EPT[A] Starbow - Page 446
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
The sentinel will help in that regard. No need to nerf hydra, and in with roach to get that more "none-less-defensive-style" | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On October 11 2013 10:02 Kabel wrote: Foxxan are you 1000000000000000000000000000000000% sure Dragoon range upgrade BT is 146 seconds? I sent you a pm about that. BW BT is 166, so converted to SC2 it is 146. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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MavercK
Australia2181 Posts
geeezzzzz *runs and hides* | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
1) Tried to make it more clean, logicwise(no 6extra damage to certain type etc) 2) Now with core bw value, arbiter needs to stand still to cast statis(takes around 2sec to stand still from moving), stuff like this. Terran - Keep the boost on dropship Goliath + Show Spoiler + - Transform ability: Requires upgrade to unlock. When in airmode, cant shoot, only move When in groundmode, functions just like normal goliath - Buff ground damage to 20explosive damage, Marauder Picture him same as now. Tweaks: + Show Spoiler + cost: 100/25/2 35BT - 20explosive damage - armored - 125hp, 1armor Protoss Sentinel + Show Spoiler + Sphere ability redesigned to my old suggestion. (will cost 25mana) - Armored - Give him mana barn(drains all mana), instant cast, 5range (75mana) New ability: Magicbomb, requires upgrade (100mana) - After 4seconds(channel for 4sec), releases a bomb underneath himself that do 80explosive damage over 3x3 area. Ignores armor New unit: Hybrid destroyer <- editor name Tweaked since my last idea quite alot + Show Spoiler + Robotic unit, hovers. Can walk up/down cliffs, Mana user. Spellcaster, armored. No base armor (No auto attack) With an upgrade(on robotic support bay)-> regenerates 50mana, every2sec. Can store 100 max mana - Armored, 40hp, 140shield - Needs 50mana to use his spell(which triggers auto when enough mana) - 10explosive damage, which bounces up to 4times for: 200%/250%/300%/350% (ignores armor) - His spell takes one second to get off(animation), a fast projectile that always goes in a straight line(fast meleeunits can dance around him etc) - Cant hit burrowed units, or hover units. - 50/100/2 35BT cost, 8range. Zerg - If queens gets back, have him morph from larva new unit: Roach + Show Spoiler + -Armored - 75/25/1, same BT as hydra - Requires lairtech, (roachwarren-> 150/50 cost, 40BT) - Movement speed, 2.5 100hp, 2armor, 16normal damage, 1.75attack speed. Same attacksystem like hydralisk.Range 2.5 Burrow ability Moves while burrowed. - Passive speed while burrowed(triggers after 2sec)-> 3.5(no cooldown), takes 50% reduced splash damage. - After receiving damage while burrowed-> First hit: Moves at 2.75 Second hit: Moves at 2.25 - Can move under structures Viper + Show Spoiler + Same as in starbow. Only tweak: - Abduct can only hit air(even massive) Concerns: + Show Spoiler + Goliath buff wont do much in tvz: - Hydras still trade costeffective - Abduct will be of great use in general against terran: Good versus, Valkyries, goliath(airform), and scienvevessels. - Muta, still a very good weapon - If terran goes heavy valkyries and goliaths(flies around the map), zerg can use devourers and mutas(and ensnare on viper) - Terranbio is just better overall than mech TvP Goliath will shake things up for sure in this mu: - Will be used as a core unit, not just versus air but also versus ground. - Threatens dragoons alot more(still do not tradecosteffective) -> Which opens up alot more strategy and openings. We will for sure see more use of dropplay. Goliaths potential threat are always gonna be frontattack->or transform attack(somewhere else). The new sentinel spell is adjusted of this new mobile goliath. - Sentinel very mobile - Goliath very mobile - Sentinel very powerful ability-> goliath very powerful AA(can kill him before he plants it) Ghost, defiler, and viper can still get more tweaks or redesigns. One potential thing i would like to see is the infestor model back(move while burrow) for zerg, with some good/fun spells | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
SIege upgrade also takes a lot longer due to tech lab addon. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On October 11 2013 17:23 Hider wrote: With CB, isn't range upgrade supposed to take longer to research than in BW? SIege upgrade also takes a lot longer due to tech lab addon. Fair point. But then we'd need to modify everything if we are trying to be fair to that. Z tech buildings included due to nurturing swarm. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
- Roach vs Vulture IMO looked like a more fun micro battle than Hydra vs Vulture (which was Hydra favored prepatch). - I think we solved the issue of A) Not making Stalker hardcounter Vultures while B) still giving both the Stalker and the Dragoon a clear role in each matchup. On October 11 2013 17:36 decemberscalm wrote: Fair point. But then we'd need to modify everything if we are trying to be fair to that. Z tech buildings included due to nurturing swarm. I think we have done regarding zerg. At least previously lair and spire took 20 seconds longer. 100hp, 2armor, 16normal damage, Have to admit I like the 1-armor approach a bit better. I think with 2-armor if will just never ever die to Vultures-shots. While it definitely should be able to tank a lot against Vultures I think (145/3) 49 shots is overkill. I prefer the approach of making Spider Mines good vs Roaches (but not insanely strong) and Vultures default attack bad (but not awfull/useless) vs Roaches. But flat damage is definitely something I agree with you. I think with your 2.5 range we could go even higher up than 16. Sc2 roach is 4 range, 25 mins and 25 gas cheaper and deals 16 flat. With a 100/50 roach I could easily see flat damage of 20-22 (assuming range 2.5) be balanced. I know Kabel want it to have the reverse damage system from Hydralisks (which are good vs armored and bad vs light), but I think it already functions so different from Hydralisk with a normal flat damage. For instance it doesn't need to have bonus damage vs light to be usefull/good vs Vultures, Marines and Zealots. It will already be good vs those units with a strong flat damage. Rather I fear that if we A) Buff it) and B) Maintain the extra damage vs light, that it will just hardcounter light units too badly. Thus, a Roach damage buff to 18 vs everything while maintaing the 3 attack-range would be my suggested approach. That doesn't imply that its gonna fix everything in practice, but from a theoretical POV i could see it be balanced. Another thing that worries me a bit in PvT is the extra costs for protoss related to dealing with Vulture/Tanks in the early game/early midgame. If you need to invest in both range upgrade for Dragoons and Stalkers, then certain timings will be a bit stronger than in BW. Its tough to say how large of an issue this is, but I wouldn't mind seeing these two changes; - Dragoon attack speed changed to BW value - Dragoon and Stalkers share same range upgrade The sharing of range upgrade will make it alot easier and less costly to mix Dragoons and Stalkers together. Kabel I know you are considering to get rid of all the Stalker/Roach thing, but won't it just turn into a Sc2bw clone? And isn't the reason why Sbow is more popular than Sc2bw due to the fact that we are willing to test new things that potentially could improve the gameplay? While improving the gameplay isn't easy, isn't it something worth striving for? | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
With CB, isn't range upgrade supposed to take longer to research than in BW? No why? Whats the point of CB than if everything is increased in bt for protoss. Toss sacrafices eco/production for faster upgrades. Have to admit I like the 1-armor approach a bit better. I think with 2-armor if will just never ever die to Vultures-shots With 2 armor, it gives roach easiertime versus zealots and marines. Versus the vult it only reduces a total of 0.5 damage. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
No why? Whats the point of CB than if everything is increased in bt for protoss. Toss sacrafices eco/production for faster upgrades. CB gives protoss options. Do they want to play a pressure oriented game or a defensive econmic based games. I think if we don't adjust research upgrades, then pressure plays could be too strong. Point of macromechanics isn't to make certain stuff a lot stronger relative to BW, but to add more options and reward mechanics a bit more. Versus the vult it only reduces a total of 0.5 damage. How do you come to the 0.5 damage? | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
CB gives protoss options. Do they want to play a pressure oriented game or a defensive econmic based games. I think if we don't adjust research upgrades, then pressure plays could be too strong. And by increasing the buildtime, it reduces the flavor of CB. Whats the point of having CB if every BT is increased. How do you come to the 0.5 damage? I think each armor reduces 0.25 damage versus vulture because he do 25% damage to armored | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
I think each armor reduces 0.25 damage versus vulture because he do 25% damage to armored Each armor reduces the damage of each attack by 1. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On October 11 2013 19:39 Hider wrote: Each armor reduces the damage of each attack by 1. Its either 0.5 or 0.25, iam not sure. Yes, against normal damage the armor reduce it by 1 or if the unit do 100% damage to that certain unit, also 1 but in the case of vulture vs roach, its not 1. Its 0.25 or 0.5. Dont know if minimum is 0.5 or not edit:Ok, the actual recuction is: 0.25, i tested it. No minimum so 2armor on roach is absolutely fine in my eyes | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
Its %-based so armor is not as powerful against units that already do reduced damage. I liked your suggestion to make Marauders Explosive damage, as this will make them function in this way too. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Which means that the Stalker Vulture as it was yesterday. Still no macro mechanincs. Reaper require tech lab. Marauders already do explosive damage. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On October 11 2013 20:11 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: Hider forgets that the vulture uses the BW damage system... Its %-based so armor is not as powerful against units that already do reduced damage. I liked your suggestion to make Marauders Explosive damage, as this will make them function in this way too. OK didn't know that. Anyone have a link to BW armor system explained? | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
(20-3)*0.5 = 8,5 damage instead of the SC2 system where it would do: (20*0.5)-3 = 7 damage The formula is: Damage = ([base damage] - [armor reduction]) * [Type reduction] | ||
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