[Mapping Challenge] #1 Asymmetric Maps - Page 7

FlopTurn Reaver: This map is very well thought out in the aspect that every spawn location has about the same expanding pattern andtiming. It almost feels a bit too symmetric. In fact there are not many things about the map that really are asymmetric. It's more of a 2 player mirrored reflection symmetry map, but with 4 spawn locations. I'm sure this map would actually play out fairly well and more balanced than most of the other submissions.

Monitor: I love how the spawns are actually very well balanced despite not seeing any symmetry in the spawn positions. Very clever with the mineral only and top right bases.
My main complaint is that I can't really figure out any reason to make this map asymmetrical instead of symmetrical (other than the challenge) if the goal is to make as equal in each spawn as possible. For example, each main and natural is identical and most spawns have the same thrid/min only layout after that. I'd prefer some differentiating factors that balance out like a highground main, highground natural, inbase expansions in one spawn, etc. so that the gameplay is only achievable by asymmetry.

Samro: Dezi’s map is based on a very promising concept having all spawns in one half of the map, but has some imbalances that ultimatly lead to a gameplay which does not offer equal chances to both players in competitve and casual gaming - the differences occur when outside spawn plays inside spawn and one has more bases to expand away to. All four bases have a flat choke at Main and Nat, but different to the well known toss problems as seen on Tal'Darim Altar, the mains are defended by small highground cliffs. The two outside as well as the two inside bases are roughly the same, but differ with their setup of a third base which is harder to defend for outer spawns when expanding away and not towards the opponent. Dezi’s description states that there are imbalances, but they should be adressed: the very different situated thirds and then the even less clear concept for fourths make the map’s positional balance pretty hard to interpret. The flat chokes are difficult and the rusgdistances are a bit on the short side. The maps concept is really good though and the visual design is nice and clear.
Nice solution for a problematic concept, where one player basically expands forward while the other has to go backwards (5 vs 9, 7 vs 11). This is a concept that has to be elaborated on and this map is a good start with quite good visuals, too.

FlopTurbnReaver: This map is basically a 2 player mirrored reflection symmetry map but instead of a 2nd middle part it's a cutout of a 4 player rotational symmetry map. Spawning at top left&bottom right you probably wouldn't even notice it for the longest time. The 2 completely different symmetry types are very well worked together. The one thing I really have to critizise is the center. 3 expansions that close to each other is not a very good idea and I can't see it working out in an actual game. The creator should also work a bit on the openness. There are a few spots that are a tad too wide (especially between the XNT and the 3rd base of the top right spawn), in contrast to this the natural chokes of all the maps seem a bit too narrow. The textures are a bit random too, it's going in a good direction but still needs some work.

Monitor: Very clever, almost a reflection symmetry 3 player map (like Rush Hour in BW). As I said about Dezi's I feel like there isn't any reasoning behind why it is asymmetrical beside just for the contest. I think it would be cool to differentiate the spawns even more than they are now or just turn it into a symmetrical three player reflection map.
Balance seems pretty good. The third looks too far away from the natural, I can't imagine it being taken very often (lots of 2base all-ins). Also the top right spawn seems a little bit positionally imbalanced since there isn't a lowground third.

Samro: Glexarn’s map does not really qualify as there is axial as well as rotational symmetry – which in itself is not a bad concept at all, but needs to be applied with great attention. While the basic setup for all three mains, normals and thirds is the same, there are strong positional imbalances regarding the number of bases available. Only the 5 vs 11 spawns are ok in a way, the two other spawn setup both are flawed, as the number of expansions that are available varies i relation to the number of chokes and area to control. The visuals are clean, but also a bit too simplistic from my taste. Not asymmetric and same first three bases, yet imbalanced in late game. Good basic idea for a symmetry: needs to be elaborated! I have sth like that on my hdd, but also not polished enough.
Hurry up, fix the problems and be the develper of a new way of creating symmetry. Creating such a new design is not enough though. Try to balance the different spawns and bases and be more creative with the visuals.

FlopTurnReaver: This is just really confusing at the first glance. If we examine it further we see that the map isn't asymmetrical in the same sense as the other submissions. All the bases are exactly(?) the same on both sides and the routes are almost the same too. The only thing that really differes is the terrain which is unbelievabely gimmicky. There are 2 wide open fields in the middle and a lot of tiny tiny chokes. There's also a ton of wasted space and other features that don't really contribute to the map. However this is not about making a compeditively playable map so I guess the goal of the creator was reached, designing something that has never been made before. It looks dangerous and you have to be weary on several spots on this map to not get surprised and overrun.

Monitor: I think the mains, particularly the one bottom right, are too easy for air to harass which will make pushing out very difficult unless you have lots of AA or keep a significant portion of your army in the main. Just adjusting the bottom right main a little bit so it is easy to push out (the main factor is ground distance vs. air distance discrepancy).
I dislike so much wasted space because it just isn't efficient map design. I'd focus on shrinking the map and also adding more open space. A lot of the wasted space (level 0 lowground) makes many of the paths too small.
Good work with the positional expansion balance!


Samro: Quisk’ s map is really large and has an extreme rush distance. Also it has too many chokes. The availability of bases varys with the number of expansions. I think it is interesting, but does not work here. A more basic design, yet asymmetric, might be better to try such an experiment: e.g. easier third for one player, but he has to survive that long first, because his nat is more open. This would be extremly interesting, but needs much more work than this effort. Go and shrink everything and make a simpler terrain and polish the different distances and openess grades for the different bases and you will get somehing nice! Visuals are something i cannot see on this dark map.
Verdict: Live simply - that is okay - but with consciousness! The map is unplayable in its current state as it obviously does not consider normal scaling, nat to nat distance etc.

FlopTurnReaver: This map looks a bit like the creator didn't really know what he wanted to do with the terrain. The mains are huge, there are 2 parts on the left and right that are basically the same feature but with a different looks and in the middle we have a WniO island (yeah, that's exactly what I'm calling it!) I like the aspect that the vulnurabilities between the 2 spawns are so different. The bottom player has 1 inbase expansion but the next 2 are, while still faily close, forward towards the enemy. The top spawning player has 2 inbase expansions and only 1 towards the enemy which makes it easier to turtle, so no matter what races the 2 players will pick, the bottom player will always be encouraged to play more aggressive. Or both players will just play a classic BW 20min no rush game and fight for the center High Yield base in the end. What I really like about the map is that it also encourages air play. Maybe finally a map we could see some carrier play?

Monitor: Cool inbase expansion, but I think the top base is at an advantage because there are two inbase expansions instead of three (yes I know there are rocks, but it makes it more turtley than the bottom). To fix this, I think you should either make the second inbase in the top only have 1 gas. And you can also make the lowground third in the bottom more choked so it is easier to hold.

Samro: Lawol’s map basically is a ring around a winner’s gold on an island with four bases grouped together on each side. So far there is no asymmetry, but the setup of the mains, backdoors and openness of bases creates some asymmetry/ imbalances. One base has the backdor really far away, so it is hard to defend, while the other has two bases o low ground. In a way it balances out, but this is really hard to say i fit works. At least this map provides great fun matches, because you think about how to abuse the other’s position. Visuals are basic, but very solid. I think this in one of the better maps, because there is a clear concept of asymmetry, the layout is rather easy to read in can be played for fun. Verdict: Quite imbalanced for something almost symmetric, but is fun!

FlopTurnReaver: I heard this was one of the options for Blizzard to fix Meta close spawn. What strikes me first about this map is the expanding pattern. While 9 o'clock has a pretty confortable cw expanding opportunity with 5 expansions, the other 2 spawns are left with only 2 really confortable expansions, depending on the start location of the enemy. This map is really hard to see through. Basically there are just expansions at any places where there would be open space. I guess you could call it the smalles heavy macro map out there. I don't really know what more to say about this map. The lonely island is a cute idea too.

Monitor: Good work but I the top left main is going to have a really hard time taking a natural. I think it would be cool to make one of them a tiny bit easier to hold (like the one with rocks) but keep the third and fourth bases close.

Samro: Namrufus’ map basically is a really asymmetric interpretation on the Metalopolis theme with some interesting use of cliffs and ramps and a well constructed theme and visuals. While the distances of the first three bases is very similar, the number of chokes and wall-in options differ greatly. For more bases the problem is even bigger, but i do not expect all 15 bases to be taken. Tower and island placing add up, so this is a fun, but not very balanced candidate as far as i can analyse it. When doing a three player map one has to make sure it is no tone player who has an easier access into the neutral base. There are plenty of ideas, although many are known from metalopolis. I’d take this map, cut it into pieces and transform these into two or three 2player maps.

FlopTurnReaver: This is definitly one of my favourite submitted maps. Not only does it look very clean, but also doesn't it really matter where the 2 players spawn, it will always be a fairly balanced and fun game. Unless it's 3 o'clock vs 5 o'clock. That'd be terrible. In any other cases the map can be split very well no position really seems op. The dimensions are overall excellent, except for the a little too open middle. I can't really decide wether I like the options of army movement. There don't seem to be that many. It's either through the open middle, which you don't want to risk against a zerg, or the potentially very far path around the corner (talking about 11 vs 5 o'clock). Overall the map seems nice and fun the aesthetics are of course top, as I expected from fenX.

Monitor: Great aesethetic work. My biggest concern is the 11o'clock vs. 3o'clock spawn. When the players spawn here, the 11o'clock player has access to the bottom left of the map (6 expos) very easily, while the 3o'clock player has a much harder time getting past 4 bases without expanding very aggressively.

Samro: FenX’s map offers lots of different expansion layouts and strategies, ninja bases and in general quite some asymmetry while providing equal oppotunities for the first three bases at least. From then on players can develop race and playstyle specific strategies and use very different expansion option like islands, take control of the centre and one of the two gold bases. While some bases seem to better easier defendable than other that are prone to air or drop harass, leading to a nit perfect balance, it guarantees interesting matches and players have to develop knowledge of the terrain and learn how to play the map. Visually the map is clean, yet detailed and has a well developed theme: plains
It is a complex map concept and good execution that makes this map a serious take on asymetric mapping.

FlopTurnReaver: Oh right, this one. I guess I could just copy what I wrote about it when I awarded it with a Special Award for MotM#9. However I'm not gonna do that. I'm just gonna read it and kinda rephrase it. So if you look at the picture of this map, what do you see? Hmmm? EXACTLY! It looks like the tease of a new Terran unit for HotS (seriously, check it: + Show Spoiler +) Ok but in all seriousness now, the map just brims with creativity. Every starting location has some easy to take expansions near itself, like any standart map. Indeed, there are some gimmicks like the tiny ramps and passages, but don't those features just give it even more charm? I'm not sure how far this map would be playable but I really endorse the creators effort of making such a special and aesthetically pleasing map. Yes, if you actually peek through the kinda weird overall look you'll see the really nice texture work.

Monitor: I dislike the vertical expansion layout on this map because it forces players to expand aggressively. All of the expansions get closer and closer to the opponent, which can be very uncomfortable for Zerg compared to maps like Metalopolis with a crescent moon expo pattern. Also in bottom left vs. top, the bottom left player can't secure a fourth nearly as easily as the top lpayer.

Samro: Rumble Badger’s map looks really strange and needs kind of a walk through of all bases to understand the advantages and disadvantages for each spawn of this really asymmetric map. The 11 spawn provides four bases in close proximity, but the natural is hard to wall in die tu cardinal direction ramp and the third and fourth are on a low ground, forcing the player to be pro-active and take control of the middle area. The nearby highround has to be scouted, because it can be used for harass and tanks against fourth. The 11 spawn seems to bet he easiest to play on, because four bases can be hold comfortable. The 7 spawn is in a tougher spot as the third can be drop-harassed from the highround and the fourth is really open. Since there are quite some chokes a player at 7 would wall-in and max on two or three bases. Spawn at five ist he strangest ever with a highround fourth that is equally hard to reach for attacker and defender. In general there are quite some interesting ideas, but extreme spacing (huge openness, tiny chokes vayring in all areas) makes this map positional and racially imbalanced.
This map could be much better with better sense for good scale followed by some better balancing of thirds and fourth and more work put into the visual theme.

FlopTurnReaver: Ok. A 3v4 player map. Well I guess this map is perfect if you're in a bit of an uneven company, like in one team you have 3 good guys and in the other team you have 4 good guys but one's dead. Or similar. Like the previous reviewed map 'Stepway', this map is just based on gimmicks. A lot of highgrounds and double highgrounds that don't really have a business but are nice to look at. I mean I could look at it from the competitive aspect and write down a list with everything that's bad and imbalanced, but that would be the completely wrong process for a map like this. Instead I'm just gonna mention how fun this probably is to play at a lan party if you can somehow balance out the 3v4 team. There's a ton of expansions and rocks to direct your anger against. Yes, the bases and expansions are totally unsymmetrically located but I don't think it even really matters on such a crazy map.

Monitor: I can't say anything is imbalanced because its 3v4.... speaking of the concept, I think you should give the advantage to the 3 players since they are behind at the start. Maybe some gold minerals or an extra base?

Samro: The map is made to be imbalanced and be played by different strength/skilled players. So one really cannot predict how it would play and I could not get six other people to play against me. Analyzing the map I can only state the some scaling (mains) seems weird and that there are very few bases to expand too regarding that seven players play on this map. The extra APM from the one player could be balanced out a bit with many more bases being more esily available for the weaker team (3p).

FlopTurnReaver: Now this is a nice case of 2 different 2 player rotational symmetry maps beeing forced into one. Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm actually not a big fan of the expanding possibilities. Both players have to take 2 expansions in both directions which makes it really hard to defend everything in late game. However I really like the locations of the expansions. No base looks too vulnurable compared with the others. Well maybe the 10 o'clock base is a bit easier to attack with the high ground advantage but that's a small sacrifice for asymmetry. I'd really like to see this map in a big tournament someday, just to confuse the pros and see how they'd handle it. The one thing I'd like to critisyze is the realism. There's crops on so many bases! You can't build on crops!?
TL;DR: Map sucks, creator's probably a douche.

Monitor: This seems like it plays like a symmetrical map, with just minor changes. It looks nicely balanced. But in general, I think that you should use the asymmetrical aspect to your advantage- differentiate each spawn as much as possible! The trick is to balance out the elements, but it can be done.

Samro: I do not want to write about my own map really, except that this could be two 2spawn maps that might actually be balanced, but it looks more interesting to me as an almost balanced asymmetric map. I think the two sides are different enough and more defined/different sides would be possible to balance, but would also define the game too much, forcing each race into a playstyle. Needs lots of playtests.

FlopTurnReaver: Well that name sounds promising. Let's take a look at this piecGREAT SCOTT!! What is this??
Ok, call down. Well this is uhm.. confusing? I'm not really sure what to say about this. It kinda looks like a map from a parallel universe where Dustin Browder likes bases instead of rocks. It pretty much looks like an island map, but you can actually walk between the islands. However if you do you'll probably die. I'm not even gonna try making something out of this. My best guess is „supports airplay“ which is always a fine thing. So yeah.. I'll just leave you with that.

Monitor: This looks like a goofy map to play, but with that many bases and tight paths I'd never want to move out. I suggest if you want to make a serious version, only have about 21 expansions and open up the pathways.

Samro: The scaling overall and size of paths of the map makes it pretty much unplayable for me. It is not really interestig to discuss balance regarding layout and expansions here, because there is so much imbalance already produced with the very much non-standard terrain.

FlopTurnReaver: As on Samro's map we can see here different layouts inside one map. The creator is using 3 completely different Main/Nat concepts. The one thing that actually bothers me about this is that the starting location who actually has the easiest natural also has the easiest third. He tries to balance it out by only giving that natural 1 geyser but still, the top right base has a very hard third compared with the 2 other spawns. The one thing that's really cool is that no matter what 2 spawns you get, the expansion pattern is fairly simple and it should be possible to defend many expansions at the same time. I'm not sure if there'd ever be a fight for the high yield expansion but it also is located in a nice position. Overall I really like this map with almost all the features implemented.

Monitor: Great work varying the spawn positions, I think its really cool. I imagine it will be decently balanced, except the top right player in top right vs. bottom left can expand defensively while the other player cannot (except for the practically free third).

Samro: I do not really know, if fellow TPW.mapmaker Johanaz finished this map, but in its current state it is too unbalanced with some expansions being to easy to grap for one side.10v8 looks extremly imbalanced with out side having so easy access to a bigger number of bases including the only gold base.

goes to dezi with Aldebaran and an Honorable Mention to Glexarn with Geostationary
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goes to Namrufus with Galactic HQ
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goes to Aldebaran by Dezi; runner-up is Folly Fields by Samro
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easy pick: Stormy Plains by fenX
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to Johanaz with without title
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