EPTSomething like that for each unit and tier...
An Open Letter to the Devs of OneGoal and Starbow - Page 3
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NapkinBox
United States314 Posts
Something like that for each unit and tier... | ||
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Rampager
Australia1007 Posts
I find the ban/pick phase of DotA2 to be the most exciting part of a match, watching how the teams draft and looking for nuances or trying to predict how they'll play it out is ridiculously entertaining. But like others have mentioned it seems it would need a lot of work/redesign to function in StarCraft2. As an alternative I could see a method of banning/picking, or maybe just picking, in regards to certain unit abilities. Perhaps instead of the HotS Medivac Emergency Boosters you decide to pick up Cadeous Reactor. The main role of the unit stays solid, but it's strengths/weaknesses can be tilted. Interesting thread, curious thoughts all round, thanks for the read! | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On February 24 2013 12:15 purakushi wrote: Both are supposed to be SC2 *melee* mods, not UMSs. Changing either of them to include picks/bans would completely defeat the purpose that players create/play it in the first place. If you choose to make a UMS like that, please do go ahead. It would definitely not be considered SC2 melee, however. Like I said if the devs dont agree this is in fitting with their vision of the game they are free to ignore it  I do however feel there are identifiable reasons DOTA became more popular than WC3 and that SC2 mods can learn from this. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On February 24 2013 12:20 Archerofaiur wrote: Like I said if the devs dont agree this is in fitting with their vision of the game they are free to ignore it I do however feel there are identifiable reasons DOTA became more popular than WC3 and that SC2 mods can learn from this. Drafting was a late entry to the entire MOBA genre, so I'm not sure how you consider that an identifiable reason. MOBA is also an entirely different genre, just created using the WC3 game engine. This would be akin to saying Unreal should become more like an MMORPG, because Lineage was built on the Unreal Engine. | ||
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comet1
United States24 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On February 24 2013 12:35 comet1 wrote: As a developer of the OneGoal mod I think that you may of misinterpreted our intentions. We are improving upon Starcraft 2 leaving the core mechanics and all of the units intact or Semi intact. We are not interested in a complete re-haul of the game. changes like this would make Starcraft, well not Starcraft anymore. These changes do have potential but none of these ban/pick changes you have stated are present in either Starbow or OneGoal mods. No problem, appreciate the consideration. | ||
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Zer atai
United States691 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
A choice between Vultures or Hellions Lurkers or Swarm Hosts Corsairs or Pheonix EDIT: Now I think about it, we'll never get to play with BW units because of their potential. | ||
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
As for the point "In contrast DOTA 2 has put out 7 new units in the past five months alone". First of all Dota2 is still in beta, and secondly, Dota2 will eventually be a 1:1 replica of Dota1, just made in the Source engine rather than a WC3 mod. The last time new heroes was added to Dota was in 6.75 Edit: And how would it work if you ban out workers? ____ During a CS:GO showmatch in February between NiP and Lemondogs, they both decided to not use Deagles (since it was super-OP at the time). I would like to see more of that. | ||
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darkmighty
Brazil48 Posts
Should be at least tried to see where it takes. Edit: WindWolf, you obviously wouldnt be able to ban core units, which includes workers | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
I hate this idea and think it's a terrible one. Units should have defined roles on a strategic level. When you add the ability to ban units, you are removing a role from a player's strategic and tactical palette and thus creating imbalance, not avoiding it. For example, Terran has pretty limited GtA options against light air. They basically have marines and that's it. That's why Marines are such good AA. Protoss has limited GtA options in general. They basically have stalkers and that's it. Each race has limited options for early harass / pressure. Take away those options and Zerg will drone and expand to 4 bases before the 7 minute mark. The alternative is to add multiple units that fill the same role... and then I ask, what is the point of banning other than to make the game needlessly more complicated? It's not accomplishing anything at that point. The meta-game is already constantly shifting and continues to change based not on units, but on strategies which are map influenced. And, how do you practice and how do you reward skill and practice with this system? Removing certainty from the game adds to the current reality that the most skilled player doesn't always win. Players already have enough to practice for, they don't need to have to practice multiple back-up strategies on top of practicing for different maps. Adding the ban/pick system just dilutes their focus in practice and trades solid, well trained play for a gimmicky ban/pick phase before games. All ban/pick does is give players more incentive to coin-flip with a few all-in strategies. I would much rather watch player A's best thought-out and rigorously practiced strategy vs. player B's best thought-out and rigorously practiced strategy and have in-game skill and execution determine the winner rather than watching a player deal with having to go to their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. option and showing a clear lack of polish with it. The bottom line is people want to watch and will come back for more high-level play. This option doesn't provide that. | ||
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
On February 24 2013 13:31 darkmighty wrote: Edit: WindWolf, you obviously wouldnt be able to ban core units, which includes workers But what counts as a core unit? You really need to allow all units to be picked/banned, otherwise people will start abusing strats with those core units to death. I'd much rather see a NiP-Lemondogs agreement then pick-ban in Sc2 | ||
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darkmighty
Brazil48 Posts
On February 24 2013 13:43 WindWolf wrote: But what counts as a core unit? You really need to allow all units to be picked/banned, otherwise people will start abusing strats with those core units to death. I'd much rather see a NiP-Lemondogs agreement then pick-ban in Sc2 Did you read OP's post entirely? He suggests a 'Core Unit' combination for each race. What this does is control the amount of randomness in the game, adding some certainty and solid base, on top of some volatility and diversity (and fun!) from lots of units. Obviously banning miners and early game staples (to avoid early game rushes) would be unsustainable (if allowed they would be aways banned), so it just makes sense also. | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
Best bet is getting your hands dirty and making your own UMS. Or play draft monobattles. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On February 24 2013 14:36 urashimakt wrote: As I understand them, both OneGoal and Starbow are melee mods. They attempt to alter the gameplay of SC2 without scrapping it. This seems more akin to any of the monobattle mods with a drafting mode, except instead of 8 players you have 2 and instead of being limited to 1 unit you're limited to 4 (or something). Best bet is getting your hands dirty and making your own UMS. Or play draft monobattles. Yup monobattles is similar, the reason i addressed the onegoal and starbow devs is because i think their mods have the most potential currently to have the same success DOTA did. | ||
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Mahanaim
Korea (South)1002 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On February 24 2013 14:42 Archerofaiur wrote: Yup monobattles is similar, the reason i addressed the onegoal and starbow devs is because i think their mods have the most potential currently to have the same success DOTA did. There already is a dota style mod btw. Forgot the name but TB did a couple videos on his channel about it. Edit found it, it is called star battle | ||
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
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Ratch!
Peru258 Posts
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SiskosGoatee
Albania1482 Posts
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