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@ Zorgaz
There already exists a melee mod like this. It's SoulFilcher's expanded melee mod. I'm not exactly sure what it's status is at this very moment. But it has the idea of which you speak. Similar to the campaign, you have to make either/or choices about which tech path to pick (eg. stalker or dragoon; phoenix or scout) in the context of a standard melee game.
*****
But on topic, I'll concur with what appears to be the general sentiment of this thread thus far. A ban/pick draft system simply isn't viable in an RTS that would purport to be finely tuned and balanced and competitive. The inter-relation and interaction of all of a race's elements together often is what comprises much of balance.
Unlike in MOBA games where heroes are essentially isolated factions unto themselves, specific units make and break strategies in SC2.
Although, come to think of it, OP's proposal actually sounds a lot like another one of the Funday Monday topics where you ask your opponent to pick 3 nion-worker units that you're not allowed to build.
There's also a reason why Monobattles isn't exactly 'balanced' either. But then it's not supposed to be. It's supposed to be a rip-roaringly goofy-fun time with insanity abounding.
But again, such a mod would be SC2 in the same way that Storm of the Imperial Sanctum is SC2. The 'core' of SC2 gameplay is arguably supposed to be about melee, mastery and execution where the better player always wins. And those are the goals that StarBow and OneGoal are pursuing.
What you suggest would be some other kind of game inside the SC2 client, but it wouldn't really be SC2 in the same way that DotA wasn't WC3.
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This is madness, how in the hell do you think this would work in sc2? Did you think of consequences on banning some balancemaking units? Like banning infestor in wol.
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Interesting. I think Picks and Bans as a system is the way to go for competitive future RTS esports because it allows for a sustainable economic model (Free to play with a constant influx of purchasable content) I don't know if it would work with Starcraft, a game designed and conceptualized around a closed system (A group of mechanics that will be expanded upon a few times rather than once every three to six weeks)
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You people are so afraid of changes. This is indeed an awesome mode for SC2. And I for one applaud this idea.
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I would ban vcs/probes/drones.
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On February 24 2013 10:23 Xiphos wrote:
You people are so afraid of changes. This is indeed an awesome mode for SC2. And I for one applaud this idea.
Every time someone uses the "you are so afraid of change" means they don't got a counterargument.
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A pick ban system would make so "build order advantage" far worse if those units had any unique traits whatsoever. That is not to say that I don't think this style of game could be fun. I just don't think it will ever be completely balanced.
Starbow is pretty awful, too. OneGoal is a bit more interesting if only because it sticks to its goals. I remain convinced that despite the fact that it is looking backward, the most fun mod you can play is of course, Starcraft 2 Brood War because it is shameless about what it intends to do - recreate Brood War without the shitty limitations.
That's good enough for me. I would probably play a MOD that played a little like this (pick/ban units, maybe out of singleplayer) but a tournament? A ladder? No way in hell.
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On February 24 2013 10:33 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 10:23 Xiphos wrote:
You people are so afraid of changes. This is indeed an awesome mode for SC2. And I for one applaud this idea. Every time someone uses the "you are so afraid of change" means they don't got a counterargument.
That's right! I can't think of any counterargument against this! What a mind reader!
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You would have to add waay more units to this to keep in balanced; I'd say it's worth a shot, but I have my doubts.
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My gut says this is exploitable in some way. However I'd be curious to see this in monobattles, since those are team-based and you could ban out the obviously strong choices.
This essentially makes SC2 into quadrabattles or quintabattles. If you want a DotA of SC2, why not just take an already extremely popular mod, monobattles, and add pick/ban to make it competitive?
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Please burn down your computer and never post on the internet again.
However, the result was a dilution of individual unit identity, difficulty for new players to learn game and balance problems.
dilution of individual unit identity
"Hey guys, let's make the game more like DotA!"
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On February 24 2013 07:57 ktimekiller wrote:
I am terribly confused, just what is onegoal and starbow?
There are links to those projects at the very top of the OP.
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Added Example Draft to better show how Ban/Pick systems work. This is just an example!
Example Draft Pick
Player 1 (Terran)
Core Units:
SCV
Marine
Siege Tank
Battlecruiser
Player 2 (Protoss)
Core Units:
Probe
Zealot
Stalker
Mothership Core
First Round Bans
Sentry
Marauder
Voidray
Widow Mine
Colossus
Banshee
First Round Picks
Warhound
Reaver
Vulture
Warp Prism
Science Vessel
Tempest
Second Round Bans
etc...
Second Round Picks
etc...
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On February 24 2013 11:12 TOPRuin wrote:Please burn down your computer and never post on the internet again. Show nested quote + However, the result was a dilution of individual unit identity, difficulty for new players to learn game and balance problems. "Hey guys, let's make the game more like DotA!"
Before I burn down my computer Id like to point out that I agree that adding more units dilutes the individual unit identity but that I believe the benefits from having new units added continuously to the mod outweighs this.
This was a great post that probably deserves more attention
On February 24 2013 08:02 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
I've been thinking about how to do a P/B system for core starcraft for a while now. I think it would fundamentally change the feel of how starcraft played, probably for the better, taking it away from a game where people practice stagnant builds to millisecond perfection and towards one where strategy is more continually evolving or at least evoluting. I'm not honestly sure whether you could call this inherently better, as SC has always had a fetish for execution over strategy, but there's nothing stopping both systems from running in parallel
On February 24 2013 10:02 The_Frozen_Inferno wrote:
@ Zorgaz
There already exists a melee mod like this. It's SoulFilcher's expanded melee mod. I'm not exactly sure what it's status is at this very moment. But it has the idea of which you speak. Similar to the campaign, you have to make either/or choices about which tech path to pick (eg. stalker or dragoon; phoenix or scout) in the context of a standard melee game.
*****
I knew someone must have tried something similar 
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I am personally not interested in this but good luck with the project though.
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On February 24 2013 10:10 Ryndika wrote:
This is madness, how in the hell do you think this would work in sc2? Did you think of consequences on banning some balancemaking units? Like banning infestor in wol.
So what? you ban his colossi or his marines and continue playing
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On February 24 2013 11:28 Wildmoon wrote:
I am personally not interested in this but good luck with the project though.
I am not in charge of either of these mods, this is merely a suggestion.
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On February 24 2013 11:19 Archerofaiur wrote:Added Example Draft to better show how Ban/Pick systems work. This is just an example! Example Draft Pick Player 1 (Terran)
Core Units:
SCV
Marine
Siege Tank
BattlecruiserPlayer 2 (Protoss)
Core Units:
Probe
Zealot
Stalker
Mothership CoreFirst Round BansSentryMarauderVoidrayWidow MineColossusBansheeFirst Round PicksWarhoundReaverVultureWarp PrismScience VesselTempestSecond Round Bansetc... Second Round Picksetc...
The problem with this is that you have people banning units for reasons other than what the original poster wanted. The original poster is describing draft/ban as a quantifiable method to determine what units are considered overpowered by the player base, but your example would skew those results because the bans/picks would be elements of strategy not purely based on what is OP. For example, if the protoss bans marauders and picks stalkers the Terran will recognize that his primary counter for stalkers has been banned, thus affecting what he will next pick to ban, at this point the terran is not banning based on the objective strength of the protoss/stalker but now banning based on the subjective strength of this specific set of bans/picks which really makes any overall data compiled from a draft such as this meaningless and impossible to interpret. If I was playing a zerg that banned thors, then immediately mutalisks look very strong and I may want to ban mutas when in reality the unit I feel is overpowered is the infestor.
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Not only does this not work for Starcraft in general, due to the fact that the "forced coolness" factor that you yourself mentioned, which means every unit in the game is neccesaery for the game to exist, its also important to note that the goal of these mods is to be the maximum potential of Starcraft, not to be a spin-off, while this might be an interesting idea in a separate mod and I am sure would be fun to play and popular, it would not be right for these two.
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Both are supposed to be SC2 *melee* mods, not UMSs. Changing either of them to include picks/bans would completely defeat the purpose that players create/play them in the first place.
If you choose to make a UMS like that, please do go ahead. It would definitely not be considered SC2 melee, however, and any comparison between SC2 melee and it can never be made.
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EPT
