• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:18
CEST 18:18
KST 01:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists14[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced11Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid21
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: Tulbo in Ro.16 Group A BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data needed RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group A [ASL21] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1251 users

[MOD] FRB - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 All
yakitate304
Profile Joined April 2009
United States655 Posts
November 25 2014 00:25 GMT
#161
On November 24 2014 09:19 jcr2001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2014 14:16 jcr2001 wrote:
Does anyone know exactly what happened to this idea? From what I understand, it seems like it wasn't favoured because it just had the same deathball problems, just slower, and on 4 base. Are they implying that it's a unit design issue? It also looks like it wasn't really tested in HotS, after all those crazy changes to promote aggression came in.


In general, we found that when people were playing macro-oriented styles, games did tend to be scrappier and feature more multi-pronged play. One issue from the tournament that we ran is that this was just a one-time thing for these players, and only a few of them played on FRB maps at all leading up to the event, so there was a lot of early cheese that ended games quickly. As a result of the changed economy, players didn't know how to defend the early aggression, and there weren't enough games played or attention given to the gamemode for a real meta or standardized builds to develop. That being said, there were some really interesting games. The optimist in me believes that if players were to play FRB over the course of several months, we would start to see a healthier balance between early aggression, viable expansion defense, and exciting games.

Ah yes, I remember watching your casts back when it was 6m1g FRB. Thank you for casting those games!

What exactly do you mean by "scrappier"? Is that in some sense, the aim of the experiment: to encourage all-over-the-map action? I thought it was a good idea but I never saw any games from it and HotS came out.

I'd like to see Blizzard experiment more with economy rates to encourage multi-base play than just putting a timer on players. Then again, everything needs testing; maybe Blizzard's idea is better.

Thanks for the support but I actually never casted! I was just the person who assembled the tournament lineup and pull in the small amount of sponsorship and extra broadcasting (on the now defunct cybersports.tv) that we received. Senex and Pull were the two casters, both for general community FRB games and the eventual tournament.

And yes, by "scrappier" I did mean that the macro games we saw featured more action taking place with smaller armies at different spots on the map. Since expansions were more numerous, people needed to split their army more in order to either do damage to their opponent without losing a base of their own, or to defend/attack in multiple spots. It could just be confirmation bias on my part, though!
Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft
jcr2001
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Singapore53 Posts
November 25 2014 05:59 GMT
#162
On November 25 2014 09:25 yakitate304 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2014 09:19 jcr2001 wrote:
On November 20 2014 14:16 jcr2001 wrote:
Does anyone know exactly what happened to this idea? From what I understand, it seems like it wasn't favoured because it just had the same deathball problems, just slower, and on 4 base. Are they implying that it's a unit design issue? It also looks like it wasn't really tested in HotS, after all those crazy changes to promote aggression came in.


In general, we found that when people were playing macro-oriented styles, games did tend to be scrappier and feature more multi-pronged play. One issue from the tournament that we ran is that this was just a one-time thing for these players, and only a few of them played on FRB maps at all leading up to the event, so there was a lot of early cheese that ended games quickly. As a result of the changed economy, players didn't know how to defend the early aggression, and there weren't enough games played or attention given to the gamemode for a real meta or standardized builds to develop. That being said, there were some really interesting games. The optimist in me believes that if players were to play FRB over the course of several months, we would start to see a healthier balance between early aggression, viable expansion defense, and exciting games.

Ah yes, I remember watching your casts back when it was 6m1g FRB. Thank you for casting those games!

What exactly do you mean by "scrappier"? Is that in some sense, the aim of the experiment: to encourage all-over-the-map action? I thought it was a good idea but I never saw any games from it and HotS came out.

I'd like to see Blizzard experiment more with economy rates to encourage multi-base play than just putting a timer on players. Then again, everything needs testing; maybe Blizzard's idea is better.

Thanks for the support but I actually never casted! I was just the person who assembled the tournament lineup and pull in the small amount of sponsorship and extra broadcasting (on the now defunct cybersports.tv) that we received. Senex and Pull were the two casters, both for general community FRB games and the eventual tournament.

And yes, by "scrappier" I did mean that the macro games we saw featured more action taking place with smaller armies at different spots on the map. Since expansions were more numerous, people needed to split their army more in order to either do damage to their opponent without losing a base of their own, or to defend/attack in multiple spots. It could just be confirmation bias on my part, though!

Ah right, my bad! I should have read the post more carefully.

If such games were occurring in WoL, I wonder how it'd be like in HotS. I think this idea ought to have another try
fenix404
Profile Joined May 2011
United States305 Posts
November 25 2014 07:38 GMT
#163
i'm gonna be trying this myself. the economy changes have me all excited for experimenting, and i didnt get to mess with this one yet.

we may have to see different maps designed just for these kinds of changes, to see the full effects. im watching one on tal'darim altar, and i'm pretty sure something like cloud kingdom or daybreak may make this work better. obv much testing is still required.
"think for yourself, question authority"
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
November 25 2014 10:23 GMT
#164
On November 15 2014 12:04 Timetwister22 wrote:
However, spreading out across the map should be a decision that can help define a player's skill, not an act forced upon the player to just stay even in the game. Forcing or greatly limiting the decisions in a competitive RTS is generally a bad idea. Hence why I like the logic behind FRB. If my understanding is correct, FRB encourages expanding instead of forcing it, and grants benefits to players who take more than 3 mining bases. Thus, I like FRB better, and would greatly like Blizzard to try out FRB, or a similar variation of it, in the LotV beta.

If the reward is big enough, it is more or less a forced upon the player who wants to be successful.

Since SC2 has a quite large playerbase already, I understand Blizzard's approach to not completely redesign the economy, but to work within an established gameplay. Having twice as much workers to begin with and only 1000 minerals per patch is easy to understand.

You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
Prev 1 7 8 9 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
16:00
Ro24 Group C
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
Liquipedia
SC Evo League
13:30
SEL Doubles #2
SteadfastSC217
BRAT_OK 80
LiquipediaDiscussion
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
12:00
Group C
WardiTV965
TKL 277
Rex90
3DClanTV 39
EnkiAlexander 39
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 346
Hui .283
TKL 277
SteadfastSC 223
Rex 90
BRAT_OK 78
Railgan 56
Vindicta 46
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 29281
Calm 5297
Horang2 1247
Mini 664
BeSt 520
firebathero 441
actioN 261
ggaemo 197
Soulkey 194
Nal_rA 181
[ Show more ]
Mind 130
Last 93
EffOrt 89
Pusan 80
Sexy 69
910 45
Sharp 39
Hyun 37
Aegong 33
Rock 28
Backho 28
Terrorterran 25
Dewaltoss 19
soO 13
GoRush 12
ivOry 6
Movie 4
Barracks 1
Dota 2
Gorgc7325
qojqva1496
League of Legends
Reynor57
Counter-Strike
fl0m6968
olofmeister2741
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor531
Liquid`Hasu410
Other Games
FrodaN1253
Mlord532
Beastyqt517
B2W.Neo453
DeMusliM257
Mew2King65
Trikslyr50
QueenE44
KnowMe29
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream11389
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream2223
Other Games
BasetradeTV368
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 51
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach39
• FirePhoenix9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1023
League of Legends
• Jankos2483
• TFBlade1158
Other Games
• Shiphtur125
Upcoming Events
BSL
2h 43m
UltrA vs KwarK
Gosudark vs cavapoo
dxtr13 vs HBO
Doodle vs Razz
Patches Events
5h 43m
CranKy Ducklings
7h 43m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
17h 43m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
18h 43m
Ladder Legends
22h 43m
BSL
1d 2h
StRyKeR vs rasowy
Artosis vs Aether
JDConan vs OyAji
Hawk vs izu
IPSL
1d 2h
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
1d 16h
Wardi Open
1d 17h
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
1d 17h
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 23h
RSL Revival
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Escore
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Ladder Legends
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W3
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.