UNNERFEDPlay StarCraft 2. Overpowered. Unnerfed. Your Favorites. All at once. Did your favorite unit get nerfed? Do you miss ye olden days when your race was overpowered? MISS NO LONGER, FRIENDS! Your days of pining for patches of yore are over. This mod unnerfs every unit, buildings, research, ability, upgrade, blarhigioejgiowjad... you name it. It's not nerfed. Is it balanced? Hell no! But you get to play with your race's units when they were at their most powerful. Go kick some ass. THIS IS UNNERFED.
THE KICK ASS GOALFueling the UNNERFING is the goal to be OVERPOWERED and DESTROY! The goal of this mod is the complete opposite of OneGoal's - UNBALANCED, UNNERFED MELEE, SMACKING, SMASHING, FIERY DEATH-WIELDING, KILLING MACHINE BLAST, ACIDIC DEATHS, YEEEEEEAH! We are the anti-balance. We are Vanilla StarCraft 2.
Tiny Personal RantI found a soapbox, and I stand on it for a few sentences. + Show Spoiler +
The game has undergone some pretty awesome changes, and this mod will serve as testament to how far Blizzard and the community has come in the last few years. Sometimes though, I think it gets too damn serious and doom-and-gloom. For one second, I would like to extinguish some elitism, clear the room full of farts, and just have a hell of a time.
THE MAPS OF GOODNESSOld, good, classic, chaotic. Surely going to create some interesting play! Blistering Sands Delta Quadrant Desert Oasis Jungle Basin Lost Temple Scrap Station Steppes of War The Shattered Temple
UNLEASH THE UNNERFINGDownload the mod, maps, and publish your own! Instructions included in the box. + Show Spoiler +
The mod and all of the map pool that is currently on the NA server because I am having trouble distributing the mod to the EU and SEA regions. The only rules to follow are: 1) give me at least some credit , 2) read the instructions before publishing, and 3) have as much fun as possible.
Modern, Unpublished Maps These maps are not published due to me not having enough document space. I saved these maps with all of the Map Info, Arcade Info, and Dependencies for these maps so all you have to do is open them up in the Editor and publish the map! + Show Spoiler +
Let me know if there are any issues with downloading the links. If Dropbox is not a good platform, I have a backup plan. Also, if you publish any of these maps or your own, I request that you e-mail me at greycraft@live.com to tell me what you uploaded. This is merely a request. I'm curious about how many people are going to be downloading it, using it, etc. Have fun!
Mothership: Increased acceleration to 1.3125. Increased shields to 400. Increased life to 400. Increased number of shots fired to 8. Decreased supply cost to 6. Decreased build time to 120. Decreased deceleration to 0. Decreased Vortex cost to 75. Increased Vortex radius to 3.
Void Ray: Decreased cost to 200 minerals and 150 gas. Increased armor to 1. Increased damage level 2 to 10 (+15 armored). Flux Vanes added to Fleet Beacon. Increased weapon range to 1.
Colossus: Increased damage to 23.
Immortal: Build time decreased to 40.
Dark Templar: Removed light armor type.
High Templar: Psi Storm radius increased to 2. Khaydarin Amulet added to Templar Archives. Removed light armor type.
Sentry: Damage increased to 8.
Stalker: Reduced Blink research time to 110. Upgrade damage changed to +1 (+1 armored). Increased damage to 10 (+6 armored).
Zealot: Increased shields to 60. Decreased build time to 33. Decreased warp in time to 23.
Nexus: Chono Boost duration increased to 30.
Pylon: Increased Pylon power radius to 7.5.
Cybernetics Core: Warp Gate research time decreased to 60 seconds.
Forge: Build time decreased to 35 seconds. Increased life to 550. Increased shields to 550.
Dark Shrine: Build time decreased to 80 seconds. Cost decreased to 100 minerals and 200 gas.
Reaper: Increased damage done by D-8 charges to 40. Build time decreased to 30. Nitro Packs no longer require a Factory.
Ghost: Increased EMP radius to 3. Changed Snipe damage to 45.
Hellion: Increased Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade to 10.
Siege Tank Increased siege mode damage to 60. Removed bonus damage to armored. Siege Tank upgrade damage changed to +5 vs all.
Thor: Increased anti-air damage to 10 (+6 light). Increased ground damage to 45. 250mm Strike Cannons no longer require an upgrade. Removed energy cost of 250mm Strike Cannons. Added 45 second cooldown to 250mm Strike Cannons. Removed Thor energy.
Viking: Increased ground damage to 14.
Medivac: Increased acceleration to 2.315. Increased speed to 2.75.
Raven: Increased Seeker Missile Range to 9. Increased Seeker Missile splash radius to 2.4. Seeker Missile no longer requires an upgrade.
Battlecruiser: Increased ground damage to 10.
Barracks: Stim Pack research time decreased to 140. Removed Concussive Shells from Tech Lab. Nitro Packs research time decreased to 90. Decreased Barracks build time to 60. Barracks no longer require anything to build.
Bunker: Decreased build time to 30. Increased Salvage refund to 100%.
Factory: Removed 250mm Strike Cannons from Tech Lab. Decreased build time to 60 seconds.
Starport: Removed Seeker Missile button from Tech Lab.
Roach: Decreased supply cost to 1. Increased burrow move speed to 2. Increased armor to 2. Increased range to 4.
Hydralisk: Decreased delay between attacks to .75. Increased life to 90.
Infestor: Increased burrow move speed to 1.5. Increased life to 120. Increased speed to 2.5. Neural Parasite no longer requires an upgrade. Increased Neural Parasite range to 9. Decreased cost of Neural Parasite to 50. Increased Fungal Growth range to 9.
Ultralisk: Increased life to 600. Removed bonus damage to armored. Increased damage to 35 (+5 structure). Added Anabolic Synthesis to the Ultralisk Cavern.
Infested Terran: Increased damage to 8. Increased speed to 1.5.
Nydus Worm: Decreased build time to 10.
Overlord: Decreased Pneumatized Carapace research cost to 50 minerals and 50 gas.
Overseer: Decreased energy cost of Contaminate to 75.
Brood Lord: Increased damage to 25. Increased life to 275. Increased armor to 2. Increased weapon upgrade bonus to 3.
Spine Crawler: Decreased root time to 6. Decreased attack period to 1.6.
Lair/Hive: Decreased Burrow research time to 50. Decreased Burrow research cost to 50 minerals and 50 gas.
Infestation Pit: Removed Neural Parasite button.
DAS REPLAYSend me replays of YOU kicking ass! Played the freaking coolest game of UNNERFED ever? E-mail your replay to me at greycraft@live.com, and we'll put that beast up on the YouTube - maybe with someone's voice during the video that talks about how awesome everything is.
Siege Tank Increased damage to 60, removed bonus vs armored.
Infestor: Added "frenzy" ability
Overseer: Added "spawn infested terran" ability
Corrupter: Added "contaminate" ability (disables all buildings, including e.g. PF)
Also, this actually looks way more fun to play than the current balance. The early game TvZ issues that existed many patches ago actually might not be a problem anymore with range 3 roaches, range 4 queens, and the better/larger maps. Hard to say whether the new queens, better zerg players, and larger maps could handle 2 rax scv/marine allins... but I bet 5 rax reaper wouldn't be nearly as good with the roach/queen range increases.
Thanks for the note. I didn't see that! Taking a note of it and will make sure that it makes it out in the next iteration... weekend will be here, and there will be uploading galore.
If anyone else spots something missing, let me know!
Oh, dear. It seems there are many fan favorites coming out that I should have included. Haha, I will see if I can get that one going soon. I'm going to be out of spots for uploading!
Yup, just go to the Arcade and search for "unnerfed." It should just be these. I'd be surprised if anyone else is using that word.
Also, can you implement these changes on newer maps like Daybreak, Cloud Kingdom, Metropolis, Antiga, etc? The old maps really do suck (more so than the unit stats imo)
Yes, if I get enough feedback that this pool is just trash and no one likes it, I'll scrap it for newer maps that people prefer. For now though, I wanted to feel some nostalgia.
Again, it'll be up to everybody else once they've played. Bed time for now. Will make the necessary fixes over the next few days and keep up with the thread daily. Kick ass and take names, all.
On another note, this could be (relatively) balanced? The amount of imba seems sort of even...... Scratch my idea for Jungle Basin I'd love to try this out on Cloud or something.
The mod should include beta patches, k10forgotten. If you see something I have missed or should include, let me know so I can look into it.
Yeah, I'd love to see how it all plays out, Skitz. Even though I was just really bad at the game, SC2 just felt a lot more aggressive when it first came out to me. I kind of miss that sometimes.
as far as i remember the thor was the best when it didn't have energy at all, and it was just a cooldown to use the cannon. that's at least when i played mass thors vs protoss (at high masters level), and it was incredibly powerful with marine support since you couldn't suffer from feedback and you could simply walk on immortals with the cannon!
Back when colossi did more damage, they also had much MUCH lower rate of fire. You cant "unnerf" half of the unit while leaving its buffs in place, the ones that came to change the unit at the same time as its nerfs
Click individual patches and read them, then you can unnerf literally EVERYTHING. I think you are genius bringing up this concept, but I have to say that this work is still fairly incomplete.
I have wanted this for a while, can we get some tournament maps done with this idea back to retail.
Personally I would like to see Daybreak Cloud Kingdom Tal Darim Altar Shakuras Plateau Entombed Valley Arkanoid Ohana Metropolis
If you can get this set, I would be willing to run a tournament on it on my twitch channel and have some kind of prize pool (probably about $100). Which might be cool to advertise you as a map maker, just saying...
PM me here, or on twitch (twitch.tv/tumescentpie), or twitter (@tumescentpie) or email me tumescentpie@gmail.com when/if you complete these maps.
Yeah, game of power spikes. Screw "Oh I got xyxyx research done, now my army is about 25% more effective" I would love the game to go back to "I got 1 tank with siegemode, you lost"
I'm like 50% convinced that zerg is going to be the most OP because roaches, 40% certain terran is OP because marines, bunkers, and seige tanks (oh my!), and 10% certain toss is OP because Skill Rays.
Possible bug report - not sure if it's on my end or not.
3 out of 5 games as P on Steppes of War have caused SC2 to become unresponsive around the 3:18-3:30 mark. None of the replays get saved when it locks up, so I can't see exactly what was happening elsewhere on the map, but I can access two of the score screens to see the build orders. My build seems to be identical in the games which crashed, but was slightly different in the games which proceeded normally. I'll try to record some VODs and follow up if I see any patterns emerging.
On December 21 2012 01:13 Cyro wrote: ^Theres an all in for current patch that hits with 11 marines and 9 scvs long before warpgate is done
Hmm I wonder if with the quick zealot build time, it might just be worth it to just blind counter this as you can always attack with said zealots if he's playing defensively.
Poll: What is your least favorite map in the pool?
Typhon Peaks (8)
50%
The Shattered Temple (3)
19%
Delta Quadrant (2)
13%
Steppes of War (2)
13%
Scrap Station (1)
6%
16 total votes
Your vote: What is your least favorite map in the pool?
(Vote): Delta Quadrant (Vote): Scrap Station (Vote): Steppes of War (Vote): The Shattered Temple (Vote): Typhon Peaks
Vote in this poll to let me know if there are any maps that should be removed from the pool. The least favorite will be removed. After I have gone through all of the threads and found all other map suggestions, I will use another poll to decide what will replace the losing map.
I want everyone to know that I am closely watching this thread and Reddit. I am taking notes on feedback and things missing.
As for not changing the attack speed to the Thor and Colossus after I have increased the damage, I would request that you reread the goal of the mod.
Is anyone else having problems with Steppes of War? If it is consistently breaking, I will take it down.
Another thing I want to note is that the mod is UNLOCKED and PUBLIC. Use it however you want. Upload it however you want. It'd be cool if you gave me credit if you do.
I have two possible routes for publishing on EU and SEA. I will either just post a public link to the mod file and allow people to download and upload at their own pace which might get chaotic or try to find some volunteers. I will have that figured out by the end of next week.
As for not changing the attack speed to the Thor and Colossus after I have increased the damage, I would request that you reread the goal of the mod.
Colossus was changed from a very slow attack speed that one shots marines to an averageish attack speed that takes two hits to kill marines. You cant remove half of the changes and leave the other half intact, it doesnt make sense. You cant make tempest do bonus damage vs air massive in the same patch you remove its air attack.
As for not changing the attack speed to the Thor and Colossus after I have increased the damage, I would request that you reread the goal of the mod.
Colossus was changed from a very slow attack speed that one shots marines to an averageish attack speed that takes two hits to kill marines. You cant remove half of the changes and leave the other half intact, it doesnt make sense. You cant make tempest do bonus damage vs air massive in the same patch you remove its air attack.
This mod is basically "start from the beta, and then start applying balance patches but ignore everything that's a nerf" and I think it's hilarious.
Can we start a list of the things that the OP forgot, to ensure that the game is as OP as possible? =D
I'll start:
Seige Tanks: -Seige tank damage changed from 35 (+15 vs armoured) to 60 vs all (changed in patch 11 of WOL beta) -Seige tank upgrade damage changed from +3 (+2 vs armoured) to +5 vs all (changed in patch 1.1.0)
Stalker: -Stalker upgrade damage changed from +1 to +1 (+1 vs armoured) (changed in patch 6 of WOL beta) -Stalker bonus damage vs armoured increased to +6 (also changed in patch 6 of WOL beta)
Edit: Also Thors without energy (cooldown based strike cannon) was probably the most OP version.
On December 21 2012 06:33 Xarayezona wrote: Is it just me or did anyone else remember a time when Void Rays had three levels of charging?
Also didn't Ultralisks have a special Ram attack that did 75+splash to buildings?
Voidrays go "standard attack" -> "first level of charge" -> "second level of charge". Even has an animation for dat prismatic beam, goes from 1 beam to 2 to 3. So yes, it's kinda like having three levels... I suppose...
Ultralisks did have "Ram" ability but they found it actually did less damage to buildings than the scythe attack (it was slower and did not do splash damage).
I have gotten a PM from a person who might be able to upload to EU and SEA for me. Once work is done, I will be posting on some forums to try to recruit some people to help me publish. If that doesn't work out, I'm going to put it up on Dropbox for whoever.
On December 21 2012 07:24 Quasimoto3000 wrote: What if... miraculously all of the unnerfs combined end up making a perfectly balanced game?
You just blew my mind...
It's so funny that it could actually be partially possible with some units, considering the races (terran mostly) were balanced on those tiny ass maps of the past :3
On December 21 2012 07:24 Quasimoto3000 wrote: What if... miraculously all of the unnerfs combined end up making a perfectly balanced game?
You just blew my mind...
It's so funny that it could actually be partially possible with some units, considering the races (terran mostly) were balanced on those tiny ass maps of the past :3
That's true, this could actually be what the game needs and hell I want to try it!
On December 21 2012 07:24 Quasimoto3000 wrote: What if... miraculously all of the unnerfs combined end up making a perfectly balanced game?
You just blew my mind...
It's so funny that it could actually be partially possible with some units, considering the races (terran mostly) were balanced on those tiny ass maps of the past :3
Screw those OP maps, Lets Bring TalDarim Alter and WhirlWind into this pool and watch the fireworks :D
While we're at it, Throw Widow Mines, Vipers, and Tempests into here just for $#@Ts and giggles
I was just this week thinking a bout wanting to see pro's play with old patches with the knowledge of today. Wondering what would still be considered op.
Getting into the Editor. I should be able to push out a few fixes over the next few days (maybe tonight if I am speedy :D:D:D). I will also spend tonight and a few more evenings finding a crew for publishing on EU and SEA.
Don't know if it's already been reported or not, but Marauders don't start with concussive (at least on the Shattered temple map they don't, that's the only version we tried though).
As for not changing the attack speed to the Thor and Colossus after I have increased the damage, I would request that you reread the goal of the mod.
Colossus was changed from a very slow attack speed that one shots marines to an averageish attack speed that takes two hits to kill marines. You cant remove half of the changes and leave the other half intact, it doesnt make sense. You cant make tempest do bonus damage vs air massive in the same patch you remove its air attack.
This mod is basically "start from the beta, and then start applying balance patches but ignore everything that's a nerf" and I think it's hilarious.
so does that mean that the following thor changes:
Thor: 255mm strike cannon now has a cooldown. removed energy from thor. removed energy cost from 255mm strike cannon.
should be interpreted as:
Thor: removed energy from thor. removed energy cost from 255mm strike cannon.
thus the most powerful version of thor available from ignoring nerfs is actually: strike cannon cost no energy and has a 0-second cooldown.
As for not changing the attack speed to the Thor and Colossus after I have increased the damage, I would request that you reread the goal of the mod.
Colossus was changed from a very slow attack speed that one shots marines to an averageish attack speed that takes two hits to kill marines. You cant remove half of the changes and leave the other half intact, it doesnt make sense. You cant make tempest do bonus damage vs air massive in the same patch you remove its air attack.
This mod is basically "start from the beta, and then start applying balance patches but ignore everything that's a nerf" and I think it's hilarious.
so does that mean that the following thor changes:
Thor: 255mm strike cannon now has a cooldown. removed energy from thor. removed energy cost from 255mm strike cannon.
should be interpreted as:
Thor: removed energy from thor. removed energy cost from 255mm strike cannon.
thus the most powerful version of thor available from ignoring nerfs is actually: strike cannon cost no energy and has a 0-second cooldown.
Patch 1.1: Uploaded to NA server. I have someone awesome who should be uploading to EU and SEA within the next day! Thor: Removed energy cost of 250mm Strike Cannons. Added 45 second cooldown to 250mm Strike Cannons. Removed Thor energy.
Siege Tank: Increased Siege Mode damage to 60. Removed bonus damage to armored. Siege Tank upgrade damage changed to +5 vs all.
Roach: Fixed the supply cost for burrowed roaches.
Infestor: Increased Neural Parasite range to 9. Could not find a patch that allowed for burrowed Neural Parasite.
Void Ray: Increased weapon range to 7.
Sentry: Could not find a patch that changed +light damage.
Stalker: Upgrade damage changed from +1 to +1 (+1 armored). Reviewed 8 (+6 armored) versus 10 (+4 armored). Kept the damage at 10 +4. Let me know if you think this is a nerf. Redacting previous statement. (said in the voice of Artosis screaming "NESTEA") THIS IS UNNERFED!!! Increased damage to 10 (+6 armored).
Ultralisk: Reviewed Ram weapon. Easier to do… Increased damage to 35 (+5 structure). Fixed learn requirement on Anabolic Synthesis.
Corrupter: Could not find a patch that mentioned Contaminate ability (disables all buildings, including e.g. PF).
Removed Typhon Peaks.
Uploaded Blistering Sands to the map pool.
Uploaded Desert Oasis to the map pool.
Uploaded Jungle Basin to the map pool.
Updated patch notes on original post.
What's Up Next? Marauder Fix Concussive Shells so that it no longer requires an upgrade.
Infestor: Frenzy ability.
Mothership Planetcracker ability.
MULE: Mine more minerals at a gold base.
Considering (not just flat out adding because it has overlap with the Infestor… tell me if I'm crazy.) Overseer: Infested Terran ability.
Is this going to get continual patches to further "incorrect" the scales of balance in order to ensure more unexpectedly ridiculous versions of (ideally all) units, or is this just aimed at being a duplicate of SC2 before any patches? Isn't there a way to simply load an older version of the SC2 (similar to loading replays) databases in order to simply base your maps on the original statistics? To me it didn't look like the goal actually specified adding imbalance patches, so I'm not sure, because you say you want to show how far we've come, but also stressed becoming the opposite of OneGoal.
EDIT: "Void Ray: Increased weapon range to 1." should be "Void Ray: Increased weapon range by 1."
Sentry: "Could not find a patch that changed +light damage." What about it? When did it deal bonus to light? Are you thinking of this?:
Patch 11 (version 0.13.0.15250) *The damage has been decreased from 8 to 6.
1. Duplicate of SC2 before patches. 2. I do not know. 3. Maybe, I misunderstood the purpose of OneGoal. Unnerfed definitely is not intended to be the complete opposite because OneGoal does think that Blizzard does make some great balance changes. The reason why I said it was the opposite is because the mindset is different in that there is no concern for balance, tweaking, or design. Does that answer your question? I don't mean that in a rude way - I am a tad tired so I want to make sure that my reply is coherent.
EDIT to Answer ?'s: Thank you for that. Haha, remember the part where I said I was tired?
Any time you see something wonky like the Sentry damage, it is because someone mentioned it in a thread, and I looked for it. Someone said I missed them doing +light so I went and searched for it.
Ah, I see. No, they're either hoping for a change because they intend to play it (perhaps they were making it as a suggestion for an imbalance patch) or (and I'm guessing it was this, without looking back through the rest of the pages) they were just remembering the beta patch change incorrectly.
Your answer to the first question ("Duplicate of SC2 before patches") basically answers my Q3 as well as Q1. :D
would've been a more useful exercise to try out Blizzard's initial impulses for the game on a "real" map pool (ie, current GSL map pool or something) instead of just reverting the game wholesale to what it was like at release/beta
-Vortex: 75 Energy, 3.0 Radius, doesn't remove Force Fields within it, units are no longer immune for 1.5 seconds after leaving it -Cloaking Field: All units are cloaked instantly -Added: Temporal Rift -Added: Wormhole Transit -Attack: Shots fired increased to 8 -Build time 120 -6 Supply -400 Health/400 Shields -1.375 Acceleration, Deceleration 0
On December 21 2012 06:33 Xarayezona wrote: Is it just me or did anyone else remember a time when Void Rays had three levels of charging?
Also didn't Ultralisks have a special Ram attack that did 75+splash to buildings?
Voidrays go "standard attack" -> "first level of charge" -> "second level of charge". Even has an animation for dat prismatic beam, goes from 1 beam to 2 to 3. So yes, it's kinda like having three levels... I suppose...
They literally had three damage levels too.
Also, Parting makes it seems like Roaches need to be 1 Supply. I'd like to see his Immortal/Sentry all in vs 3 base 1 Supply Roach :D
-Vortex: 75 Energy, 3.0 Radius, doesn't remove Force Fields within it, units are no longer immune for 1.5 seconds after leaving it -Cloaking Field: All units are cloaked instantly -Added: Temporal Rift -Added: Wormhole Transit -Attack: Shots fired increased to 8 -Build time 120 -6 Supply -400 Health/400 Shields -1.375 Acceleration, Deceleration 0
On December 21 2012 06:33 Xarayezona wrote: Is it just me or did anyone else remember a time when Void Rays had three levels of charging?
Also didn't Ultralisks have a special Ram attack that did 75+splash to buildings?
Voidrays go "standard attack" -> "first level of charge" -> "second level of charge". Even has an animation for dat prismatic beam, goes from 1 beam to 2 to 3. So yes, it's kinda like having three levels... I suppose...
They literally had three damage levels too.
Also, Parting makes it seems like Roaches need to be 1 Supply. I'd like to see his Immortal/Sentry all in vs 3 base 1 Supply Roach :D
they only had 3range... which in retrospect was a huge buff. There would not be 50roach+ armies, if it weren't for 4range. At least, they would be less costefficient.
I think it would be a lot of fun to give Overseer Infested Terran, but I want to make sure it is community-approved. Poll, poll, poll.
I would like to hear what everyone thinks about the new additions to the map pool: Blistering Sands, Desert Oasis, and Jungle Basin. Those seemed to be the most-mentioned beta/season 1/season 2 maps in this thread and on Reddit.
DAS REPLAY Played the freaking coolest game of UNNERFED ever? E-mail your replay to me at greycraft@live.com, and we'll put that beast up on the YouTube - maybe with someone's voice during the video that talks about how awesome everything is.
Someone has brought to my attention that Chronoboost was usable on allied buildings. If team maps are uploaded, then I will be implementing this change.
So, I'm not sure what the difference is for certain things to be uploaded to custom game search list or arcade search list...This isn't really a question regarding unnerfed, as I eventually found it while browsing arcade for whatever reason..but why are some GSL maps or ISMAPs only availible via the arcade and not the custom game search list?
Just a personal annoyance I suppose...
EDIT: It can't be due to new units or changes and whatnot...SC2BW is availible via the custom game search list..I'm confused.
So, when you go into the Editor, you can choose whether it is an Arcade map or not. Say your map is Fun.SC2MAP. I believe, if you publish Fun.SC2MAP to Arcade, you will not find it in the Custom Games section. I have not personally tried to upload the same map to Custom Games and Arcade, but, in theory, I guess you could, and you would have to upload Fun.SC2MAP as two separate documents.
When a map maker has Fun.SC2MAP open, they have to go Map Info and select "Arcade Map" in the second tab which basically defines where it will appear in the game. I'm not a huge fan of how publishing works right now.
If you played the mod, how'd you like it? Leave a review with your thoughts if you play. :D:D
someone please upload this to EU. I can't wait to play this mod, I love the OPnes of units in BW and it would be interesting too see this basicly figured out game without the changes made to it 2 years ago.
Firstly, Siege Tank damage has been fixed in patch 1.1, and it is OP to the max. :D Secondly...
I have decided to release the mod and all of the map pool that is currently on the NA server because I am having trouble distributing the mod to the EU and SEA regions. The only rules to follow are: 1) give me at least some credit , 2) read the instructions before publishing, and 3) have as much fun as possible.
Let me know if there are any issues with downloading the links. If Dropbox is not a good platform, I have a backup plan. Also, if you publish any of these maps or your own, I request that you e-mail me at greycraft@live.com to tell me what you uploaded. This is merely a request. I'm curious about how many people are going to be downloading it, using it, etc. Have fun!
-Vortex: 75 Energy, 3.0 Radius, doesn't remove Force Fields within it, units are no longer immune for 1.5 seconds after leaving it -Cloaking Field: All units are cloaked instantly -Added: Temporal Rift -Added: Wormhole Transit -Attack: Shots fired increased to 8 -Build time 120 -6 Supply -400 Health/400 Shields -1.375 Acceleration, Deceleration 0
On December 21 2012 07:17 Homework wrote:
On December 21 2012 06:33 Xarayezona wrote: Is it just me or did anyone else remember a time when Void Rays had three levels of charging?
Also didn't Ultralisks have a special Ram attack that did 75+splash to buildings?
Voidrays go "standard attack" -> "first level of charge" -> "second level of charge". Even has an animation for dat prismatic beam, goes from 1 beam to 2 to 3. So yes, it's kinda like having three levels... I suppose...
They literally had three damage levels too.
Also, Parting makes it seems like Roaches need to be 1 Supply. I'd like to see his Immortal/Sentry all in vs 3 base 1 Supply Roach :D
they only had 3range... which in retrospect was a huge buff. There would not be 50roach+ armies, if it weren't for 4range. At least, they would be less costefficient.
Yeah true. But he's making it 4 range and 1 Supply I believe, which is what I meant when I made that statement. But yeah, that is definitely true, 3range/1supply Roaches probably wouldn't be massed as much!
Also, I agree with what someone else posted in this thread, in addition to the OP maps I'd really like to see some of the more modern macro maps with these changes. Who knows, maybe some of the 'imba' changes aren't so bad on the bigger/more modern macro maps?
I think it would be a lot of fun to give Overseer Infested Terran, but I want to make sure it is community-approved. Poll, poll, poll.
I would like to hear what everyone thinks about the new additions to the map pool: Blistering Sands, Desert Oasis, and Jungle Basin. Those seemed to be the most-mentioned beta/season 1/season 2 maps in this thread and on Reddit.
DAS REPLAY Played the freaking coolest game of UNNERFED ever? E-mail your replay to me at greycraft@live.com, and we'll put that beast up on the YouTube - maybe with someone's voice during the video that talks about how awesome everything is.
yea, lets give one of the best lategame tools to A UNIT THAT DOESNT COST SUPPLY
Ahh, I finally got to play a match today! Enjoyed the hell out of it. Played as a Terran versus a Protoss on Jungle Basin. I'm not that great of a player, but I had an awesome time. Those tanks!
I wanted to address a few requests, issues, and concerns.
Alpha SC2: I would like to avoid changing units back to their alpha states. Personally, I feel like the design of a unit was nailed by beta and ended up just being tuned with patches since then. Alpha contained some pretty crazy stuff. My original intention has always been to revert patch nerfs seen throughout beta and the live game. This is the community's mod as far as I am concerned though so it might just be changed on a case by case basis. Right now, the largest request is to put the Immortal in the Gateway/Warp Gate.
Bugs: I am not going to put bugs into the mod. I see no point. They were glitches and fixed - these are not nerfs. It was something broken.
Finding People to Play With: Still trying to figure this one out! Establishing an official chat channel will probably be the first step.
Map Pool: My intention with the current map pool is to use beta/season 1/season 2 map favorites. These maps tended to be smaller.Also, I feel like the older maps created more opportunities for aggression. I wanted to have a bit of nostalgia. The next step that I might take is pre-loading the dependencies and map info for people onto request maps and putting it on Dropbox so that people can just upload it whenever they want. The only reason why I do not publish them myself is because I am out of publishing spots (maximum 20 documents, other spots filled by my other mod). I would like to start gathering feedback about interest in team maps and whether there is any interest. If so I will consult the community about maps before publishing and what bracket (2's, 3's, 4's).
Mod Distribution: I am still working on the best way to distribute the mod. Right now everything is publicly hosted on Dropbox and can be found using the links in the original post. Take this mod and use it however you want. Again, I request that you toss a little credit my way (Just put "Mod created by Grey" in the Map Info) if you don't mind but do what you want. Create something awesome and make the community happy.
Replays: If you played a game of Unnerfed you're proud of, send it to me at greycraft@live.com! I would like to post and host.
Reviews: If you are playing the mod, leave me some feedback in the Arcade in the Reviews section. Stars and/or a textual review both work. Combined with feedback I get from Reddit and this thread, I will be shaping the map pool until I get a majority of players to their happy place (I will not personally be handling the happy ending).
You Missed..., Grey.: I'm certain there are one or two things that I have missed. Whenever you tell me I missed something, reply telling me what I missed and provide a link to the patch/patch notes in your post. It makes it easier for me to confirm that it is a necessary change for the mod.
If I have not replied to you and you would like to receive a reply, a PM on TL is the best way to get a hold of me. Thank you all for playing the mod. It has been a pleasure to get all of the positive replies about how much fun everyone is having. Kind of an early Christmas present for me. :D
As soon as i get my internet back i will publish the full map pool and keep it updated as you have it on US servers.. im just very excited about this idea..
i think blizzard has gone haywire with the nerfs instead buffing the other units and thats what i hope we will keep true..
maybe a little too much with 120hp marines but maybe 80dmg fungal hehe.. Happy Christmas anyway!
Thor Added 45 second cooldown to 250mm Strike Cannons.
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Mothership Planetcracker ability.
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these are not consistent with
On December 22 2012 20:02 greycraft wrote: ...
My original intention has always been to revert patch nerfs seen throughout beta and the live game.
...
1. the added 45 second cooldown to 250mm strike cannon is a nerf, whether or not it was coupled with other buffs intended to offset that nerf into a net buff is irrelevant, that single change is still a strict nerf.
2. planetcracker was an alpha ability, it was never in the beta or in the live game, why is it added here?
My original intention has always been to revert patch nerfs seen throughout beta and the live game.
...
1. the added 45 second cooldown to 250mm strike cannon is a nerf, whether or not it was coupled with other buffs intended to offset that nerf into a net buff is irrelevant, that single change is still a strict nerf.
2. planetcracker was an alpha ability, it was never in the beta or in the live game, why is it added here?
Considering the fact that Thors could be hard-countered with a single Feedback or EMP, I'd say it's a buff.
My original intention has always been to revert patch nerfs seen throughout beta and the live game.
...
1. the added 45 second cooldown to 250mm strike cannon is a nerf, whether or not it was coupled with other buffs intended to offset that nerf into a net buff is irrelevant, that single change is still a strict nerf.
2. planetcracker was an alpha ability, it was never in the beta or in the live game, why is it added here?
Thor with a 50 second cooldown on 250mm Strike Cannons is a buff. The Thor starts with 50 energy, right? Its energy regeneration rate is around .5. This means the first time you can use 250mm Strike Cannons is around 200 seconds after the Thor is out. This is more than 50 seconds. After you use it, you will have to wait about another 5 minutes to use it again. These numbers are based on real time and not game time. Also, Feedback is something to consider. No energy means you cannot use Feedback on a Thor. All of the latter sound like a buff to me.
If the community wants the Planetcracker ability, they will get it. Blizzard had some really questionable stuff in alpha. I've used Planetcracker. Because it makes the Mothership stationary, it actually makes it fairly easy to snipe down. The only way I can see it being used okay is to fend off aggressive players or Vortex + moving over the Vortex and perfectly timing the ability which takes time to charge. Again, I'll do what everyone else wants because that is what is best.
I think it would be a lot of fun to give Overseer Infested Terran, but I want to make sure it is community-approved. Poll, poll, poll.
I would like to hear what everyone thinks about the new additions to the map pool: Blistering Sands, Desert Oasis, and Jungle Basin. Those seemed to be the most-mentioned beta/season 1/season 2 maps in this thread and on Reddit.
DAS REPLAY Played the freaking coolest game of UNNERFED ever? E-mail your replay to me at greycraft@live.com, and we'll put that beast up on the YouTube - maybe with someone's voice during the video that talks about how awesome everything is.
yea, lets give one of the best lategame tools to A UNIT THAT DOESNT COST SUPPLY
Who needs lategame when you have 60 HP SCVs and super colossi? Wait.... we also have 4 range 1 supply roaches. Sweeeeet
Definitely remove Lost Temple and Steppes of War in my opinion. I know you're gunning for old maps and that things would be imbalanced regardless of maps, but at least give some semblance of effort of balance when possible (such as with maps).
I never quite figured out what exactly was wrong [balance-wise] with Desert Oasis (that or I forgot— very likely), aside from the fact that it was an unlikeable map for most people. I know the natural was really exposed, but I don't think that was as big an issue for people at the time. Regardless, I think that shouldn't be there either.
Put in Kulas Ravine and Xel'Naga caverns — both really old maps and pretty good.
Decreased Burrow research cost to 50 minerals and 50 gas.
Wow, I don't even remember this.
Haha, those infestor changes look so OP considering the way the spell mechanics were changed during the nerfs/buffs. Looks like you forgot to make it infinite duration, though?
Is the ultralisk splash-around-target bug not in here? It doesn't seem to be. Is that intentional? Makes sense for it to be intentional (not just because it was strong).
Same thing with the "cancelling a larva doesn't kill it" change. Except I think this change is so game-breaking, it wouldn't make this mod fun at all to play against a zerg who's abusing it.
It looks like you also forgot about roach regeneration upgrades. I'm not sure if you'd re-add organic carapace, or just make organic carapace's [buffed] effects apply to tunneling claws (not good in my opinion since it required hive). Makes sense to have tunneling claws apply the current crappier regen bonus, and then organic carapace to buff that regen even more.
There's also a bunch of other changes missing too I think, if you're starting from original public beta (i.e. patch 0) instead of after patch 1 (such as fungal growth damage, siphon spell that I can think of off the top of my head).
yea, lets give one of the best lategame tools to A UNIT THAT DOESNT COST SUPPLY
Realize that it will cost 125 energy (as far as I understand), and that it drops the egg directly under the overseer, not from afar. I don't see it being a problem at all compared to some other things like neural parasite, roach, siege tank, ghost, SCV, barracks + marine/reaper, or warpgate + gateway units + chronoboost. It pales in comparison in both power, and priority (if matches don't even get to mid game let alone past mid game, why does it matter?).
Did not know about Snipe not being fixed. Thank you for the report! It will be fixed in the next iteration. The Roach regeneration upgrades do need to be put into the next iteration.
Unless popular and demanded by lots of people, bugs will not be implemented.
If patch 0 contained a lot of alpha spells, those might just be ignored because they are, most likely, not already included in the Editor and would have to be recreated.
For the map pool, there have been lots of suggestions and requests. In the original post, I have included a list of links to the original map pool files. Because there were a few common maps that were requested, I went ahead and pre-loaded the maps with all of the Map Info, Arcade Info, and Dependencies. What this means is that they are publish-ready!
Remember to download and read the rules before publishing! Let me know if you need any help publishing by messaging me through TL or e-mail at greycraft@live.com. Enjoy, my friends.
I've played a few more games and have to say that I am having an awesome time. Not a Protoss player but that 60 second Warp Gate research is money. Reapers are so dangerous. 1 supply Roach is icing on the cake.
How is everyone feeling about the map pool? I have no reviews on Scap Station which makes me think that not one person has played on it.
Also, is anyone still interested in team games for the mod?
On December 25 2012 16:33 greycraft wrote: I've played a few more games and have to say that I am having an awesome time. Not a Protoss player but that 60 second Warp Gate research is money. Reapers are so dangerous. 1 supply Roach is icing on the cake.
How is everyone feeling about the map pool? I have no reviews on Scap Station which makes me think that not one person has played on it.
Also, is anyone still interested in team games for the mod?
I am absolutely interested in team games for this mod... with those bigger maps :D I noticed you had them up for publishing, but not actually up yet --- sadness.
If it's not a complicated process I could give 'er a go, just no idea how it works o-O
This sounds so ridiculous but amazing at the same time, is there anyway you could make it so you can use neural parasite while burrowed again? That would be sick. Really wish that was still in the game.
On December 23 2012 21:18 Xapti wrote:Same thing with the "cancelling a larva doesn't kill it" change. Except I think this change is so game-breaking, it wouldn't make this mod fun at all to play against a zerg who's abusing it.
Yes this will make 6pools very very strong and if someone was really trying to win on this map they could just 6pool every game in ZvZ.
The reason is that with hatcherys once they have 3 larvae they stop producing larvae, meaning a 6pool has a max of 6 lings produced once it's finished at first. With this mechanic I can make 2 drones so my hatch keeps on producing larvae, and then once the pool finishes cancel them and make 10 lings which is just crazy.
I've uploaded a bunch of these (including all classic maps, and a few modern ones) to SEA. Simply search Unnerfed as normal. If you'd like any other maps uploaded, PM me here and I'll do my best.
My god, blizzard has almost only balanced sc2 through nerfing. Seeing this huge list of nerfing make me sad. I realize now that current state of sc2 feels impotent
This sounds like a really fun concept. I defintely want to build an army of 120 SUPERROACHES.
On December 21 2012 16:31 greycraft wrote: Infestor: Increased Neural Parasite range to 9. Could not find a patch that allowed for burrowed Neural Parasite.
It's still missing the old fungal damage of 48 vs everything. (To be fair though, back then fungal was a projectile) I also think the strongest iteration of neural parasite was at the very start of beta where neural was non-channeling, 10 seconds duration, had 9 range, 50 mana cost, no research requirement and did not affect air units.
Corrupter: Could not find a patch that mentioned Contaminate ability (disables all buildings, including e.g. PF).
That's because the unit started with the ability in beta (which was called Corruption, but did essentially what contaminate does today) and it was never changed until beta patch 11 where it was reworked into something quite similar to what it is today. Not sure about the exact number on the old Corruption, but it completely disabled the building for its duration, including shutting down the attacks of defensive structures.
Oh, and you also forgot to include the old Roach regeneration upgrade which required Hive and gave Roaches +20 regeneration when burrowed and +5 when unborrowed.
Idk if this applied because it wasn't an actual nerf to a unit, but was the close proximity patrol (the viking flower) reverted back in this map? I absolutely loved spinning buildings around at light speed because it looked so ridiculous, but it was taken out because tvt tank wars.
I am going to start looking at team maps and uploading them to Dropbox for those interested. If those who would like to try out team games could tell me which bracket is preferred, let me know. In fact vote in the poll above! :D If you have a preference, reply with your preference and say which maps you would like for that bracket's pool.
Zain3 and insane_, thank you so much for getting those uploaded to the other regions. I can't wait to hear about people playing it. I would be interested in hearing how many more reviews you're getting in those regions. I will contact you both whenever I have pushed the next patch on NA.
Neural Parasite while burrowed, from what I have found, was a bug, and this mod does not fix or implement old bugs at the moment. Going to double-check Neural Parasite data. As for Fungal Growth, I will make sure that it has the correct damage.
Roach regeneration should make it into the next iteration. Super roaches ho!
I could not find another nerf to the Hydralisk.
Because I am choosing not to implement alpha abilities/upgrades, Timebomb and Planetcracker may not end up in the mod. This depends on my mapmaking skill limitations as well as the demand of having those in the mod. Thank you to all who are reporting missing elements in the mod. Your diligence is what drives its completion.
I can look into the Viking flower, but, if it does not largely effect gameplay or buff anything, I might save time and skip it.
Look forward to another present (pre-loaded team maps and patch 1.2) soon!
Added EMP to the list of changes that I need to make. Still shooting for updating the mod within the next week. Tweet your neighborhood-friendly casters to see if they'd be interested in hosting some games on their channel. :D
Two people I know play against each other often, and one of them streams what is often a roflstomping of the other. This could add an interesting twist :D
well im just gonna ask straight out.. do you guys feel like we should try to balance it out with buffs instead? or take another route to the nerfs? if i got it correct a lot of people think that blizzard kinda went too haywire with the nerfs without buffing the other areas..
am i wrong?
Wouldnt want this to turn into OneGoal or Starbow discussion but we have something very strong going i believe.. And the fact that you did all the work i've been working on for a long time but never got my thumb out of my ass.
Does anyone still play this? Today there was a Back to Imbaness Cup, it'd be cool to have something similar for this as well. Would anybody be interested in that sort of thing? Not that I have any cash for a prize pool.
How was the Back to Imbaness Cup? I have been away from SC2 for awhile and have not purchased HotS - no moneys. This mod should work just fine though. I don't believe there was much left to fix other than everyone's preference on the map pool.
I've not played this, haven't even heard of it tbh *blush*. Is this map added as a big arcade map or does one need to zip files into folders? I'm not good at these technicaL things
EPT
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