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On August 10 2011 21:23 Kamikiri wrote:No, Hero Line Wars was where each team would spend the gold they get on sending creeps to the enemy, enfos is pre-set what monsters are sending and you can not send monsters to the other team.
Actually you can, with offensive spells hehe. Not that it is used all that often I guess.
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I went through a guide on making a tower defense once in the mapeditor but... since I've never been able to work text or code I almost ate my own head after an hour of getting nowhere Also if you continue with this it might be a good oppotunity for me to try and make a unique groundtexture for sc2 Allways wanted to try but never had the reason nor the knowledge on how to
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Inspired by this thread, me and a friend have begun working on Enfos for SC2. Neither of us have any prior mapmaking experience, but I study computer science, so that helps a bit. We have made some progress already.
However, we won't stay exactly true to the original. For example, we intend to have fewer different, but more unique heroes with more distinct group roles.
I won't promise anything, but we are very excited about doing this. I'll throw an update here whenever we are ready to release something
It would be very helpful if you guys could help us test it and provide ideas once we get a beta out.
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I've been waiting for this map since SC2 release. :O We can only hope for some of the good mapmakers make a new version.
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On August 11 2011 21:03 Rakmo wrote:Inspired by this thread, me and a friend have begun working on Enfos for SC2. Neither of us have any prior mapmaking experience, but I study computer science, so that helps a bit. We have made some progress already. However, we won't stay exactly true to the original. For example, we intend to have fewer different, but more unique heroes with more distinct group roles. I won't promise anything, but we are very excited about doing this. I'll throw an update here whenever we are ready to release something It would be very helpful if you guys could help us test it and provide ideas once we get a beta out.
Don't think there will be any problem finding people that will help you test it considering how many people actually want a decent version of the map. Just post when you got something to show .
On August 11 2011 21:36 DrNo wrote:
I've been waiting for this map since SC2 release. :O We can only hope for some of the good mapmakers make a new version.
Same here dude, same here... But until (if?) that happens, I guess it's up to us that doesn't know the editor to learn it and try to make something out of it.
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I'd definitely play this map if there was a good sc2 version of it. The wc3 version was a blast.
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Does anyone have ideas or other things that they would have wanted in a sc2 version? Something you maybe thought was missing in the old version?
Personally I would have liked to see it with statistics saved from every game you played, amount won/ lost or something like that. I think this exists in SOTIS among others. That would be a nice addition to the old.
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Burbenog TD, Gem TD there was this map.. which i've forgotten the name of.. something like Planet Defense that rocked
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On August 10 2011 21:25 aTak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 20:31 Mashmed wrote:This is one of the most played if not THE most played map besides DoTA on WC3. I can't see who no one has made it yet... If you decide to make it I could help you test it out I'm great at thinking of ideas/criticism but I suck at making stuff my self I just might take you up on that offer. But as I said, I have never done a map before. I do however work as a programmer, so after looking trough the editor, I think that might help a bit, atelast when it comes to triggers and conditions. But I hope that someone really good makes it though, because I don't want to make a half-bad version of what I consider being the best custom game out there =/.
If you do make one I'd be happy to help test it as well.
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I would love to help test as well.
Something I found while playing Enfo's on TFT is that games can last hour+ , I don't exactly remember the options available in the TFT version, but something similar to Desert Strike with a vote to determine game length, or creep speed/strength, would be good.
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I'm definitely anticipating such a map to be out. Loved Enfos in TFT!
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On August 12 2011 04:13 Juno1226 wrote:
I would love to help test as well.
Something I found while playing Enfo's on TFT is that games can last hour+ , I don't exactly remember the options available in the TFT version, but something similar to Desert Strike with a vote to determine game length, or creep speed/strength, would be good.
Haven't played Desert Strike I think. However it's a great idea, sucks if you have to leave the game after playing for like 40 minutes or something.
Maybe there could be a set game length time, and when that time is reached, the team with most lives left wins, alternatively, if both have the same amount of lives, you would enter sudden death mode.
For the speed/strength, I don't actually see any difference from just picking a harder difficulty at the beggining. Possibly that you can vote up the difficulty during the game to speed things up.
On another note, I worked some in the editor last night again, completing leaderboard and wave spawns (had hero selector done since last time). And after doing this, I actually think I wouldn't have such a hard time making the whole map. So I'm going to work some more in it this weekend to determine if I'm going to do a version or not. My programming background helped me alot more than I thought, and I found it quite fun, so I'm optimistic.
I think the hard part will be to make the game balanced, with multiple difficulties, skills, items and so on. This however I guess is where the testing comes in and the community and plaers who use the map has to help out.
If I decide to make one, I will create a new thread for it, and post a link to it here, so this thread can go on with it's regular purpose of telling people about Enfo versions in the making and so on. And I will hade the new thread more concentrated on balacing, ideas and so on for the version I would be making.
It motives me to work to see that people actually want this map, and hopefully this thread will make sure we atleast get one decent verison out on battle.net soon. Who knows, maybe it will result in more versions with different heroes, mobs and ideas.
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I thoroughly enjoyed playing Enfos on TFT. While I don't have a desire to embark on a solo recreation project, I am extremely intimate with SC2's data editor (to the point where I can make just about anything happen between units without triggers). I would gladly donate my time to tutoring anyone picking up the project seriously or, if you're looking to work with a team, take hero/ability concepts and implement them.
So if there's someone picking this up and wants a hand with the "programming" aspect, do not hesitate to PM me and get to talking.
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On August 12 2011 18:09 aTak wrote:
On another note, I worked some in the editor last night again, completing leaderboard and wave spawns (had hero selector done since last time). And after doing this, I actually think I wouldn't have such a hard time making the whole map. So I'm going to work some more in it this weekend to determine if I'm going to do a version or not. My programming background helped me alot more than I thought, and I found it quite fun, so I'm optimistic.
If you want to test your mettle to see if you have what it takes to see the map through, start with making the heroes in the data editor. If you can do that, the rest will be a breeze.
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On August 12 2011 18:51 urashimakt wrote:
I thoroughly enjoyed playing Enfos on TFT. While I don't have a desire to embark on a solo recreation project, I am extremely intimate with SC2's data editor (to the point where I can make just about anything happen between units without triggers). I would gladly donate my time to tutoring anyone picking up the project seriously or, if you're looking to work with a team, take hero/ability concepts and implement them.
So if there's someone picking this up and wants a hand with the "programming" aspect, do not hesitate to PM me and get to talking.
Awesome man, sounds great.
On August 12 2011 19:25 Eiviyn wrote:
If you want to test your mettle to see if you have what it takes to see the map through, start with making the heroes in the data editor. If you can do that, the rest will be a breeze.
Yeah. I have already made some because I needed them to test the hero selector, and I didn't want to use the standard ones. Not that I made/change models though, but the regular stuff, name, stats, command card/abilities and so on. I mean, we all know that Raynor need the seeker missile  .
What part of making the heroes do you consider being the thoughest one?
I guess that I might get some trouble with it, you always get when you do stuff you haven't done before, but seeing urashiamkts post tells me there is help to get. I also have a friend that wanted to help out (even though he doesn't have that much experience), and there is always the forums on sc2mapster, so I think it just might work out fine.
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On August 12 2011 19:57 aTak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:51 urashimakt wrote:
I thoroughly enjoyed playing Enfos on TFT. While I don't have a desire to embark on a solo recreation project, I am extremely intimate with SC2's data editor (to the point where I can make just about anything happen between units without triggers). I would gladly donate my time to tutoring anyone picking up the project seriously or, if you're looking to work with a team, take hero/ability concepts and implement them.
So if there's someone picking this up and wants a hand with the "programming" aspect, do not hesitate to PM me and get to talking. Awesome man, sounds great. Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:25 Eiviyn wrote:
If you want to test your mettle to see if you have what it takes to see the map through, start with making the heroes in the data editor. If you can do that, the rest will be a breeze. Yeah. I have already made some because I needed them to test the hero selector, and I didn't want to use the standard ones. Not that I made/change models though, but the regular stuff, name, stats, command card/abilities and so on. I mean, we all know that Raynor need the seeker missile . What part of making the heroes do you consider being the thoughest one? I guess that I might get some trouble with it, you always get when you do stuff you haven't done before, but seeing urashiamkts post tells me there is help to get. I also have a friend that wanted to help out (even though he doesn't have that much experience), and there is always the forums on sc2mapster, so I think it just might work out fine.
Swapping and breaking down bits of premade data (like the hunter seeker) is a great way to familiarize yourself with the basics of the data editor. I think what he's touching on is creating something from scratch. Where would you start if someone tasked you with recreating the hunter seeker missile with nothing but your own work? Even things that seem simple enough, like the void ray laser, can get pretty tough if you're thinking of leaping in head first like John Rambo.
Enfos is going to require trigger work to control the game interface and flow, but I imagine with your programming background that the trigger editor comes naturally to you. The data editor is notorious for being an unforgiving time sink of a fiend, even to those who are experienced, and devours the souls of unsuspecting WC3 mapmakers. A lot of sc2mapster netizens are still so suspicious of it that many only work in triggers to avoid its grasp.
But besides that, it's powerful, not insurmountable, and to those who brave its depths it can be really, really fun to use. It's also really cool for working in teams because data edits are pretty portable compared to custom triggers.
If it's less than obvious, I was having a bit of fun writing this. The data editor is simply tough but rewarding and controls aspects of maps like units, effects, buffs, requirements, upgrades, abilities, the visuals you actually see while playing (like, all of them from terrain, units, and sfx) among other things. It is by far the more overwhelming of the mapmaking tools.
It's dangerous to go alone. I think the best shot Enfos has of being rebuilt in a suitable manner within the reasonably near future is for a group of serious, amiable individuals shouldering portios of the burden.
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On August 12 2011 20:29 urashimakt wrote:Swapping and breaking down bits of premade data (like the hunter seeker) is a great way to familiarize yourself with the basics of the data editor. I think what he's touching on is creating something from scratch. Where would you start if someone tasked you with recreating the hunter seeker missile with nothing but your own work? Even things that seem simple enough, like the void ray laser, can get pretty tough if you're thinking of leaping in head first like John Rambo.
Enfos is going to require trigger work to control the game interface and flow, but I imagine with your programming background that the trigger editor comes naturally to you. The data editor is notorious for being an unforgiving time sink of a fiend, even to those who are experienced, and devours the souls of unsuspecting WC3 mapmakers. A lot of sc2mapster netizens are still so suspicious of it that many only work in triggers to avoid its grasp.
But besides that, it's powerful, not insurmountable, and to those who brave its depths it can be really, really fun to use. It's also really cool for working in teams because data edits are pretty portable compared to custom triggers.
If it's less than obvious, I was having a bit of fun writing this. The data editor is simply tough but rewarding and controls aspects of maps like units, effects, buffs, requirements, upgrades, abilities, the visuals you actually see while playing (like, all of them from terrain, units, and sfx) among other things. It is by far the more overwhelming of the mapmaking tools.
It's dangerous to go alone. I think the best shot Enfos has of being rebuilt in a suitable manner within the reasonably near future is for a group of serious, amiable individuals shouldering portios of the burden.
Well what can I say, consider yourself reqruited as chief of data editing hehe. I would image it would take me some serious time to get to learn the data editor that well, especially considering I have my regular work aswell. And the optimal situation would be to team up with someone like you that already knows it.
And yeah, the trigger editor felt really logic to me. It was actually quite like my regular job except I didn't have to write all the functions I needed myself since they were already in the "class libraries" or what blizzard calls it in the galaxy editor. And that speed it up quite a bit, since I could just focus on the triggers, conditions and actual mapflow.
I guess that theoretically I could just create the map with regular heroes/enemy units, fixing all the triggers, leaderboards, selectors, spawns/respawns and so on, and then replace the heroes/enemies with units created by a more experienced data editor, adding that persons project as a dependency getting the units from there? I might be wrong here, considering I've only worked in the editor about three times now though..
Let's say one person fixes the triggers, another the work in the data editor. What would be left to do? A nice terrain/battle ground, sexy loading screen?
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On August 12 2011 21:09 aTak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:29 urashimakt wrote:Swapping and breaking down bits of premade data (like the hunter seeker) is a great way to familiarize yourself with the basics of the data editor. I think what he's touching on is creating something from scratch. Where would you start if someone tasked you with recreating the hunter seeker missile with nothing but your own work? Even things that seem simple enough, like the void ray laser, can get pretty tough if you're thinking of leaping in head first like John Rambo.
Enfos is going to require trigger work to control the game interface and flow, but I imagine with your programming background that the trigger editor comes naturally to you. The data editor is notorious for being an unforgiving time sink of a fiend, even to those who are experienced, and devours the souls of unsuspecting WC3 mapmakers. A lot of sc2mapster netizens are still so suspicious of it that many only work in triggers to avoid its grasp.
But besides that, it's powerful, not insurmountable, and to those who brave its depths it can be really, really fun to use. It's also really cool for working in teams because data edits are pretty portable compared to custom triggers.
If it's less than obvious, I was having a bit of fun writing this. The data editor is simply tough but rewarding and controls aspects of maps like units, effects, buffs, requirements, upgrades, abilities, the visuals you actually see while playing (like, all of them from terrain, units, and sfx) among other things. It is by far the more overwhelming of the mapmaking tools.
It's dangerous to go alone. I think the best shot Enfos has of being rebuilt in a suitable manner within the reasonably near future is for a group of serious, amiable individuals shouldering portios of the burden. Well what can I say, consider yourself reqruited as chief of data editing hehe. I would image it would take me some serious time to get to learn the data editor that well, especially considering I have my regular work aswell. And the optimal situation would be to team up with someone like you that already knows it. And yeah, the trigger editor felt really logic to me. It was actually quite like my regular job except I didn't have to write all the functions I needed myself since they were already in the "class libraries" or what blizzard calls it in the galaxy editor. And that speed it up quite a bit, since I could just focus on the triggers, conditions and actual mapflow. I guess that theoretically I could just create the map with regular heroes/enemy units, fixing all the triggers, leaderboards, selectors, spawns/respawns and so on, and then replace the heroes/enemies with units created by a more experienced data editor, adding that persons project as a dependency getting the units from there? I might be wrong here, considering I've only worked in the editor about three times now though.. Let's say one person fixes the triggers, another the work in the data editor. What would be left to do? A nice terrain/battle ground, sexy loading screen?
Well, the more data editors you have the faster the menial stuff goes, but managing more people is harder than fewer. Artistic talent is invaluable, ranging from simple terraining to artwork to even modeling. It's not fundamentally important, but people love things that look pretty. I think with one person working on concepts/planning/triggering the map, one or two data editors max hammering the concepts into reality, and ideally an artist you'd have a solid team.
Most important is the planning, communication, and team spirit though. This is an endeavor that we'd be working on together for a while and being able to contact and share content is key. You should be able to create the basic undecorated map layout and trigger to your heart's content. Data can be included as a dependency.
So take your time, talk to your friend, don't rush to start producing content before you plan. Find a convenient way you'd like to communicate on the project (maybe a combo of messenger and email due to time zones) and shoot me a PM. I'm willing to work in whatever manner is comfortable for you. We can start by hammering out the game systems before we jump into individual heroes and stuff. Think hero stats, levels, inventories, shops, UI, wave mechanics, etc!
I look forward to getting a PM from ya and hearing your thoughts in some detail.
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Terrain, Balance, Screen and whatnot. Plenty to do wit ha big project like remaking the almighty enfos!
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Was/Still is my favorite map. I used to solo against 5 people, any difficulty :D Weaponsmith/mentalist OP
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EPT
