Hello Everyone! For this new map I've got in the making, I'm planning on taking a more serious route for it, Thus I've come here for Your help to help me finish it! I might know a thing or two about detailling maps, but, I've never really got hold of the balancing part, besides a tiny bit.
Thus far, I've come up with this layout. Taking a bit inspiration from various maps having 2 close nats to the main, while making my own middle part & sides. And yes, your eyes does not deceive you. There aren't 2, nor 4 but 6! Destructable rocks laying on strategic locations. good thing it's not a finished map.
^Sure have come a bit futher with this map design now! But it aren't just over Yet.
Map details:
Skovbrand is a 136x128 playable map. Map contain 10 expansions (Mains incl.) One Xel'naga Watchtower covering the high grounds near the middle of the map Line of Sight blockers are located near the middle high grounds and at the corners of the map. Forest fires and Lava. Lots of it.
Update log:
~0.12 Critters has appeared! Minor terrain edits here and there. One additional Overlord spot has been added near the forward thirds. More terrain details has been added. Minimap outer area visibilities has been improved a tad bit. (more black) ~0.11 Possible Third has recieved a major overhaul. Rocks blocking forward third has been relocated back to the nearby ramp. Major & Minor map detail changes here and there. ~0.10 Rocks has been relocated to nearby 3rd/4th expansion (whatever comes first) Ramps north/south from middle has become slightly smaller. 3 and 9 o'clock expansions has been moved a tiny abit. ~0.9 Expanded the pathway towards the possible 3rd/4th (whatever comes first) ~0.8 Minor terrain details added. ~0.7 Even more terrain detail appears as Doodads & other side of the map has comes alive. Line of Sight blockers has been added to near the middle area and also at the corners of the map. 5 & 11 o'clock expansions has been nudged a bit, thus siege tanks from non-ramp side can only reach the one gas ~0.6 Some actual terrain details appear! Starting positions has been relocated closer to the corners. Minor layout edits here and there. + Show Spoiler [Older updates] +
~0.5 Rocks now fully cover the ramps leading up 3rd's. ~0.4 Increased map length to 136x from 128x. Design overhaul of the corners on the map. 4x Destructable rocks has been removed. Middle ones still stay, but aren't fully blocking the ramps anymore. Low-ground attack route has been added near the natural. ~0.3 Minor fixes & Released on EU. ~0.2 Minor fixes & completly new texture set, Typhon! ~0.1 Layout completion.
Analyzer data Walk distance between main ramps is roughly 114 seconds, give or take. (Using map tool) //Anyone know of a updated map analyzer for patch 1.5? Please share.
I would enlarge the map by about 10-15% to make room for more open space and widened paths/chokes. Not a lot, but some. Right now the only quick 3rd base is towards the opponent, which is really bad for zerg. The NW and SE bases are too close, those should have a more circuitous route, or no route, between them. Otherwise you have no possible map split and the late game is just unstable counterattacking -- also bad (more so) for zerg, and not very fun or strategic, and puts too much emphasis on midgame.
Otherwise interesting center, would like to see it work. Maybe the center ramps should be 3 wide, with rocks covering most of it (like on Cloud Kingdom). glhf!
@PiPoGevy Daybreak never really crossed my mind during the creation of the map. Neither do I see many similarities to it. Only map that really had me some inspirations was how Cloud Kingdom handled the first 2 expansions close by the mains.
@EatThePath Thanks for all that feedback!
Map length & Corners of the map has undergone a major overhaul, thus it should be easier to split the map between the players. And if some are sneaky, they can try ninja mine the 5 or 11 o'clock expansions. Small ramps near the center has also been increased a bit, while still the rocks being there, but not fully blocking the ramp. I have also decided to remove one xel'naga watchtower and relocating the other one to the middle of the map. This way it aren't possible for players to have too much sight over the side routes of the map. Another test change I've made is addin a small low-ground attack route next to the naturals. Still unsure if I should let them stay or not. Edit: Forgot to add: the cliffs between nat & possible 3rd or 4th expansion isn't gonna be walk able.
If you really want, you could preserve the rocks to the edge 3rd base (but it'd have to be tweaked for that to work), not sure if this was an important feature in your original concept.
I have a bunch of suggested tweaks (mostly for spacing around the ramps), if you send me the map file it'd be much easier to change it in the editor and take a picture than try to draw it on the image. If you like.
Made a minor change to it. The rocks now fully cover the ramps leading up to the 3rd's. Didn't really like the idea of having an open hole for units to sneak trough @EatThePath The more help, the merrier. Check your PMs.
Before I start doing the very last terrain/doodad/etc details, I would like to hear your guys opinion about the current layout of the map. Anything I should definitely change or is it good to go? Also, the overview dosn't do the terrain details justice enough. it does look good.
I'm not entirely sure of the point of the 11 and 5 oclock nubs on the map. They look like they provide nothing except for an alternate path to attack the semi-island's ramp. I honestly don't think many people will take that expansion in the first place
On August 13 2012 00:14 ChaosRefined wrote: I'm not entirely sure of the point of the 11 and 5 oclock nubs on the map. They look like they provide nothing except for an alternate path to attack the semi-island's ramp. I honestly don't think many people will take that expansion in the first place
It looks like it could be used to proxy buildings, other than that though I can't see another reason.
My idea for it, as ChaosRefined guessed, was it being a alternate attack path, but not directly against the highground expansion. Its more against the 3rd/4th (whatever comes first) expansion, as I wanted another route to it than just enlarging the choke point I have for it. + Show Spoiler [Example image] +
My only concern about it now, is the path aroundmight be a bit too long for the attacking player to use, but still unsure about that.
Seems like its going to be difficult for Protoss to take a third. I like the map design though. There are two options for making the third viable, imo:
1) If you want the middle expansions to be taken as thirds, remove the middle ramp or block it with rocks completely. That way Protoss doesn't have to worry about a gigantic flat entrance and a ramp.
2) Move the third that expands away from the opponent (vertical to the natural) a little bit closer and make a defined choke that can be walled easily, using about 4 gateways.
I think I'd vote for option 2 because the first option makes it difficult for Zerg to take a third, since the distance for protoss to pressure/attack would end up being very short.
Suddenly, thread facelift & Map update! Check main post for updates.
@ScorpSCII Thanks for the info. Will give it a look next time I findle with the Mar Sara texture set! @monitor Thanks for the feedback! Currently I'm using the option 1, with the rocks fully blocking the ramps. I do have ideas about shrinkin the ramp a bit to make it easier to control. But then again, I don't want my map to become too chokey everywhere so I'm not exacly sure how to take it on.
Interesting. Now that you've chosen this option, I think there are a couple follow up changes should be made. Here is what I'm concerned about:
Now, Zerg doesn't have to take that base as a third, but it is either the third or fourth. Either way it is going to be difficult to react to any big pushes, and not to mention they will all come about 10 seconds earlier than on other maps such as Cloud Kingdom or Daybreak. So I think something should be done about that.
I actually can't think of a very good solution. The ideas I've had involve changing around the two corner bases and redesigning them to be easier for zerg to take, and to be farther from the opponent. But nothing sticks out as a great solution. It might be best to see what some others have to say about it.
Some great points you've made. So far my current ideas about it, is making the close third less accessible at start by blocking it with rocks ("yay" more rocks), or, a creep tumor. My favorite is the latter, but it kinda ruins the aesthetics of the map. Hmm. ponder ponder.
On August 16 2012 02:52 Ferisii wrote: Some great points you've made. So far my current ideas about it, is making the close third less accessible at start by blocking it with rocks ("yay" more rocks), or, a creep tumor. My favorite is the latter, but it kinda ruins the aesthetics of the map. Hmm. ponder ponder.
You could always just make it a 5m1g base and then make the other third more viable. It might require adding in another base though (maybe in the corner if you pushed the fifth away) so that Zerg could get up to 5 base and 8 gas lategame.
*Pffff* blam...? Late update! Got stuck in the Team Fortress 2 universe due to awesome update (aslong it actully worked, but nvm about that)
Map has jumped from v0.8 to v0.10. Most noticely change is rocks has been relocated ontop of the nearby expansions, to try prevent some possible PvZ imbalances as has been discussed above. As of that, the ramp where rocks was, has decreased in size a bit. Other changes can be found in the update log. Walk distance from natural to the nearby expansions is around 40 seconds*. (Or about 2-3 creep tumors away.)
Very good update. This map looks quite good now. I am only worried about the lategame, especially for zerg. There are only 5 bases and at the end of the game the distance between the expansions is rather small. But, not every map has to provide for an extended macro game. I just wish it wasn't so very hard for zerg to get a 5th base.
Maybe you can tuck the "forward" 3rd closer towards the main and away from the other player's 4th, where their army will be most of the time. And/or you could put a base on the inside of the new lava trench that blocks off the 3rd base. But fitting in either of these things would be difficult.
As is, quite good map except that it's probably 60-40 anti zerg for long games.
@EatThePath At this stage of the map, I fear that it's impossible for me to add one fitting additional base for each side due to lack of space, nor does I wish to increase the size of the map. I did try some ideas to incoporate it in, but ultimately it didn't look good enough. Regarding moving the forward third a bit closer I find troublesome as it's already 40 seconds away from the natural, which distance I don't wish to decrease with the already closer normal third.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EKsXF.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PWfCP.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PMxQp.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mqSJ9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ewXRU.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5cSkn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2e7hg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oK3FI.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4272S.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yBkLy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xj1nS.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eQv08.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Qk6Ma.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i0Cic.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5E5Hn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AWynx.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0qws3.jpg)
