[M](2) Clementine (HoTS)

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Veloh15

United States161 Posts

December 08 2012 03:01 GMT

Clementine
By Velo
Published On NA HoTS Server

Overview

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45 Degree

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Aesthetics

[spoiler]

Thanks for taking a look I felt that this didn't really make it from my conceptual idea, but I did get some cool aesthetics so I thought I'd post it anyways

NewSunshine

United States5938 Posts

December 08 2012 03:15 GMT

A few things:

-I don't see the rock towers doing too much, seeing as they're on corner paths, and they don't even block them off.
-I'd consider changing up the XNT layout, as demonstrated with this picture:
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Since there's just 1 main path through the center, having XNT's that watch the outer paths may work pretty well.

-Your mineral lines look weird, try looking at some other community maps, or at Blizzard's maps, doing so will help you give your mineral lines a more natural, polished look.

Gfire

United States1699 Posts

December 08 2012 07:03 GMT

I like this map quite a bit. I'd enjoy seeing the elevated half base be even more easily harassed from the low ground, though.

I agree with NewSunshine's suggestions. Watchtowers on the side seem like a good idea.

Manrik-

Sweden1 Post

December 09 2012 00:49 GMT

I really like the double XNT in the middle, not allowing tower control to cover all possbile counter attack paths.

Gfire

United States1699 Posts

December 09 2012 01:34 GMT

Actually I wouldn't mind having no watchtowers on this map at all. That might be better than any of the locations you could put them.

Glurkenspurk

United States1915 Posts

December 09 2012 01:44 GMT

On December 09 2012 10:34 Gfire wrote:
Actually I wouldn't mind having no watchtowers on this map at all. That might be better than any of the locations you could put them.

I'd like it if this would happen to every map tbh.

Veloh15

United States161 Posts

December 09 2012 03:01 GMT

Thanks for the suggestions guys I'm going to leave the map as is unless something game-breaking occurs. I enjoyed making this map but I personally feel the final product isn't very good

. Still if there are some general issues with my map making in general please point them out! I plan to continue making maps, and of course get better

Vei

United States2845 Posts

December 10 2012 00:15 GMT

Lovee the aesthetics. I really like nicely-lit maps.. I wish there were more of them.

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

December 10 2012 17:29 GMT

Well i have played a little on the map, and i have found some things that i guess you may already know like the xel'nagas that give vision of each others, but there other issues with the map, like the rock columns in the natural where you can hide units and even buildings inside of them, and some things with the texturing and lack of doodads in some areas (in the braxis cliffswhere youcan see into the darkness below the map

)

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This is a real issue, i really think you should take the advice that Sunshine give you, because having two watch towers overlap in this way THIS much is in general really bad for the game

Well i personally dislike the terrain (or doodads for that matter) hiding other parts of the map to the player since it can lead to cheese abussing the terrain, if you want to keep the position for the overlords you can put doodads (a small tower or something) surrounded by LoS blockers and pathing blockers, that way the ground units won't be able to see beyond the LoS blockers and therebefore won't be able to see if there's an overlord on top without air support

I don't think i have to explain what problems could carry keeping something like this in the map, i suggest you to at least place plathing blockers below the towers in both naturals, and i suggest you to place more pathing blockers or small doodads that block the path in the area that's "in the north" of the trees behind the tower in the north natural. IE the place where i hided the drones in the first picture, so the players can actually see what is on their natural.

This is what i mean when saying about the texturing in the cliffs i suggest you to try to spot these "places of blackness", so the theme of the map remains untouched by bugs.

Your map is really likeable in the theme and in the way the map works, when i have more time i will play it more with my friends (this was more of a testing session), i really enjoy it (specially when i put my graphics higher ^^)

Veloh15

United States161 Posts

December 10 2012 19:45 GMT

#10

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On December 11 2012 02:29 Uvantak wrote:
Well i have played a little on the map, and i have found some things that i guess you may already know like the xel'nagas that give vision of each others, but there other issues with the map, like the rock columns in the natural where you can hide units and even buildings inside of them, and some things with the texturing and lack of doodads in some areas (in the braxis cliffswhere youcan see into the darkness below the map

)

+ Show Spoiler +

This is a real issue, i really think you should take the advice that Sunshine give you, because having two watch towers overlap in this way THIS much is in general really bad for the game

This is what i mean when saying about the texturing in the cliffs i suggest you to try to spot these "places of blackness", so the theme of the map remains untouched by bugs.

I also suspect that some areas around the edges my be pathable when they should not. I have to study today, but I will try to get your suggested fixes in sometime tomorrow! Thanks so much for the feedback! You have no idea how helpful it is to have someone else join your map and look for bugs!

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

December 11 2012 00:50 GMT

#11

On December 11 2012 04:45 Veloh15 wrote:
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)

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This is a real issue, i really think you should take the advice that Sunshine give you, because having two watch towers overlap in this way THIS much is in general really bad for the game

This is what i mean when saying about the texturing in the cliffs i suggest you to try to spot these "places of blackness", so the theme of the map remains untouched by bugs.

Glad to have helped pal, as i say previously the map is really good (specially in the texturing choices [Dunno if that's the Zerus standard textures or other planet standard textures, but it looks really really good])

Clawfinger

Canada221 Posts

December 11 2012 09:26 GMT

#12

I like the design of this map a lot. Also the fact that it doesn't have a free third would bring some interesting gameplay to it. I would consider getting rid of the Xel'Naga Towers completely, as they don't really do much in their current position besides control the vision for the very center lane (which is usually controlled by whoever has map control anyways). I see this map work really well with HotS units though. Makes me wish that lurkers were coming into the game instead of swarm hosts.

Millet

Sweden143 Posts

December 11 2012 13:48 GMT

#13

I, like seemingly everyone else, like the design and aesthetics of this map very much. I do want to complain about the mineral placement though. I would suggest a more standard approach to mineral placement to get rid of the solid walls that the mineral line forms currently. The standard way can be found here:

Proper mineral placement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381401

The problems that arise with your current mineral placement is:
1. Drops will become much harder to deal with. Especially for zerg.
2. Cannon rushes (at mainly the natural and high ground, half base third) will become very efficient. (2 pylons to block off the cannon zone behind the mineral line, and then 1 or more cannons in this zone.)
3. Mining efficiency is always at 100% with this placement, not allowing pros or zealous people to gain an edge (small though it may be), by microing your workers to the nearest mineral patch.

If you uploaded your map somewhere I'd be able to give you map specific images to illustrate my complaints.

You may be wondering what kind of cannon rushes I'm talking about, so I will upload a picture from Daybreak (which honestly is quite a stupid cannon position in both mains):

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(P.S. All assumptions here are based on your overview picture, since I neither have HotS, nor an NA account. So take everything with a grain of salt, and try my assumptions in-game first)

IveReturned

Turkey258 Posts

December 11 2012 15:41 GMT

#14

Get the metal panels a little bit more dusty

I just don't care about gameplay

Ragoo

Germany2773 Posts

December 30 2012 18:21 GMT

#15

Sorry I don't check here often enough atm, I only saw this 2 days ago.

I like this map a lot! Very nice layout, not too simple, not too complicated. Bases are not just for free. Aesthetics are very clean. Very good job considering I assume you are quite new to SC2 mapmaking?!

2 things I dislike:
- two towers in middle; I'm generally not a great lover of towers but two towers in such close proximity seems a bit overkill for this middle
- in general your space management regarding the map border is pretty bad; the corners have a lot of wasted airspace, as well as at the 3 and 9 o'clock position; I think this stuff is fixable and should be fixed if you want to take this map to the highest level

Again gj and hope you will do some more stuff in the future

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

December 30 2012 21:07 GMT

#16

Veloh has this map changed, or did you post it in WIP thread originally? Seems different than last time I checked on it.

Personally I'm okay with the towers, I think more maps should use towers that can see each other, it's actually an interesting feature on some maps. It would be fine without towers as well.

I have two things I would change:

Remove the holes to the right and left of the middle. That should just be open ground imo, or that dot of obstruction should be smaller.
There should be a second set of collapsible rocks on the other side of the ramp where they already are, allowing to completely close that entrance with two separate rocks. It would also block a little bit of space below the cliff at the middle half base so you can't shoot the whole mineral line.

Also as ragoo said the corner usage could be better, but eh.

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