EPT[A] Starbow - Page 27
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PrsdntKmacho
United States19 Posts
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
- Queen don´t lay permanent eggs anymore. Instead the eggs lasts 60 seconds. Something about reaver scarabs too. You seem to be deliberately introducing a number of irritating mechanics that just make it harder to play mechanically. That doesn't help the game or improve it in any way. If you want it to have demanding mechanics, make the game more complex and require more multitasking. Obnoxious UI mechanics are awful, lets find something better to spend the APM on. | ||
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
FRB and the "BW-model" has been uploaded for some days now. The problem with FRB: Each base requires 24+3 workers to be fully saturated. There is no reason to have more than 4 bases anyway because 4x27 workers are half your supply. The income in the start is really slow, meaning that its a very long early game with a slow income acceleration. (Since each worker generates so little income per minute) The problem with the "BW-model": Players get extremely rich once they grab the third base. Each base generates to much money. (Even though the amount is still lower than an SC2 base, its still to much.) Unspendable amounts if you reach 4 or 5 bases. The optimal would be: A faster income acceleration at the start. More money in the beginning = more options. Each fully saturated base generates less income compared to a SC2 base, Each base requires "fewer" workers, meaning that players are able to expand more. (And have supply for workers) I think games which involves many bases on both sides tends to be funniest to both play and watch. Thats why I try to implement aspects of area control. It shall be a risk to take an expansion, but you will have acess to the right tools so you can defend it properly. Something I feel SC2 lacks and BW has plenty of. I ain´t satisfied with either of the two models. But with some tweaking I think we will hit jackpot ^^ I told Barrin this, lemme explain: You want expanding to occur frequently so that players spread out as much as possible. Ideally, base raids that wipe out an expansion aren't game ending too. Instead of blue minerals, use all gold minerals- I think it's 4 gold minerals to get a 1 base income off such a base. In that way there's incentive to expand until you're up to about 6-8 mining bases, and the setup cost of each expansion is much lower. Further, losing one will not end the game and they force you to spread out and multitask like crazy. Related to my post directly above, this would sink a player's apm into multitasking actions rather than just annoying mechanics like no autocast on scarabs and such. For an idea of how this would play out, check out some Dawn of War 1 or Dawn of War soulstorm games, Vaul casted some good ones: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL558EBD82D0B4D03E&feature=plcp (dow was good in so many ways, but horribly unbalanced and the devs didn't fix the problems. The food caps in it were very restricting too. too bad...) | ||
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hersenen
Belize176 Posts
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
How about making them a mobile, fragile harassment unit? Double their speed, make them 1/4 the size, non-massive (or skinny yet still tall so vikings can hit them); cut their hp and damage and make them a mobile, fragile med-long-range harassment unit. Give them forcefields too, even better harassment  At least cliffwalk would be handy then. They'd be super powerful, but if they were tall and skinny you could counter them as they crop up with vikings, and besides: overpowered units are what made sc1 fun. Just gotta give lots of them to every race.Of course, you'd have to make forcefield an upgrade, not a default ability, maybe tier 3. It would help prevent those lame timing attacks where toss forcefields your ramp early game and smashes your natural or your main because of one tiny slip-up. I think it would be fun. Stealing ff from sentries wouldn't hurt my feelings either, I don't like sentries at all. I mean... do you? | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
You can find that here: www.twitch.tv/mndakota On July 06 2012 12:46 Natespank wrote: I think it would be fun. Stealing ff from sentries wouldn't hurt my feelings either, I don't like sentries at all. I mean... do you? Forcefield is currently on the dark archon which I think it okay! | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1979 Posts
On July 06 2012 12:46 Natespank wrote: My 2 cents on colossus: they're awful. How about making them a mobile, fragile harassment unit? Double their speed, make them 1/4 the size, non-massive (or skinny yet still tall so vikings can hit them); cut their hp and damage and make them a mobile, fragile med-long-range harassment unit. Give them forcefields too, even better harassment At least cliffwalk would be handy then. They'd be super powerful, but if they were tall and skinny you could counter them as they crop up with vikings, and besides: overpowered units are what made sc1 fun. Just gotta give lots of them to every race.Of course, you'd have to make forcefield an upgrade, not a default ability, maybe tier 3. It would help prevent those lame timing attacks where toss forcefields your ramp early game and smashes your natural or your main because of one tiny slip-up. I think it would be fun. Stealing ff from sentries wouldn't hurt my feelings either, I don't like sentries at all. I mean... do you? its true that every race had some imba units in sc1 but too many isnt good either also forcefield is a micro killing ability | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1979 Posts
On July 06 2012 12:09 Natespank wrote: I told Barrin this, lemme explain: You want expanding to occur frequently so that players spread out as much as possible. Ideally, base raids that wipe out an expansion aren't game ending too. Instead of blue minerals, use all gold minerals- I think it's 4 gold minerals to get a 1 base income off such a base. In that way there's incentive to expand until you're up to about 6-8 mining bases, and the setup cost of each expansion is much lower. Further, losing one will not end the game and they force you to spread out and multitask like crazy. Related to my post directly above, this would sink a player's apm into multitasking actions rather than just annoying mechanics like no autocast on scarabs and such. For an idea of how this would play out, check out some Dawn of War 1 or Dawn of War soulstorm games, Vaul casted some good ones: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL558EBD82D0B4D03E&feature=plcp (dow was good in so many ways, but horribly unbalanced and the devs didn't fix the problems. The food caps in it were very restricting too. too bad...) in starbow the income is already higher (a drone/probe/scv returns 8 minerals or 6 gas) also there is a reason for the non autocast of scarabs... you can actually deplete the amunition if the opponent is distracted by another attack or just isnt paying attention to it | ||
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
Just a quick brainstorm. It would be quite worthless in battles because the built up (explosion) is rather slow, specific timings can be argued for. It would be really good for harrassing since depending on it's speed, we either need a warp prism for it or not (arguable speed!). It could do a harrassing role on worker lines before incinerate since it has high damage versus small units. Once it has incinerate you can use it to harras the worker line and even armies because it has a quite large range combined with warp prism (speed) you could drop it outside of armies range, attack a unit or two (even target which unit you want because of animation cancel) and it would explode after a certain time, so the opponent also has to micro the unit out of his army. perhaps let it not work on massive units or something or perhaps it should work on massive units? All arguable. I just like the incinerate concept combined with the harrassing role (worker lines + army), kinda like vulture/reaver/science vessel. It would be great for defending your base since (perhaps we should make it slow?) it can attack units from uphill or on cliffs outranging a lot of units. The enemy will have to move the attacked units out of his army or suffer splash damage eventually. Because it takes quite some time for it to kill a unit, it won't be that good in deathballs since all those units can still do damage versus yours. You want stuff that kills fast in a deathball and the collussi won't do that. Or just another brainstorm idea: you could give the collussi a quick harrassing role (fragile, animation cancelling, splash/no splash) and then give it an upgrade 'stone form' or something. This way it turns into a sturdy, long range unit, immobile (like the siege tank). So again it wouldn't be that useful in deathballs because turning into the stone form could take same time as rooting a spine crawler or something. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
Zerg just doesn't feel the same without spawn larva for some reason. Love the lurkers though. Really love it. I can never forgive Blizzard, lol. And as it stands I see absolutely no reason to get queens otherwise. Especially not when I have access to such an early hydra den. Also on Starbow Daybreak, you forgot to remove the extra geyser at the leftside 3rd. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Need some testers to try some things ^^ | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On July 07 2012 00:45 Qwyn wrote: Zerg just doesn't feel the same without spawn larva for some reason/ Instead of worrying about your bases. Let's worry about the fight! | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
No one has been on all day.  | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1979 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=335595 | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
On July 03 2012 19:45 TaShadan wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349968 check this out This one is already implemented in the MOD. On July 07 2012 17:23 TaShadan wrote: you should think about one of these http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=335595 Sounds interesting. I would prefer damage reduction over miss chance, since it is not random/luck based. I will try one of them in the coming future. | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1979 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
Anyways I'm glad MM was put into it as I think that can only bring good things. About the high ground advantage, one thing to keep in mind is that it's not really random. BW had a lot of gambling, and while it might be seen as luck, it's really about instinct, taking chances, and calculating percentages. It might seem random to make it a percentage based chance to hit highground or miss, but it's really analyzing the situation and taking a gamble that you think is in your favor. Anyways, I wouldn't be completely against a damage reduction instead of percentage based chance, I'm just saying that percentage chance shouldn't just be seen as random and luck. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
On July 07 2012 19:13 pzea469 wrote: I really like this. I haven't tried the mod, but what I mean is I like this type of effort on making changes for yourself with the help of the community. I strongly believe that a game edited and balanced by members of the community will make much better esports. So bravo for that. I'll be sure to check it out very soon. Anyways I'm glad MM was put into it as I think that can only bring good things. About the high ground advantage, one thing to keep in mind is that it's not really random. BW had a lot of gambling, and while it might be seen as luck, it's really about instinct, taking chances, and calculating percentages. It might seem random to make it a percentage based chance to hit highground or miss, but it's really analyzing the situation and taking a gamble that you think is in your favor. Anyways, I wouldn't be completely against a damage reduction instead of percentage based chance, I'm just saying that percentage chance shouldn't just be seen as random and luck. Thank you Yeah this is still a MOD under heavy development. Things changes, are added or removed. Ideas are tried. Nothing is final. Some things are starting to settle, and we are a bunch of people who plays it regulary on the EU server. I aim to get a "really playable version" up before the end of July. I mean a version that has almost everything (units, abilities etc) decided. I will then add better info at the opening post and try to spread the word in a much better way than now. I also try to get help from the community, as now, where people here discuss and comes with ideas and feedback. | ||
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PrsdntKmacho
United States19 Posts
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