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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin |
So for a while now I've been kicking around the idea of a 1v1 map with bilateral symmetry. The only popular one that I know of is Atlantis Spaceship, and I think that it's a style with potential, though there can definitely be issues, too. I'm new to mapmaking, so I welcome any and all criticism.
Anyway, this is the map I've been working on, which is 140x160 playable. I'm not bothering with texturing yet - I've just color coded height differences.
Overview:
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Game view angle:
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Since it's pretty large. I wanted to have a map with a bit of a slightly exposed natural to compensate for a larger rush distance (though I'll admit I couldn't get the map analyzer working, so I don't have numbers... I'm new to this). The upper, flat entrance to the nat can be walled in with using two 3x3 structures. Rocks protect the larger, more central ramp into the natural.
The water separating the main from the low ground has a width of 4 at its tightest point. I've considered widening this gap to weaken blink stalker/siege tank play, but it starts to seem like a poor use of space at that point. I'm going to continue playing with it.
The right third of the map is a bit segregated from the rest, which I kind of like. I think it might make late game counterattacks with weaker, more mobile units a bit more powerful as the main armies engage elsewhere. On the other hand, I also see it making drop play difficult to defend against.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you all think. Any advice on improving this map is very welcome. On the other hand, if people more experienced than me think it's not worth it, I have no problem scrapping it.
On a semi-related note, you'll notice that all the ramps in the lower half of the map are messed up. I'm not really sure why this happened when I copy-pasted the top half. I can remake them and they work out fine, but does anyone have a clue why this happens or how I can prevent it? I've gotten a good few texture issues in the editor while building. I can only assume that it's because I'm doing things in an unintended way.
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Measuring the worker time from natural to natural and main to main could be used, but the map analyzer doesn't work with 1,5 AFAIK so it hasn't been used at all lately. 25-35, 35-45 seconds is usually for.
The right side looks a bit turtly, the forward bases defend the backward ones a lot.
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the debris at 3rd would have what role?
To make the 3rd initially a little easier to defend. Without the debris there's 2 entrances to the third and a nat backdoor. It might be ok since that's basically how cloud kingdom is, but I thought I would put the option for rocks or no rocks.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1gjq0.png)
Any thoughts?
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Update, with a little bit of texturing. I made the forward right-side bases low ground, and I removed the ramp connecting them with the adjacent rear bases. I think this should limit the forward base's ability to defend the rear base.
Overview:
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Game view angle:
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MarineMedivacTank 2base push ->23oclock->back of main, nice choky area.
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Creating this in preparation for HotS. I've played with a few different ideas on it -- tested a few with the HotS beta tester included with the beta editor. Some work -- some don't -- and some work but also don't work :/
Hopefully the release will make it better at that point but for right now -- this is what I got. Still a LOOOOOONG way to go.
Some Notes
- NO Xel'Naga Watchtowers -- instead it is a brand new toy included with HotS that I think may become a great new item for creating key points in maps
- Third against main can be walled with 3 buildings for "easy" defense -- with the new airplay available in HotS I anticipate that being the method of attack on these bases, or using sight to hit from the lowground
- Bases at 11/5 O'Clock (top left/bottom right) are not cliffwalkable--there is a very small gap separating them from the lowground
- Natural has a spellcaster drop zone for harass -- requires air unit to see into natural or placement that makes the unit immediately attackable via ranged defenders
- Natural has an XNC style access path to the third -- this is subject to change
- Mineral block for quick access from nat to third exists -- need to finalize numbers on these minerals -- any recommendations? I want it usable for attacks as well (requiring the bringing of a few scv/drone/probes)
I did try to use collapsible rocks on bases at 11/5 -- I did not like the result. The collapsed portions would not remain but instead immediately dissapeared. With my original implementation it had created a highly unique use for them, but with how they work (you cannot destroy the base after the first collapse) it did not pan out the way I had hoped it would.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NUUoi.jpg)
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- NO Xel'Naga Watchtowers -- instead it is a brand new toy included with HotS that I think may become a great new item for creating key points in maps
What/where is this brand new toy? This was confusing to read.
Map looks interesting. Optional thirds are always cool. I like the revival of the XNC backpassageway. With MSC for protoss we may not 100% need every natural to have only 1 unblocked opening at the start (or maybe we still will, I guess we'll see :-P). I think the caster drop locations could make for some interesting play.
@ the mineral walls, you said you wanted them to work for attacking and defending but I don't know why an attacker would ever go to the effort to take them down. Defender might sometimes think it worthwhile if it's only a few mineral trips to take them down.
edit: I think the top left / bottom right expos might need a bit of tweaking. The CC/Nex/Hatch will be too much in the way - it will prevent the defender from being able to get any kind of decent engagement when trying to save that expo from an attack.
I can see how it's tricky to set up because you have the base set forward from the cliff a little so only long-range units can attack from below the cliff. But cloud kingdom has a 4th that is way more harassable than that and it's regarded as one of the best SC2 maps so maybe it would be ok to scrunch it against the cliff more. Idk :-P
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t24Nc.jpg)
WIP HotS map.
Aesthetics are obviously incomplete; I want to try combining Daelaam Ark with some Ulnar textures because I like the Protoss starship tilesets.
What/where is this brand new toy? This was confusing to read.
There's a lot of interesting new stuff in the HotS editor. "Xel'naga Healing Shrine", "Rough Terrain (Snare Patches)", and a ton of different rock types, including Ice, Destructable Zerus Arch, and Collapsible Terran Tower.
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Xel'naga Healing Shrine
I and some other people have mentioned before that they should include the hp + mana regen pools from WC3, sounds like that's what that is. This is such a good thing - there's finally another way to create a point of interest other than XNT or resources.
Patches of land that slow you is also super interesting. Seems like we have so much more power to do interesting things as mapmakers in HOTS.
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On November 19 2012 14:55 Fatam wrote:I and some other people have mentioned before that they should include the hp + mana regen pools from WC3, sounds like that's what that is. This is such a good thing - there's finally another way to create a point of interest other than XNT or resources. Patches of land that slow you is also super interesting. Seems like we have so much more power to do interesting things as mapmakers in HOTS.
A lot of them have no model and are likely nonfunctional. I also found one called "Extending bridge" and noted that the warhound has the suffix "Merc Commander"
The Zerg have a building called the "Deep Warren" and a "Creep Tower" The Deep Warren looks a lot like the Lurker Den. I imagine that we'll be able to build Lurkers in the campaign with this building.
I'm testing the functionality of various stuff. In any case, this is getting a little off-topic.
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On November 19 2012 13:28 Fatam wrote:Show nested quote +- NO Xel'Naga Watchtowers -- instead it is a brand new toy included with HotS that I think may become a great new item for creating key points in maps What/where is this brand new toy? This was confusing to read. Map looks interesting. Optional thirds are always cool. I like the revival of the XNC backpassageway. With MSC for protoss we may not 100% need every natural to have only 1 unblocked opening at the start (or maybe we still will, I guess we'll see :-P). I think the caster drop locations could make for some interesting play. @ the mineral walls, you said you wanted them to work for attacking and defending but I don't know why an attacker would ever go to the effort to take them down. Defender might sometimes think it worthwhile if it's only a few mineral trips to take them down. edit: I think the top left / bottom right expos might need a bit of tweaking. The CC/Nex/Hatch will be too much in the way - it will prevent the defender from being able to get any kind of decent engagement when trying to save that expo from an attack. I can see how it's tricky to set up because you have the base set forward from the cliff a little so only long-range units can attack from below the cliff. But cloud kingdom has a 4th that is way more harassable than that and it's regarded as one of the best SC2 maps so maybe it would be ok to scrunch it against the cliff more. Idk :-P
On November 19 2012 14:55 Fatam wrote:I and some other people have mentioned before that they should include the hp + mana regen pools from WC3, sounds like that's what that is. This is such a good thing - there's finally another way to create a point of interest other than XNT or resources.
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! +10 Internet Cookies for Fatam! As a side note -- this unit is currently graphically bugged (not functionally). I have already written up a post on the beta bug forum concerning this one specifically.It appears like a completed unit until it gets into range of sight for your unit. 
As for the mineral walls -- I see your point. I have thought about just simply turning it into a LOS blocked area instead of the mineral block. Until I get some test games on it though I am going to keep it.
Top left/bottom right expos do need tweaking -- that is a problem area at the moment -- still working it out.
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As for the mineral walls -- I see your point. I have thought about just simply turning it into a LOS blocked area instead of the mineral block. Until I get some test games on it though I am going to keep it.
Yeah I don't see anything wrong w/ it atm. I don't think mineral walls have to be useful for both the defender and attacker, just one of them.
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Some aesthetic work. I gave up on incorporating Ulnar, but I really like the Daelaam Ark tileset. Any balance feedback?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MaOCp.jpg)
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The main/nat/third setup is sort of like entombed but with a couple twists. I think that part of the map is pretty cool.
I kind of want there to be a bit more space inbetween the ramps leading out of the nat and the next set of ramps. I gotta go atm but maybe I can come back later and look at it more / make more comments
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@Drake: Blast Pit is an AWESOME name yes yes do that. It fits the visuals pretty well too. Nice update, it looks much cleaner / improved. I still think it will be terribly terribly terran imba because of two "free" mineral expansions, but it's looking much more playable than "concept" like it used to be. 
Did you mention before... are there LosB on the side bases? Otherwise you can warp in over the mineral line, essentially into the main.
I think a pit or unpathable high ground in front of each base complex to break up the space would be the simplest and best solution. Just a diagonal rectangle about the size of 2-3 CCs.
@Copper: Kind of cool everywhere, also kind of cramped everywhere. I think this needs to be about 10-20% larger and have some corners/spacing adjusted. Everything looks just barely narrow or close enough to feel awkwardly placed. For example, the FFE walling situation is major awk. And most parts of the map are 3-4 forcefields across. I like the idea of the 3rd that really rewards you for having the watchtower and using the high ground to defend your territory, but it's not quite right. I think the map would be stronger if you just made the natural have one ramp, where the one with rocks is roughly, and an entombed valley rocks side like you have but a little closer maybe. The 4 and 10 bases should have another route, otherwise it's barely more difficult (with the watchtower) to expand there after your 3rd.
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On November 19 2012 23:02 SigmaFiE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 13:28 Fatam wrote:- NO Xel'Naga Watchtowers -- instead it is a brand new toy included with HotS that I think may become a great new item for creating key points in maps What/where is this brand new toy? This was confusing to read. Map looks interesting. Optional thirds are always cool. I like the revival of the XNC backpassageway. With MSC for protoss we may not 100% need every natural to have only 1 unblocked opening at the start (or maybe we still will, I guess we'll see :-P). I think the caster drop locations could make for some interesting play. @ the mineral walls, you said you wanted them to work for attacking and defending but I don't know why an attacker would ever go to the effort to take them down. Defender might sometimes think it worthwhile if it's only a few mineral trips to take them down. edit: I think the top left / bottom right expos might need a bit of tweaking. The CC/Nex/Hatch will be too much in the way - it will prevent the defender from being able to get any kind of decent engagement when trying to save that expo from an attack. I can see how it's tricky to set up because you have the base set forward from the cliff a little so only long-range units can attack from below the cliff. But cloud kingdom has a 4th that is way more harassable than that and it's regarded as one of the best SC2 maps so maybe it would be ok to scrunch it against the cliff more. Idk :-P Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 14:55 Fatam wrote:Xel'naga Healing Shrine I and some other people have mentioned before that they should include the hp + mana regen pools from WC3, sounds like that's what that is. This is such a good thing - there's finally another way to create a point of interest other than XNT or resources. Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! +10 Internet Cookies for Fatam! As a side note -- this unit is currently graphically bugged (not functionally). I have already written up a post on the beta bug forum concerning this one specifically.It appears like a completed unit until it gets into range of sight for your unit. As for the mineral walls -- I see your point. I have thought about just simply turning it into a LOS blocked area instead of the mineral block. Until I get some test games on it though I am going to keep it. Top left/bottom right expos do need tweaking -- that is a problem area at the moment -- still working it out.
Ermegerd I have been working on a map that has a healing shrine months ago!!! ><
Oh well I hope it works out well for competitive play, but it'll have to be used very carefully. Healing banshees...??? =\ Healing stim bio camping on a shrine location?
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On November 20 2012 12:36 EatThePath wrote:@Drake: Blast Pit is an AWESOME name yes yes do that. It fits the visuals pretty well too. Nice update, it looks much cleaner / improved. I still think it will be terribly terribly terran imba because of two "free" mineral expansions, but it's looking much more playable than "concept" like it used to be. Did you mention before... are there LosB on the side bases? Otherwise you can warp in over the mineral line, essentially into the main. I think a pit or unpathable high ground in front of each base complex to break up the space would be the simplest and best solution. Just a diagonal rectangle about the size of 2-3 CCs.
AHHHHHH shit I forgot to mention some important things.
1) The area around the minerals in unbuildable. The pathing tool only blocks building but the doodad blocker also blocks warp in. So the doodad blockers are on the side of the main and the pathing tool blockers are on the out side. The reason I removed the LOS blockers is because of HotS (MamaCore).
2) There are now 9 mineral patchs at the back base. However they only have 750 minerals a pop. I might even wanna lower that to 500 or 600. IDK. Testing will only tell.
3) Mid is 1 block wide from all sides. So you can't get to the tower with things like archons, tanks, thor etc.
Hope that clears things up.
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Ah I see... hmm I guess that's the only option for HotS, good point. I would include some kind of visual indicator that the ground there is different to try and communicate that it's not a buildable or viable spot for warpins. Not sure how to do this besides maybe a glowing outline and a rough texture?
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