EPTOneGoal: A better SC2 [Project Hub] - Page 36
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
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gCgCrypto
Germany297 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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ItWhoSpeaks
United States362 Posts
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gCgCrypto
Germany297 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/a/img19/2668/lurkerhost03.jpg) (original post: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7811541332) While i think it´s risky to add any BW units (in this case Lurker), Vega´s Idea could solve a lot of issues that currently exist in HotS but also a little in OG. The current implementation of the SH, while its way better then in HotS, still is a unit that gets way way better when in huge masses, It also has this wierd gimickyness to it where it stopped working properly against strong armys. One could think the´d be good vs mech but from what i´ve seen in my games they really dont, especially with the 2supply tank. Vega´s SH would give the SH a real identity as a anti air unit that Zerg is despretly lacking imo. In HotS air armys by both Terran and Protoss are far from beatable, no matter how meny bases you are up on your oponent, and completly disregard what happened in the early and midgame (similar to Broodlord infestor but stronger) This would maby be a even better place to implement Scourages, that is more SC like. Let the SH spawn scourages instead of locusts. Like this you have very potent anti air and also a alternative to Mutas ZvZ (OG ZvZ seems even more of a mutafeast then HotS, dont take me wrong i like it but like this you could have a unit composition that is stronger then pure mutas (Muta SH) but could still be beaten with good micro (JAEDONGUUUUU) Also now with a T1 Hydra its like there never was a better moment to reimplement the Lurker. i <3 Lurker everyone <3 Lurker (eccept for Broder and Kim .... ) so yeah, would love to hear your take on this. | ||
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NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
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sunglasseson
United States145 Posts
edit - yeh wow its all just "make it like broodwar" one suggestion was probes dont auto mine and bring back single building select. k did u guys not see they make the drones auto mine AT THE START? blizzard is a casual gaming company that got lucky as HELL and because they were limited in technology, produced great games that were time consuming and skill intensive simply because thats the era they were in. BW was luck. clunky mechanics lead to high skill caps. god i want sc2 to be great but we all know its not and never will be because blizzard constantly does things that are going in the opposite direction of what we keep talking about. i also want to point out that so many people here think they want skill but really dont know what they are getting into. this era of instant gratification and false senses of accomplishment extend to the people who think they are really good and want the game to be harder so they can increase the "gap" between themselves and others without understanding they are doing well because of how easy the games mechanics are. the harder a game is, the less popular it is. if blizzard made sc2 hard, most of you would quit within the first few months and go play games like LoL. ladder anxiety exists, theres a nice search bar if you dont believe me. if blizzard could make sc2 easier they would, i assure you. for your ideas to matter at all, they cant be "make the hydra turn into a lurker", stop being stupid dustin browder has said he will never add the lurker. it cant be "in broodwar this was important" as soon as you compare broodwar they are going to instantly zone out the next and crucial aspect of your "point/idea" its the psychology of a person in dustin browders shoes. you need to be special, the idea needs to be the new, well oiled game engine era equiv of broodwars clunky unit AI leading to better game fights/balance | ||
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NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
Let's say, range 9, takes about 1 second to lob, takes about 1.5 seconds to explode, "egg" deals small radius (1-2) of AOE damage, each colossus can perhaps use three "eggs" before needing a cooldown period (maybe 8-15 seconds somewhere, so that they could possibly be used at the start but also end of a battle, or to cover a retreat). Even make it so that an exploding "egg" kills friendly "eggs" in range, so that you don't just spam them everywhere or you're shooting yourself in the foot. For the protoss, the skill would be in the placement and timing of eggs (since they have small, delayed AOE, you could chuck them behind a terran for synergy with zealot for example, or in front to delay a push). This also seems pretty good with cliff walk type stuff, if you can use ridges to allow colossi to perform raiding attacks by lobbing eggs from range with micro back across a cliff to retreat. I'm imagining that the counter play opportunities to this are good, as the defender can either split their units back from the eggs or if they're quick can focus fire the "eggs" to snipe them before they blow up. This scales well with the skill of players on both sides, but perhaps would have to be slightly weak at the lower leagues level to avoid being totally OP for really good players. | ||
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NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
On December 15 2012 07:05 ItWhoSpeaks wrote: Dark Templar -Figment Removed -Uraj Talisman added 150/150/80: Increases Speed by 20% and grants immunity to all Slows and Stuns. I play DT openings a lot in WoL, and I like the idea that the way to give them increased utility is by increasing their mobility, allowing them to remain swift and fragile, and increasingly effective with a player's ability to keep them out of the way of detection. So here's an idea... Blink upgrade also applies to DTs (Zeratul style). Getting blink with your initial DTs will cut into the number of DTs you actually have (tradeoff to make there). Getting blink later on does several things: 1. Promotes synergy with stalkers in small raiding parties 2. Encourages straight DT harassment where they blink in and take out static detection (cannons, spores, turrets) then start killing stuff. Note however that this is a large gas investment and still paper thin vs (well controlled/positioned) mobile detection, encouraging better usage/multitasking of the defending players with regards to scans/ravens/overseers/observers. The strength of this type of specialized play will also be limited by the decreased usage of Warp Gates, making warp ins on your opponents side of the map for this kind of play a bigger investment than you would think (given it is a quite high reward strategy) 3. Possibly promotes aggressive DT blinks as a solution vs widow mine/swarm host/siege tank zone pressure that is sloppy about detection (haven't played enough of HoTS or One Goal to know, but seems alright in theory) 4. It's a simple, clean design adaptation of what's already in the game. EDIT: Works thematically too I think, DT/observer creep clearing could be alright as well, DT base trading would be as powerful as both players ability to multitask, Stalker/DT vs Stalker/DT both with blink or even just Stalkers (with Blink, but obs are kinda slow) vs DT (with Blink) in PvP would be so sick, the number of reasons I can see that this makes sense is incredible. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On February 02 2013 23:51 NDDseer wrote: I play DT openings a lot in WoL, and I like the idea that the way to give them increased utility is by increasing their mobility, allowing them to remain swift and fragile, and increasingly effective with a player's ability to keep them out of the way of detection. So here's an idea... Blink upgrade also applies to DTs (Zeratul style). Getting blink with your initial DTs will cut into the number of DTs you actually have (tradeoff to make there). Getting blink later on does several things: 1. Promotes synergy with stalkers in small raiding parties 2. Encourages straight DT harassment where they blink in and take out static detection (cannons, spores, turrets) then start killing stuff. Note however that this is a large gas investment and still paper thin vs (well controlled/positioned) mobile detection, encouraging better usage/multitasking of the defending players with regards to scans/ravens/overseers/observers. The strength of this type of specialized play will also be limited by the decreased usage of Warp Gates, making warp ins on your opponents side of the map for this kind of play a bigger investment than you would think (given it is a quite high reward strategy) 3. Possibly promotes aggressive DT blinks as a solution vs widow mine/swarm host/siege tank zone pressure that is sloppy about detection (haven't played enough of HoTS or One Goal to know, but seems alright in theory) 4. It's a simple, clean design adaptation of what's already in the game. EDIT: Works thematically too I think, DT/observer creep clearing could be alright as well, DT base trading would be as powerful as both players ability to multitask, Stalker/DT vs Stalker/DT both with blink or even just Stalkers (with Blink, but obs are kinda slow) vs DT (with Blink) in PvP would be so sick, the number of reasons I can see that this makes sense is incredible. Even as a toss player, i can already tell that dts with blink sounds op as fuck. At that point, you can just mass them up and have them as your core army. With +3 atk, they already do 60 dmg, so being able to just blink up to mmm sounds terrifying. | ||
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Emuking
United States144 Posts
"a unit." It might be a good idea to look at some League of Legends champs to gain some ideas. Anyway the reason i bring this up is my patch idea for the colossus would be to make its attack animation a laser (single laser or double laser i am not sure of, i think single would work better) that is guided by the player (point A to point B). It would look something like Viktor's Death Lazer from league of legends. It allows skill on both sides, you can still dodge the laser and a person with multiple colossus can maybe create laser patterns on the ground that make it more difficult to dodge etc. This might increase the colossus range very far if a colossus with 9 range directs the laser forward rather than side to side, but thats the fun of it :D It would be really cool if you could implement this idea because there are 360 different degrees you can fire your laser and it would make colossus attack animation micro pretty sick to watch. | ||
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NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
On February 03 2013 01:39 da_head wrote: Even as a toss player, i can already tell that dts with blink sounds op as fuck. At that point, you can just mass them up and have them as your core army. With +3 atk, they already do 60 dmg, so being able to just blink up to mmm sounds terrifying. Attack the design, not the balance. And I can't see that really being a problem anyways, an aggressive blink on top of MMM -> one scan and you get absolutely destroyed, unless you are WAAAAAAAAY ahead in terms of army investment, but then it's true for anything (oh, mass colossi destroys bio....). Not to mention that although DT do a lot of damage, they are still absolutely paper thin when exposed, they are melee range so massing them past a certain point isn't really the best idea because they just get in each others way, and EMP would roll face over mass DT if used properly. What COULD be good however would be DT-blink snipes to kill ghosts, that take skill by both players (if scanned you're still going to lose them, or if there's a raven nearby, which if opponent going DT you should be doing anyways) or perhaps 1-3 DT harassment where the blink is used to escape an opponent that does not have a raven, and can pick off a couple of units for free if your anticipation skills are good/you know your opponent is going to take >2 seconds to notice and respond. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On February 03 2013 06:08 NDDseer wrote: Attack the design, not the balance. And I can't see that really being a problem anyways, an aggressive blink on top of MMM -> one scan and you get absolutely destroyed, unless you are WAAAAAAAAY ahead in terms of army investment, but then it's true for anything (oh, mass colossi destroys bio....). Not to mention that although DT do a lot of damage, they are still absolutely paper thin when exposed, they are melee range so massing them past a certain point isn't really the best idea because they just get in each others way, and EMP would roll face over mass DT if used properly. What COULD be good however would be DT-blink snipes to kill ghosts, that take skill by both players (if scanned you're still going to lose them, or if there's a raven nearby, which if opponent going DT you should be doing anyways) or perhaps 1-3 DT harassment where the blink is used to escape an opponent that does not have a raven, and can pick off a couple of units for free if your anticipation skills are good/you know your opponent is going to take >2 seconds to notice and respond. i guarantee that 20 dts blinkin on a bio ball will shred it to pieces. The terran will take 2-3 seconds to react, and by then, they would have lost a sizable chunk of their army. | ||
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NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
On February 03 2013 10:45 da_head wrote: i guarantee that 20 dts blinkin on a bio ball will shred it to pieces. The terran will take 2-3 seconds to react, and by then, they would have lost a sizable chunk of their army. You see your opponent investing in almost pure DT, and DON"T build a raven? | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On February 03 2013 12:49 da_head wrote: the in game sound is too loud Try 10% to 15% for Master Volume. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
yep im tinkering with it. This record session was literally, in game lobby, o hey i should record this. ok get on skype. so very last minute and unprepared (hence the lag and sound issues haha) | ||
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topsecret221
United States108 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On February 03 2013 12:46 NDDseer wrote: You see your opponent investing in almost pure DT, and DON"T build a raven? You'd be surprised how many progames i've seen where the terran throwns down 10+ scans instead of making a raven haha. I'm gonna post the second vod i recorded. Note that this was right after the first game. I switched to fraps for this so the video quality should be a lot better/smoother but the game volume is still too high (ill fix it for upcoming games). Enjoy. edit: Also ill be on for the next few hours if anyone wants to jump on and play some games. | ||
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