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vgman20
5 Posts
I do think that gold might be a bit easy to take, especially for a terran late game with PFs and tanks. Also, if you can control that Xel Naga tower, you can basically guarantee your posession of the gold, since you should be able to spot any attacks. Perhaps simply moving the tower could make it more dangerous to defend, not to mention opening new tactical potential with using the tower to head off various attacks. So far, really good, really want to play it | ||
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SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
I want to thank everyone who's taken the time to comment: I will get to individual responses in the morning. For now I just want to say that I have successfully uploaded v1.1 to the EU server, thanks in part to not being a moron a ticking the "private release" radio button. I hope that those of you kind enough to play on Ilio Volta will do me the honour of forwarding you replays. I'd very much like to analyze them! I've also updated the OP with all the relevant changes (except for the analyzer stuff) and a small explanation of how I see certain late game scenarios playing out. Thanks to Superouman, I based the explanation on his. Thank you for reading! | ||
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SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
Just responding individually to comments: Akinokaze: Thank you! I think I still have some way to go though. I'm enjoying it, so I think you will see more maps from me. redoxx: Thank you: it's published publicly on the EU server, and I'd love to get it published on NA should anyone be willing to assist me - I don't have a NA account. As for the gold: I think, as newbowman said, it will become a problem in ZvP and TvZ. Especially in TvZ it would take the gold and just keep rallying units to Zerg's third and denying his fourth. I don't know what the correct solution is though, so I'm leaving it like that until I have enough information. I think one possibility is making it blue mineral expansion but with one rich vespene geyser. neobowman: Thank you for your critiques, sir, I highly appreciate them. I've fixed up some of those really straight lines and will also add more polish to those out-of-play areas at a later stage. Natural to natural has, according to the analyzer, a rush distance of 128.8 (I don't quite recall how this translates into game seconds though. The mains are awkwardly shape and I think its largely due to the starting locations being so close to the ramps as well: I've tried to fix this a little in the latest version, I hope it feels better (if it doesn't Ill make some plan with the layout of the mains. I've widened the areas around the third somewhat, and whilst they're still relatively easy to forcefield, I'm hoping that the multiple avenue of attack will allow a good, Stephano-esque Zerg to wear down an inferior Protoss opponent. I do want those thirds to be defensible by a good player, and I do want attacking players to be encouraged to split off parts of their main army to hit multiple locations at once. Again, I really appreciate your comments, and I'm the process of etsting out the map whilst keeping all your comments in mind. Thanks! looknohands119: My apologies, the latest joke in my comedy of technically inept errors was to release them privately and to tell everyone to go play it. There's a public release now! A1m: Thank you sir, you are too kind. Hopefully it will only get better! vgman20: Thank you very much. I hope to see some split-map scenarios too, but hopefully it won't become stale like Shakuras with everyone attacking down the centre. With all the pathways and attack routes, I hope to see people frequently being caught out of position. I like good maps that are tough to play, where 1A doesn't work and where you have to think really hard about where you want to be attacking and where you want to be expanding. The gold is a problem, but I'm unsure as to how to solve it. So for the time being I'm leaving it there and will try to test it and gather information so I can make a good change and not just any change. I think I want it to be different somehow to a normal base. Thank you everyone for your comments, they've been most helpful. As mentioned, I'm aware of the issues surrounding the gold bases. I'm not sure how to solve them currently, and I want to gather more information on how they function on this map. So if you happen to play around on this map, please send me the replays. I would love to see your games on it! Thank you for reading> | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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CaptainHaz
United States240 Posts
The aesthetics are also just awesome, well done overall. | ||
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AssyrianKing
Australia2115 Posts
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SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
WniO: Haha, yes I am a self-confessed Volta's witness, spreading the good word of the Mars wherever I can. Seemed to fit, haven't questioned it yet. Detail shots are now in the OP and at the bottom of this post! CaptainHaz: You, sir, are too kind. I appreciate the complements, and will continue to work on it! And yes, I am in dire need of some games on this map. I now have a credits and acknowledgements section, and anyone submitting useful replays will definitely be mentioned at the very least. PiPoGevy: Thank you! The latest addition to the OP: Bases and Aesthetics: + Show Spoiler + Also, as mentioned, I am in dire need of some replays on this map (no-shenanigans 1v1s, not Funday Mondays) . So, anyone who sends me useful replays will be credited in the OP. Any exploits, exposition of mistakes, abusive plays are especially welcome - I need to know if anything is broken - but don't let that stop you from sending me all your games on this map! Thank you for reading> | ||
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ghostCatalyst
Philippines39 Posts
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AssyrianKing
Australia2115 Posts
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clever_us
United States329 Posts
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ULuMuGuLu
190 Posts
We all should support this guy and tell everyone about this map. This one has to become more popular! Edit: There's only one thing i have to criticize and thats the name of the map. Its easier to spread the word about this map with a name that fits the style of it and is kinda simple. iLio Volta sounds kinda akward. Edit2: Ok so heres one thing. I just played the map and have to say that i generally love it a lot. What i dont like is the entrance to your natural expand. Its too small i guess. It creates strange protoss walloffs, and favors both, zerg and Terran in the way, that u really dont need many spines/evo chamber to make that entrance smaller (against helion openers). On the other hand u are pretty much well defended against any pressure from Protoss/Zerg cause u can really quick Walloff with your first 2 structures and a depot. So its extremely easy to take that 2nd for terran because u can even defend against a 6 pool when u go 2rax expand. Thats one thing i noticed. So what u basically need is to make that entrance wider. Another thing is that coloring. I really like the indirect lights everywhere on the map. From the Green lights in the main base, to the red lights in the natural expand and so on. BUT the colors seem a bit too bright dude. The game looks like a cartoon :-S dunno if there is a way to change the brightness of the colors but it really pisses me off to see my zealots/stalkers or even marines that look like shining pokemons. Like i said i really like your coloring in general on this map but the use of brightness is really a bit too much. On the screens it doesnt look like it but when u actually play the map its really disturbing. | ||
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SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
ghostCatalyst: Haha, yes it's pretty bright and colourful and I think I may have pushed the bloom feature to breaking point. PiPoGevy: No, unfortunately it is not. Is there an easy way or channel through which I could get it published on there? I'd be happy to mail the actual to map to someone if not. clever_us: Thank you so much, but I see that you're from the US so unless you have an EU account, you won't be able to find this map on B.net just yet. I'll try and get it published on there soon though, just need to find someone to help me! ULuMuGuLu: Too kind sir! I'm going to try my best to balance it out and make it fun for all three races. Also, whilst I'm rather proud of what I've been able to do on my second map, I feel that even in aesthetics this map is not quite where Cloud Kingdom is yet. Mine is a somewhat more flashy, but I've been studying Cloud Kingdom and it is so ridiculously well polished I'm almost intimidated. Almost  .I think the points you make are very valid: I've revisited the entrance to the natural and whilst it was 8 tiles before I've extended it to 9 tiles (so that it requires 3 3x3 structures to completely wall off). I play Zerg, so the only thing I know about walloffs is "FML." I also take your point about the saturation of the colours in-game. I've tweaked the settings somewhat and will continue to do so, but I definitely intend for the map to be colour and bright. This is the one area in which I'm taking a "risk": I really love being bold with colour and trying to throw as much colour at something before it breaks. I will however take a serious look at this and continue to tweak the values to get the optimal resultss Thank you, ULuMuGuLu, for your input. I really appreciate the compliments, the criticisms and the time you have taken in posting them! Ok so apart from the replies I only have a very minor update, listing the changes for v1.2 so far: + Show Spoiler + v1.1 - v1.2 currently: * Widened entrances to nat to 9 tiles so that 3 3x3 structures are required to block it off completely. * Natural mineral lines are no longer within siege range from the ramp/ledges at the gold bases * Destructible debris now block the Gold bases, making them more akin to those on Shattered Temple than Meta or Antiga * Lighting: Saturation decreased from 0.1 to 0.05 * Geysers no longer emit that hissing sound, making the map feel more space-like * The Global and Ambient Audio Reverbs have been set to "Dizzy" to contribute to the atmosphere * All sound emitters have been deleted * General polish and aesthetic improvments Note that v1.2 has not been published yet! I'm going to try and get the map to a "finished" state before doing so, so please let me know if you feel that anything else that needs change for v1.2! Thank you for reading> | ||
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
As far as the layout goes, I have a few observations. Firstly, it seems to suffer from circle syndrome a bit too much. The fifth base is far away enough from the opposing natural, probably, but it's pretty far away from other bases, and the width of the area you must defend to protect five bases or even four is pretty substantial. It's not too big of a deal, though, and not really unplayable, but maybe a little tough to get into the late game. It feels like the gold bases are free to the player who already has an advantage from center control. This is pretty bad, because it makes it too hard to come back against someone who has controlled the center area. This is something to keep in mind when placing bases. It's easy to put golds near the middle thinking they will be hard to defend, but that actually can have negative affects. I'm not sure why the fourth only has six mineral patches. I think eight would be good. The map overall just feels a little tight, with no real fields for big battles. It's nice to have a map with good contrast between the open and tight areas, but this map has a medium level of openness most everywhere. The only open places have bases on them. Removing the golds might turn their areas into suitable battlefields. I think maybe you should add another base in the corners, between the fourth and fifth, and remove the golds. A base in the corner like that might be a little easy to defend, though, so it could have a cliff over it you can drop on or something, maybe something with a more roundabout way up from by the current fifths, sort of like on Tal Darim Altar where you can have a fourth base overlooked by one of the mains. I don't know, though, these are just ideas. | ||
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ULuMuGuLu
190 Posts
No problem. I'll put as much analyses into this map as possible to make this one happen. Just give me a notice when 1.2 is released and i'll take a deeper look at it again. =) | ||
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Reeevolt
Australia15 Posts
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Vari
United States532 Posts
LOVE the colors. <3 and it looks good to play too, third is far from free but lategame bases are within reach. | ||
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SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
Ulumugulu: Thank you. V1.2 is in the works, I think I'll have it ready soon. Reeevolt: Thanks you so much sir, I hope you will try it  !Vari: Many thanks, I appreciate the compliments. And Happy Birthday sir! I just wanted to pop in and say that I'm still busy working on this map despite being ridiculously busy and finding myself with a copy of ME3. In the meantime, Polygon has been so kind as to host the map on the NA server for me, and to boot the one on the NA server is an updated version from the one on EU, and represents the current state of v1.2. I'm still looking for games on this map, so anyone who has played on here please don't hesitate to send me your replays! I'd love to have a look at them. Thank you all> | ||
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SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
Version 1.2 has finally been published on EU and, to boot, I've updated the overview OP. The map also finally sports a real Loading Screen. Any comments, criticisms and verdicts are still more than welcome - not to mention replays! Updated Change Log: + Show Spoiler + v1.0 -> v1.1: * Broke up straight lines along sides of map. * Moved destructible rocks to help defend third, not block it off * Widened passage going from third toward Xel'Naga towers * Tweaked the ledge overlooking the choke into the natural, less abusable now. * Widened ramps flanking the Xel'Naga Towers * Widened passage from 4th to 5th bases * Removed Columns outside of the naturals * Cleaned up topology in the Naturals * Try to improve the awkward shape of the main bases * Optimized and improved lights * Added supply depot to bottom of ramps to prevent wall-ins. * General polish and aesthetic improvements v1.1 Large Overview v1.1 - v1.2 (Current) * Gold bases have been changed to normal bases, eliminating some circle syndrome and solving balance better. * All bases now have 8 mineral patches and 2 geysers. This may be changed in the future depending on balance. * The natural is no longer siegable from the cw third bases (used to be the gold) * Slightly improved the symmetry of the map * Widened entrances to nat to 9 tiles so that 3 3x3 structures are required to block it off completely. * Natural mineral lines are no longer within siege range from the ramp/ledges at cw third (formerly gold bases) * Lighting: Saturation decreased from 0.1 to 0.05 * Geysers no longer emit that hissing sound, making the map feel more space-like * The Global and Ambient Audio Reverbs have been set to "Dizzy" to contribute to the atmosphere * All sound emitters have been deleted * A good deal of additional aesthetic improvements, including more refined texture painting and extra doodads * Ilio Volta has acquired its own loading screen, engineered by yours truly. To Do: Update the Wall-off screenshots to reflect change in natural choke. Thank you for reading> | ||
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SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
On March 06 2012 06:40 Gfire wrote: Colors do have higher saturation on low settings, where a lot of players play. It's important you don't make it too saturated for those players as well. Personally I find Braxis Alpha lighting to be a perfect example of a more saturated lighting without overdoing it. As far as the layout goes, I have a few observations. Firstly, it seems to suffer from circle syndrome a bit too much. The fifth base is far away enough from the opposing natural, probably, but it's pretty far away from other bases, and the width of the area you must defend to protect five bases or even four is pretty substantial. It's not too big of a deal, though, and not really unplayable, but maybe a little tough to get into the late game. It feels like the gold bases are free to the player who already has an advantage from center control. This is pretty bad, because it makes it too hard to come back against someone who has controlled the center area. This is something to keep in mind when placing bases. It's easy to put golds near the middle thinking they will be hard to defend, but that actually can have negative affects. I'm not sure why the fourth only has six mineral patches. I think eight would be good. The map overall just feels a little tight, with no real fields for big battles. It's nice to have a map with good contrast between the open and tight areas, but this map has a medium level of openness most everywhere. The only open places have bases on them. Removing the golds might turn their areas into suitable battlefields. I think maybe you should add another base in the corners, between the fourth and fifth, and remove the golds. A base in the corner like that might be a little easy to defend, though, so it could have a cliff over it you can drop on or something, maybe something with a more roundabout way up from by the current fifths, sort of like on Tal Darim Altar where you can have a fourth base overlooked by one of the mains. I don't know, though, these are just ideas. Thank you sir. I think the lighting is good now, it reads as "very blue" but the visual mechanics seem to be in tact. I've removed the gold entirely, and helped eliminate the circle syndrome by replacing them with a normal base. I've also fixed the fourth - I think it was a gimmicky decision, as I wanted to encourage taking the fifth as well but it doesn't work. I agree completely about the space issue - everything is of medium openness. In my testing, I haven't found it to be broken (and I play Zerg) but I have found it a tad annoying to always feel out of position with the more complex flanks this map seems to bring out in me. I think it might make some battles less interesting, like deathball vs deathball games and possible also TvT... I'll keep it mind because I agree with you and would like to see if I can make something work. For now though, I''ve kept it as is because I'm not sure where to start - I'll need more games. | ||
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
The bases seem too close together in general. If the map was larger, it would seem much more balanced and the rush distance would larger. I suggest stretching everything so that everything is farther away. Other than that... The middle bases seem impossible to grab if the player was aggresive. I think, just my opinion, i think you should give it less mineral patches but a rich mineral geyser like Daybreak But very beautiful map and great work done! | ||
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