• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:25
CET 20:25
KST 04:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice1Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) WardiTV Team League Season 10
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion It's March 3rd CasterMuse Youtube Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues BWCL Season 64 Announcement The Casual Games of the Week Thread [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Just Watchers: Why Some Only…
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1790 users

[MOD] FRB - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 All
yakitate304
Profile Joined April 2009
United States655 Posts
November 25 2014 00:25 GMT
#161
On November 24 2014 09:19 jcr2001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2014 14:16 jcr2001 wrote:
Does anyone know exactly what happened to this idea? From what I understand, it seems like it wasn't favoured because it just had the same deathball problems, just slower, and on 4 base. Are they implying that it's a unit design issue? It also looks like it wasn't really tested in HotS, after all those crazy changes to promote aggression came in.


In general, we found that when people were playing macro-oriented styles, games did tend to be scrappier and feature more multi-pronged play. One issue from the tournament that we ran is that this was just a one-time thing for these players, and only a few of them played on FRB maps at all leading up to the event, so there was a lot of early cheese that ended games quickly. As a result of the changed economy, players didn't know how to defend the early aggression, and there weren't enough games played or attention given to the gamemode for a real meta or standardized builds to develop. That being said, there were some really interesting games. The optimist in me believes that if players were to play FRB over the course of several months, we would start to see a healthier balance between early aggression, viable expansion defense, and exciting games.

Ah yes, I remember watching your casts back when it was 6m1g FRB. Thank you for casting those games!

What exactly do you mean by "scrappier"? Is that in some sense, the aim of the experiment: to encourage all-over-the-map action? I thought it was a good idea but I never saw any games from it and HotS came out.

I'd like to see Blizzard experiment more with economy rates to encourage multi-base play than just putting a timer on players. Then again, everything needs testing; maybe Blizzard's idea is better.

Thanks for the support but I actually never casted! I was just the person who assembled the tournament lineup and pull in the small amount of sponsorship and extra broadcasting (on the now defunct cybersports.tv) that we received. Senex and Pull were the two casters, both for general community FRB games and the eventual tournament.

And yes, by "scrappier" I did mean that the macro games we saw featured more action taking place with smaller armies at different spots on the map. Since expansions were more numerous, people needed to split their army more in order to either do damage to their opponent without losing a base of their own, or to defend/attack in multiple spots. It could just be confirmation bias on my part, though!
Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft
jcr2001
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Singapore53 Posts
November 25 2014 05:59 GMT
#162
On November 25 2014 09:25 yakitate304 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2014 09:19 jcr2001 wrote:
On November 20 2014 14:16 jcr2001 wrote:
Does anyone know exactly what happened to this idea? From what I understand, it seems like it wasn't favoured because it just had the same deathball problems, just slower, and on 4 base. Are they implying that it's a unit design issue? It also looks like it wasn't really tested in HotS, after all those crazy changes to promote aggression came in.


In general, we found that when people were playing macro-oriented styles, games did tend to be scrappier and feature more multi-pronged play. One issue from the tournament that we ran is that this was just a one-time thing for these players, and only a few of them played on FRB maps at all leading up to the event, so there was a lot of early cheese that ended games quickly. As a result of the changed economy, players didn't know how to defend the early aggression, and there weren't enough games played or attention given to the gamemode for a real meta or standardized builds to develop. That being said, there were some really interesting games. The optimist in me believes that if players were to play FRB over the course of several months, we would start to see a healthier balance between early aggression, viable expansion defense, and exciting games.

Ah yes, I remember watching your casts back when it was 6m1g FRB. Thank you for casting those games!

What exactly do you mean by "scrappier"? Is that in some sense, the aim of the experiment: to encourage all-over-the-map action? I thought it was a good idea but I never saw any games from it and HotS came out.

I'd like to see Blizzard experiment more with economy rates to encourage multi-base play than just putting a timer on players. Then again, everything needs testing; maybe Blizzard's idea is better.

Thanks for the support but I actually never casted! I was just the person who assembled the tournament lineup and pull in the small amount of sponsorship and extra broadcasting (on the now defunct cybersports.tv) that we received. Senex and Pull were the two casters, both for general community FRB games and the eventual tournament.

And yes, by "scrappier" I did mean that the macro games we saw featured more action taking place with smaller armies at different spots on the map. Since expansions were more numerous, people needed to split their army more in order to either do damage to their opponent without losing a base of their own, or to defend/attack in multiple spots. It could just be confirmation bias on my part, though!

Ah right, my bad! I should have read the post more carefully.

If such games were occurring in WoL, I wonder how it'd be like in HotS. I think this idea ought to have another try
fenix404
Profile Joined May 2011
United States305 Posts
November 25 2014 07:38 GMT
#163
i'm gonna be trying this myself. the economy changes have me all excited for experimenting, and i didnt get to mess with this one yet.

we may have to see different maps designed just for these kinds of changes, to see the full effects. im watching one on tal'darim altar, and i'm pretty sure something like cloud kingdom or daybreak may make this work better. obv much testing is still required.
"think for yourself, question authority"
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
November 25 2014 10:23 GMT
#164
On November 15 2014 12:04 Timetwister22 wrote:
However, spreading out across the map should be a decision that can help define a player's skill, not an act forced upon the player to just stay even in the game. Forcing or greatly limiting the decisions in a competitive RTS is generally a bad idea. Hence why I like the logic behind FRB. If my understanding is correct, FRB encourages expanding instead of forcing it, and grants benefits to players who take more than 3 mining bases. Thus, I like FRB better, and would greatly like Blizzard to try out FRB, or a similar variation of it, in the LotV beta.

If the reward is big enough, it is more or less a forced upon the player who wants to be successful.

Since SC2 has a quite large playerbase already, I understand Blizzard's approach to not completely redesign the economy, but to work within an established gameplay. Having twice as much workers to begin with and only 1000 minerals per patch is easy to understand.

You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
Prev 1 7 8 9 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 416
elazer 181
UpATreeSC 61
ForJumy 34
MindelVK 30
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 22643
Sea 22037
Shuttle 922
Mong 80
PianO 47
soO 9
Dota 2
qojqva3971
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps3907
fl0m3723
adren_tv35
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu216
Other Games
tarik_tv20089
Grubby3891
FrodaN1294
Beastyqt662
ceh9546
B2W.Neo538
C9.Mang0138
QueenE99
Dewaltoss80
Hui .67
KnowMe56
Trikslyr49
Mew2King32
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV249
Counter-Strike
PGL78
StarCraft 2
angryscii 30
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 5
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Noizen72
• lizZardDota256
League of Legends
• Nemesis2514
• TFBlade1245
Other Games
• imaqtpie975
• WagamamaTV299
• Shiphtur264
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
5h 35m
Replay Cast
13h 35m
Replay Cast
1d 4h
The PondCast
1d 14h
KCM Race Survival
1d 14h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
Ultimate Battle
2 days
Light vs ZerO
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Classic vs Nicoract
herO vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs Gerald
Clem vs Krystianer
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
MaxPax vs Spirit
Bunny vs Rogue
Cure vs SHIN
Solar vs Zoun
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-02
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.