• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:18
CEST 11:18
KST 18:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event5Serral wins EWC 202543Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9
Community News
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 193Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments5[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4
StarCraft 2
General
Rogue Talks: "Koreans could dominate again" uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025)
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays RSL Season 2 Qualifier Links and Dates
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
ASL Season 20 Ro24 Groups Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ StarCraft player reflex TE scores BW General Discussion
Tourneys
KCM 2025 Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Gaming After Dark: Poor Slee…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 592 users

[MOD] FRB - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 All
yakitate304
Profile Joined April 2009
United States655 Posts
November 25 2014 00:25 GMT
#161
On November 24 2014 09:19 jcr2001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2014 14:16 jcr2001 wrote:
Does anyone know exactly what happened to this idea? From what I understand, it seems like it wasn't favoured because it just had the same deathball problems, just slower, and on 4 base. Are they implying that it's a unit design issue? It also looks like it wasn't really tested in HotS, after all those crazy changes to promote aggression came in.


In general, we found that when people were playing macro-oriented styles, games did tend to be scrappier and feature more multi-pronged play. One issue from the tournament that we ran is that this was just a one-time thing for these players, and only a few of them played on FRB maps at all leading up to the event, so there was a lot of early cheese that ended games quickly. As a result of the changed economy, players didn't know how to defend the early aggression, and there weren't enough games played or attention given to the gamemode for a real meta or standardized builds to develop. That being said, there were some really interesting games. The optimist in me believes that if players were to play FRB over the course of several months, we would start to see a healthier balance between early aggression, viable expansion defense, and exciting games.

Ah yes, I remember watching your casts back when it was 6m1g FRB. Thank you for casting those games!

What exactly do you mean by "scrappier"? Is that in some sense, the aim of the experiment: to encourage all-over-the-map action? I thought it was a good idea but I never saw any games from it and HotS came out.

I'd like to see Blizzard experiment more with economy rates to encourage multi-base play than just putting a timer on players. Then again, everything needs testing; maybe Blizzard's idea is better.

Thanks for the support but I actually never casted! I was just the person who assembled the tournament lineup and pull in the small amount of sponsorship and extra broadcasting (on the now defunct cybersports.tv) that we received. Senex and Pull were the two casters, both for general community FRB games and the eventual tournament.

And yes, by "scrappier" I did mean that the macro games we saw featured more action taking place with smaller armies at different spots on the map. Since expansions were more numerous, people needed to split their army more in order to either do damage to their opponent without losing a base of their own, or to defend/attack in multiple spots. It could just be confirmation bias on my part, though!
Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft
jcr2001
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Singapore53 Posts
November 25 2014 05:59 GMT
#162
On November 25 2014 09:25 yakitate304 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2014 09:19 jcr2001 wrote:
On November 20 2014 14:16 jcr2001 wrote:
Does anyone know exactly what happened to this idea? From what I understand, it seems like it wasn't favoured because it just had the same deathball problems, just slower, and on 4 base. Are they implying that it's a unit design issue? It also looks like it wasn't really tested in HotS, after all those crazy changes to promote aggression came in.


In general, we found that when people were playing macro-oriented styles, games did tend to be scrappier and feature more multi-pronged play. One issue from the tournament that we ran is that this was just a one-time thing for these players, and only a few of them played on FRB maps at all leading up to the event, so there was a lot of early cheese that ended games quickly. As a result of the changed economy, players didn't know how to defend the early aggression, and there weren't enough games played or attention given to the gamemode for a real meta or standardized builds to develop. That being said, there were some really interesting games. The optimist in me believes that if players were to play FRB over the course of several months, we would start to see a healthier balance between early aggression, viable expansion defense, and exciting games.

Ah yes, I remember watching your casts back when it was 6m1g FRB. Thank you for casting those games!

What exactly do you mean by "scrappier"? Is that in some sense, the aim of the experiment: to encourage all-over-the-map action? I thought it was a good idea but I never saw any games from it and HotS came out.

I'd like to see Blizzard experiment more with economy rates to encourage multi-base play than just putting a timer on players. Then again, everything needs testing; maybe Blizzard's idea is better.

Thanks for the support but I actually never casted! I was just the person who assembled the tournament lineup and pull in the small amount of sponsorship and extra broadcasting (on the now defunct cybersports.tv) that we received. Senex and Pull were the two casters, both for general community FRB games and the eventual tournament.

And yes, by "scrappier" I did mean that the macro games we saw featured more action taking place with smaller armies at different spots on the map. Since expansions were more numerous, people needed to split their army more in order to either do damage to their opponent without losing a base of their own, or to defend/attack in multiple spots. It could just be confirmation bias on my part, though!

Ah right, my bad! I should have read the post more carefully.

If such games were occurring in WoL, I wonder how it'd be like in HotS. I think this idea ought to have another try
fenix404
Profile Joined May 2011
United States305 Posts
November 25 2014 07:38 GMT
#163
i'm gonna be trying this myself. the economy changes have me all excited for experimenting, and i didnt get to mess with this one yet.

we may have to see different maps designed just for these kinds of changes, to see the full effects. im watching one on tal'darim altar, and i'm pretty sure something like cloud kingdom or daybreak may make this work better. obv much testing is still required.
"think for yourself, question authority"
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
November 25 2014 10:23 GMT
#164
On November 15 2014 12:04 Timetwister22 wrote:
However, spreading out across the map should be a decision that can help define a player's skill, not an act forced upon the player to just stay even in the game. Forcing or greatly limiting the decisions in a competitive RTS is generally a bad idea. Hence why I like the logic behind FRB. If my understanding is correct, FRB encourages expanding instead of forcing it, and grants benefits to players who take more than 3 mining bases. Thus, I like FRB better, and would greatly like Blizzard to try out FRB, or a similar variation of it, in the LotV beta.

If the reward is big enough, it is more or less a forced upon the player who wants to be successful.

Since SC2 has a quite large playerbase already, I understand Blizzard's approach to not completely redesign the economy, but to work within an established gameplay. Having twice as much workers to begin with and only 1000 minerals per patch is easy to understand.

You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
Prev 1 7 8 9 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 42m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 39
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 788
Barracks 733
Larva 610
Flash 554
BeSt 302
Stork 246
EffOrt 192
ggaemo 181
hero 172
Killer 164
[ Show more ]
Dewaltoss 118
JulyZerg 71
Soma 70
yabsab 17
IntoTheRainbow 14
Noble 14
Dota 2
XcaliburYe1135
XaKoH 632
Fuzer 194
League of Legends
JimRising 500
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K756
allub400
Super Smash Bros
Westballz46
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor173
Other Games
summit1g9857
singsing325
SortOf162
EmSc Tv 17
ArmadaUGS17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick863
BasetradeTV33
EmSc Tv 17
StarCraft 2
EmSc2Tv 17
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
42m
SC Evo League
2h 42m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5h 42m
CSO Cup
6h 42m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 5h
Wardi Open
2 days
RotterdaM Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.