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Map Data:
-152x152 playable
-12 expansions
-1 Xel'Naga Tower
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Ye, I know, another Ice map(woohoo!). Deal with it.
Anyway, the map is a simple blend of 2 ideas used in previous 4-player maps:
1) the secluded expansions which are vulnerable by air, seen also in Vicious
2) the somewhat forward second option for a third base, as seen on Fractured Glacier.
The far option for a 3rd is rounded out by rock towers, which help cover defense by ground, but encourages airborne harassment. The forward third isn't all that forward exactly, but is still close to the natural, which should keep it as a viable expansion no matter the matchup. There's also some destructible Ice, to help create a decent choke point. In any case, the whole point of this map is to give variety between spawn points, so the expansion patterns had to be different in either direction, unlike many past maps. So, there it is.
+ Show Spoiler [Pictures! - old!] +
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Ohh, I really like this one. Big fan of the complicated Terrain. I like maps that make you think which attack path to take.
Edit: Only thing I really don't like is a random token tower in the middle of the map, it really doesn't add a lot.
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Middle looks way too choked. Could be me, but the mains looks a little small. Expos work but are really cluttered. Doesn't seem like there's much room to work with when maneuvering an army around the map. You could probably remove the expo against the main and add some sort of path to the third so its a 12 base map.
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I really don't like how centralized the defensive position is for 3 bases, more so the low ground 3rd. But, the map is as it is, I think it wouldn't be worth the effort to overhaul. I kind of like it, but I have reservations along the lings of what monitor pointed out. I like the tower and the high ground in the middle. 
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United States10334 Posts
KATRINA IS THAT YOU?! MY BELOVED KATRINA?!
drats it isnt. but a very solid map regardless. though id rather you move the third mineral lines closer to the ramps.
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On January 22 2013 04:24 monitor wrote:
Middle looks way too choked. Could be me, but the mains looks a little small. Expos work but are really cluttered. Doesn't seem like there's much room to work with when maneuvering an army around the map. You could probably remove the expo against the main and add some sort of path to the third so its a 12 base map. What's wrong with a choked middle? That's exactly the kind of risk/reward ratio you want for attack paths, the middle is of course the fastest route to the enemy but also the most chocked one so it can be easily held with say a couple of tanks, this forces you to consider to go around it.
If the expo against the main is removed and you don't spawn cross you're expanding awfully close to your opponent even if you don't want to, say being Zerg.
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I think it could be a bit less chokey, but that's a personal preference.
As with a lot of 4p maps I think close spawns could be an issue. The 3rd of the CW player is not very far from the CCW player's nat at all. Looks like about 50-60 squares.
Map is still pretty solid. I like the expansion pattern/options in and of themselves (i.e. if it was a 1 player map or cross-spawn only), just not when compared to the other spawns (if that makes any sense).
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On January 22 2013 05:40 SiskosGoatee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 04:24 monitor wrote:
Middle looks way too choked. Could be me, but the mains looks a little small. Expos work but are really cluttered. Doesn't seem like there's much room to work with when maneuvering an army around the map. You could probably remove the expo against the main and add some sort of path to the third so its a 12 base map. What's wrong with a choked middle? That's exactly the kind of risk/reward ratio you want for attack paths, the middle is of course the fastest route to the enemy but also the most chocked one so it can be easily held with say a couple of tanks, this forces you to consider to go around it. If the expo against the main is removed and you don't spawn cross you're expanding awfully close to your opponent even if you don't want to, say being Zerg.
The middle path is only the fastest in cross, which is only 1/3 of the time. But that's beside the point. I'm saying the whole map is really choked and especially the middle. There doesn't seem to be a location where z can surround easily or T to spread out bio against protoss. Going around the middle doesn't help because it also seems very choked. I'd just prefer some open space in the mid for large scale battles (despite only happening occasionally). I suppose its cool that you can block it with a few tanks but not sure that style works for making maps.
I meant to basically make it a standard 12 base map by adding another entrance to the third so both players could expand away.
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Where the layout and the maps middle is over awesome, I am going to have to agree with monitor. You're going to need to find a way to make the middle and a few side paths a bit more open while keeping the necessary chokes in place. Otherwise, Z is at quite the disadvantage.
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On January 22 2013 06:53 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 05:40 SiskosGoatee wrote:On January 22 2013 04:24 monitor wrote:
Middle looks way too choked. Could be me, but the mains looks a little small. Expos work but are really cluttered. Doesn't seem like there's much room to work with when maneuvering an army around the map. You could probably remove the expo against the main and add some sort of path to the third so its a 12 base map. What's wrong with a choked middle? That's exactly the kind of risk/reward ratio you want for attack paths, the middle is of course the fastest route to the enemy but also the most chocked one so it can be easily held with say a couple of tanks, this forces you to consider to go around it. If the expo against the main is removed and you don't spawn cross you're expanding awfully close to your opponent even if you don't want to, say being Zerg. The middle path is only the fastest in cross, which is only 1/3 of the time. But that's beside the point. I'm saying the whole map is really choked and especially the middle. There doesn't seem to be a location where z can surround easily or T to spread out bio against protoss. Going around the middle doesn't help because it also seems very choked. I'd just prefer some open space in the mid for large scale battles (despite only happening occasionally). I suppose its cool that you can block it with a few tanks but not sure that style works for making maps. I meant to basically make it a standard 12 base map by adding another entrance to the third so both players could expand away. It's a HotS map, Zerg has no difficulties with chokes in HotS whatsoever.
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I haven't played that much HOTS, but I find that a little hard to believe. I know Zerg isn't as affected by chokes in HOTS, but "no difficulties", really? So they don't use zerglings, roaches, hydras, or ultralisks anymore? Cuz I'm pretty sure all of those get owned by chokes. Hydras to a slightly lesser extent than the others, but they still don't like chokes in most situations, esp. when the opponent has splash.
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Interesting map
Love the rocks that fall over
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On January 22 2013 09:54 Fatam wrote:
I haven't played that much HOTS, but I find that a little hard to believe. I know Zerg isn't as affected by chokes in HOTS, but "no difficulties", really? So they don't use zerglings, roaches, hydras, or ultralisks anymore? Cuz I'm pretty sure all of those get owned by chokes. Hydras to a slightly lesser extent than the others, but they still don't like chokes in most situations, esp. when the opponent has splash. You can pretty much crash into a choke with ultras without a need for a flank if you spam that delicious green cloud over it. It makes other units as melee as your ultra. Which is also why I'm not sure if I like it because proper flanking has a higher skill ceiling than spamming green clouds.
But hey, when people say they want a 'high skill ceiling and a hard game', they're actually just lying to themselves. The same people who say SC2 is ezmode because Stalkers don't derp like Goons say ultralisks are useless and bad because they derp and should be able to step over Zerglings.
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On January 22 2013 17:35 SiskosGoatee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:54 Fatam wrote:
I haven't played that much HOTS, but I find that a little hard to believe. I know Zerg isn't as affected by chokes in HOTS, but "no difficulties", really? So they don't use zerglings, roaches, hydras, or ultralisks anymore? Cuz I'm pretty sure all of those get owned by chokes. Hydras to a slightly lesser extent than the others, but they still don't like chokes in most situations, esp. when the opponent has splash. You can pretty much crash into a choke with ultras without a need for a flank if you spam that delicious green cloud over it. It makes other units as melee as your ultra. Which is also why I'm not sure if I like it because proper flanking has a higher skill ceiling than spamming green clouds. But hey, when people say they want a 'high skill ceiling and a hard game', they're actually just lying to themselves. The same people who say SC2 is ezmode because Stalkers don't derp like Goons say ultralisks are useless and bad because they derp and should be able to step over Zerglings.
You are not considering the early and mid game when Ultras and Vipers are not available, and the timing pushes that other races can use against Zerg. And, correct me if I am wrong, but ranged units outside of the cloud will still be effective. I am mainly thinking of Siege Tanks and Colossi.
I am not sure what you mean by your second paragraph. What people are you talking about, specifically?
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Got a bit of a change.
+ Show Spoiler [before] +
+ Show Spoiler [after] +
The primary change is a more open center area, but the area just outside the natural is a bit more open, as well - the ramps opposite the natural's were pushed back slightly.
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I like the changes, good work!
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On January 24 2013 15:52 eTcetRa wrote:
I like the changes, good work!
Thanks
Now that the changes are made, I'll be re-uploading it as DF Cyclone, just for consistency. Since BNet is down atm though, it'll be a short while.
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Really like the changes, but I just noticed that the mains are incredibly small. Additionally, the natural gases are in a bit too much of an awkward position for zerg to scout well with an OL, which is important for pvz. Using up some of that dead space and rearranging things such as this might help: + Show Spoiler +
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On January 22 2013 04:22 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Ohh, I really like this one. Big fan of the complicated Terrain. I like maps that make you think which attack path to take.
Edit: Only thing I really don't like is a random token tower in the middle of the map, it really doesn't add a lot.
You can't call it random -- it has been purposely placed in the centre. I think what you were trying to say, is that it was placed there just for the sake of having a Xel'Naga Watch Tower. Though, it's not completely useless as it can still spot pushes crossing the centre, thereby serving it's purpose.
+ Show Spoiler +Sheesh, people these days use words without really knowing how to use them.
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I think the changes to the main and natural that Timetwister suggests are probably a good idea. I'd like to see that happen :D
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Timetwister +1. The middle now seems to be really interesting in terms of positioning, as one is able to vary attack/defense path, flanking and so on.
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Good changes; agree with timetwister's suggestion.
On January 24 2013 18:20 Unshapely wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 04:22 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Ohh, I really like this one. Big fan of the complicated Terrain. I like maps that make you think which attack path to take.
Edit: Only thing I really don't like is a random token tower in the middle of the map, it really doesn't add a lot. You can't call it random -- it has been purposely placed in the centre. I think what you were trying to say, is that it was placed there just for the sake of having a Xel'Naga Watch Tower. Though, it's not completely useless as it can still spot pushes crossing the centre, thereby serving it's purpose. + Show Spoiler +Sheesh, people these days use words without really knowing how to use them.
Indeed, in fact the tower on this map is way more active than most maps. It's very important! that is also lets you see the high ground pods. As a protoss this makes me excited to use blink around there, but it also lets roaches shoot tanks, etc.
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Well, I've encountered an interesting new problem with publishing, something about variant definitions. Anyway, here's the latest version, once I can publish it anyways:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Alright, publishing problem cleared! Now published as DF Cyclone.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/E1ZyZpJ.jpg)
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