pushes are possible, late game deathball armies don't.
Updated on all servers.
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Actually a very beautyful map and a bit unique, i love the texturework and overall design too, the balance i dont know much about but the baselayout seems good to me. Good Work! And for being a first map it's supergood even. Ok first "finished map" but still ;D
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I played a couple games with a friend, it was fun. There are some little things you need to fix.
Make sure you check the CC placement and minerals at each base. The highground bases have a mineral patch out of place that is blocked behind the others. This is at another base too I think. The base furthest out above the end of the canyon has a mineral patch forcing the CC to be placed 1 square too far away.
The ramps in the middle do not properly block large units; you can see this in the replay where an archon goes through. I recommend you turn off doodad footprints on those rocks and use the painted no-path to make them exactly 1 square wide.
Replay
This game isn't indicative of much but it lasts for a while (maybe too long haha) and has some fun parts.
I'll definitely say playing around the canyon feels really interesting. On the one hand you might be out of position and too far to recover but on the other hand if you are scouting properly you can cover everything really well. If anyone wants to play on NA let me know.
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Thx EatThePath gg. I enjoyed watching, hope it wasn't a pain to play it.
Symmetry tool fails again. Mineral patches are copied from Yeonsu and Heavy Rain so they should be right now. The ramps were fixed, now you can block them with just one unit and archons shouldn't be able to pass.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j1vXgkd.jpg)
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