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So I have been looking trough the custom game threads for quite some time, looking for new good ones and seeing what old customs from frozen / bw that people want to have as a Starcraft 2 map.
It seems to me that the one that most people want is Enfos from frozen throne. I have myself been looking for this map since the release of Starcraft 2, but have only found two, and theese were utter crap, bugged, and broken overall.
I was actually thinking about making one myself because I don't want to wait longer. Problem being that I have never made a map before, so then I need to learn the map editor, and do it in that little spare time I have when I am not working.
I also read on the MT forums (the forums for the best Enfos map that existed for frozen throne), and the creator of that said they had no intentions of doing a Starcraft 2 version.
So my question is, does anyone know if there is a decent Enfos out there, or maybe if there is one on the way?
If not, all we Enfos fans should just post and beg until someone that is good at the map editor makes it  .
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aTak, maybe explain what enfos exactly is, maybe there are some versions you dont know about.
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![[image loading]](http://eng.warcmaps.com/m-1_297049936-10818.mapspic)
2 teams. Each player gets one hero that they may upgrade in a DotA fashion. In addition to a hero, you get a "spellcaster" building that can cast beneficial spells for your team or harmful spells on the enemy team.
Mobs spawn at the top in levels. Each level has harder mob spawns. Mobs run to your base (the 5 yellow houses). If they get there, you lose a life. First team to lose all their lives loses.
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On August 08 2011 20:30 ihasaKAROT wrote:
aTak, maybe explain what enfos exactly is, maybe there are some versions you dont know about.
Ah yeah, sorry about that. Nice description by Eiviyn, that's what it is. There is still bots hosting it (MT edition) on both Europe and NA frozen servers, so if you haven't tried it I suggest you do it, great map.
Far better/more fun to play than Dota in my opinion. Actually think I played it more than the regular game hehe. Takes some time to get into though, and can be hard to play with people that haven't played before, because team work is essential to really enjoy it completely.
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Never heard of this before but I checked sc2mapster very quick and there are apparently a few ppl looking to do something like it. Although one of those ppl confused it with a similar UMS and it seems like the rest can't do it alone^^
Well you should definitly learn the editor and start working on it 
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Yeah, ill give it some time to see if there is not already someone that knows what they are doing that have started working on it. However, I opened up the editor yesterday evening and checked some video tutorials, made some heroes. Just in case 
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Enfos was so much fun back on wc3, it would be pretty sweet if we could get one for sc2. Hopefully someone with mapmaking skills gets on it!
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YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES.
I just hope it won't be a 1-for-1 remake like the SC2 Legion TD is.
SC2 has already been out for a year though, so any versions of Enfo's would be quite late to the show.
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The most important part for me is that it is fairly balanced. Have played way to many unbalanced Enfo's with imba heroes. The balancing was what made the MT teams version so great.
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OH my god I had completely forgotten about this UMS, it was the greatest UMS in TFT!
I don't know the mapmaker so don't know how I can help though...
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i'd loved to have 'defend the lich king' back
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Enfo's was by far my favorite WC3 map. It's a shame the Enfo's guys aren't planning to switch to SC2.
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I liked it; was a fun map. however I personally would prefer to see a new Battleships Pro more!
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If someone told me there wouldn't be an Enfo's or even Vampirism a year after SC2's release, I wouldn't have believed them.
I know it's a lot of work, but someone has to do it. This is important.
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On August 09 2011 23:13 danl9rm wrote:
I know it's a lot of work, but someone has to do it. This is important.
True that!
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On August 09 2011 00:39 FlopTurnReaver wrote:
Never heard of this before but I checked sc2mapster very quick and there are apparently a few ppl looking to do something like it. Although one of those ppl confused it with a similar UMS and it seems like the rest can't do it alone^^
I'm a regular at mapster and I don't think anyone is working on an Enfos style map right now. I think you're safe to start one.
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This is one of the most played if not THE most played map besides DoTA on WC3. I can't see who no one has made it yet... If you decide to make it I could help you test it out I'm great at thinking of ideas/criticism but I suck at making stuff my self
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On August 09 2011 22:40 lindn wrote:
... hero line wars?
No, Hero Line Wars was where each team would spend the gold they get on sending creeps to the enemy, enfos is pre-set what monsters are sending and you can not send monsters to the other team.
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On August 10 2011 20:31 Mashmed wrote:This is one of the most played if not THE most played map besides DoTA on WC3. I can't see who no one has made it yet... If you decide to make it I could help you test it out I'm great at thinking of ideas/criticism but I suck at making stuff my self
I just might take you up on that offer. But as I said, I have never done a map before. I do however work as a programmer, so after looking trough the editor, I think that might help a bit, atelast when it comes to triggers and conditions.
But I hope that someone really good makes it though, because I don't want to make a half-bad version of what I consider being the best custom game out there =/.
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On August 10 2011 21:23 Kamikiri wrote:No, Hero Line Wars was where each team would spend the gold they get on sending creeps to the enemy, enfos is pre-set what monsters are sending and you can not send monsters to the other team.
Actually you can, with offensive spells hehe. Not that it is used all that often I guess.
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I went through a guide on making a tower defense once in the mapeditor but... since I've never been able to work text or code I almost ate my own head after an hour of getting nowhere Also if you continue with this it might be a good oppotunity for me to try and make a unique groundtexture for sc2 Allways wanted to try but never had the reason nor the knowledge on how to
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Inspired by this thread, me and a friend have begun working on Enfos for SC2. Neither of us have any prior mapmaking experience, but I study computer science, so that helps a bit. We have made some progress already.
However, we won't stay exactly true to the original. For example, we intend to have fewer different, but more unique heroes with more distinct group roles.
I won't promise anything, but we are very excited about doing this. I'll throw an update here whenever we are ready to release something
It would be very helpful if you guys could help us test it and provide ideas once we get a beta out.
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I've been waiting for this map since SC2 release. :O We can only hope for some of the good mapmakers make a new version.
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On August 11 2011 21:03 Rakmo wrote:Inspired by this thread, me and a friend have begun working on Enfos for SC2. Neither of us have any prior mapmaking experience, but I study computer science, so that helps a bit. We have made some progress already. However, we won't stay exactly true to the original. For example, we intend to have fewer different, but more unique heroes with more distinct group roles. I won't promise anything, but we are very excited about doing this. I'll throw an update here whenever we are ready to release something It would be very helpful if you guys could help us test it and provide ideas once we get a beta out.
Don't think there will be any problem finding people that will help you test it considering how many people actually want a decent version of the map. Just post when you got something to show .
On August 11 2011 21:36 DrNo wrote:
I've been waiting for this map since SC2 release. :O We can only hope for some of the good mapmakers make a new version.
Same here dude, same here... But until (if?) that happens, I guess it's up to us that doesn't know the editor to learn it and try to make something out of it.
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I'd definitely play this map if there was a good sc2 version of it. The wc3 version was a blast.
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Does anyone have ideas or other things that they would have wanted in a sc2 version? Something you maybe thought was missing in the old version?
Personally I would have liked to see it with statistics saved from every game you played, amount won/ lost or something like that. I think this exists in SOTIS among others. That would be a nice addition to the old.
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Burbenog TD, Gem TD there was this map.. which i've forgotten the name of.. something like Planet Defense that rocked
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On August 10 2011 21:25 aTak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 20:31 Mashmed wrote:This is one of the most played if not THE most played map besides DoTA on WC3. I can't see who no one has made it yet... If you decide to make it I could help you test it out I'm great at thinking of ideas/criticism but I suck at making stuff my self I just might take you up on that offer. But as I said, I have never done a map before. I do however work as a programmer, so after looking trough the editor, I think that might help a bit, atelast when it comes to triggers and conditions. But I hope that someone really good makes it though, because I don't want to make a half-bad version of what I consider being the best custom game out there =/.
If you do make one I'd be happy to help test it as well.
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I would love to help test as well.
Something I found while playing Enfo's on TFT is that games can last hour+ , I don't exactly remember the options available in the TFT version, but something similar to Desert Strike with a vote to determine game length, or creep speed/strength, would be good.
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I'm definitely anticipating such a map to be out. Loved Enfos in TFT!
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On August 12 2011 04:13 Juno1226 wrote:
I would love to help test as well.
Something I found while playing Enfo's on TFT is that games can last hour+ , I don't exactly remember the options available in the TFT version, but something similar to Desert Strike with a vote to determine game length, or creep speed/strength, would be good.
Haven't played Desert Strike I think. However it's a great idea, sucks if you have to leave the game after playing for like 40 minutes or something.
Maybe there could be a set game length time, and when that time is reached, the team with most lives left wins, alternatively, if both have the same amount of lives, you would enter sudden death mode.
For the speed/strength, I don't actually see any difference from just picking a harder difficulty at the beggining. Possibly that you can vote up the difficulty during the game to speed things up.
On another note, I worked some in the editor last night again, completing leaderboard and wave spawns (had hero selector done since last time). And after doing this, I actually think I wouldn't have such a hard time making the whole map. So I'm going to work some more in it this weekend to determine if I'm going to do a version or not. My programming background helped me alot more than I thought, and I found it quite fun, so I'm optimistic.
I think the hard part will be to make the game balanced, with multiple difficulties, skills, items and so on. This however I guess is where the testing comes in and the community and plaers who use the map has to help out.
If I decide to make one, I will create a new thread for it, and post a link to it here, so this thread can go on with it's regular purpose of telling people about Enfo versions in the making and so on. And I will hade the new thread more concentrated on balacing, ideas and so on for the version I would be making.
It motives me to work to see that people actually want this map, and hopefully this thread will make sure we atleast get one decent verison out on battle.net soon. Who knows, maybe it will result in more versions with different heroes, mobs and ideas.
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I thoroughly enjoyed playing Enfos on TFT. While I don't have a desire to embark on a solo recreation project, I am extremely intimate with SC2's data editor (to the point where I can make just about anything happen between units without triggers). I would gladly donate my time to tutoring anyone picking up the project seriously or, if you're looking to work with a team, take hero/ability concepts and implement them.
So if there's someone picking this up and wants a hand with the "programming" aspect, do not hesitate to PM me and get to talking.
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On August 12 2011 18:09 aTak wrote:
On another note, I worked some in the editor last night again, completing leaderboard and wave spawns (had hero selector done since last time). And after doing this, I actually think I wouldn't have such a hard time making the whole map. So I'm going to work some more in it this weekend to determine if I'm going to do a version or not. My programming background helped me alot more than I thought, and I found it quite fun, so I'm optimistic.
If you want to test your mettle to see if you have what it takes to see the map through, start with making the heroes in the data editor. If you can do that, the rest will be a breeze.
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On August 12 2011 18:51 urashimakt wrote:
I thoroughly enjoyed playing Enfos on TFT. While I don't have a desire to embark on a solo recreation project, I am extremely intimate with SC2's data editor (to the point where I can make just about anything happen between units without triggers). I would gladly donate my time to tutoring anyone picking up the project seriously or, if you're looking to work with a team, take hero/ability concepts and implement them.
So if there's someone picking this up and wants a hand with the "programming" aspect, do not hesitate to PM me and get to talking.
Awesome man, sounds great.
On August 12 2011 19:25 Eiviyn wrote:
If you want to test your mettle to see if you have what it takes to see the map through, start with making the heroes in the data editor. If you can do that, the rest will be a breeze.
Yeah. I have already made some because I needed them to test the hero selector, and I didn't want to use the standard ones. Not that I made/change models though, but the regular stuff, name, stats, command card/abilities and so on. I mean, we all know that Raynor need the seeker missile .
What part of making the heroes do you consider being the thoughest one?
I guess that I might get some trouble with it, you always get when you do stuff you haven't done before, but seeing urashiamkts post tells me there is help to get. I also have a friend that wanted to help out (even though he doesn't have that much experience), and there is always the forums on sc2mapster, so I think it just might work out fine.
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On August 12 2011 19:57 aTak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:51 urashimakt wrote:
I thoroughly enjoyed playing Enfos on TFT. While I don't have a desire to embark on a solo recreation project, I am extremely intimate with SC2's data editor (to the point where I can make just about anything happen between units without triggers). I would gladly donate my time to tutoring anyone picking up the project seriously or, if you're looking to work with a team, take hero/ability concepts and implement them.
So if there's someone picking this up and wants a hand with the "programming" aspect, do not hesitate to PM me and get to talking. Awesome man, sounds great. Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:25 Eiviyn wrote:
If you want to test your mettle to see if you have what it takes to see the map through, start with making the heroes in the data editor. If you can do that, the rest will be a breeze. Yeah. I have already made some because I needed them to test the hero selector, and I didn't want to use the standard ones. Not that I made/change models though, but the regular stuff, name, stats, command card/abilities and so on. I mean, we all know that Raynor need the seeker missile . What part of making the heroes do you consider being the thoughest one? I guess that I might get some trouble with it, you always get when you do stuff you haven't done before, but seeing urashiamkts post tells me there is help to get. I also have a friend that wanted to help out (even though he doesn't have that much experience), and there is always the forums on sc2mapster, so I think it just might work out fine.
Swapping and breaking down bits of premade data (like the hunter seeker) is a great way to familiarize yourself with the basics of the data editor. I think what he's touching on is creating something from scratch. Where would you start if someone tasked you with recreating the hunter seeker missile with nothing but your own work? Even things that seem simple enough, like the void ray laser, can get pretty tough if you're thinking of leaping in head first like John Rambo.
Enfos is going to require trigger work to control the game interface and flow, but I imagine with your programming background that the trigger editor comes naturally to you. The data editor is notorious for being an unforgiving time sink of a fiend, even to those who are experienced, and devours the souls of unsuspecting WC3 mapmakers. A lot of sc2mapster netizens are still so suspicious of it that many only work in triggers to avoid its grasp.
But besides that, it's powerful, not insurmountable, and to those who brave its depths it can be really, really fun to use. It's also really cool for working in teams because data edits are pretty portable compared to custom triggers.
If it's less than obvious, I was having a bit of fun writing this. The data editor is simply tough but rewarding and controls aspects of maps like units, effects, buffs, requirements, upgrades, abilities, the visuals you actually see while playing (like, all of them from terrain, units, and sfx) among other things. It is by far the more overwhelming of the mapmaking tools.
It's dangerous to go alone. I think the best shot Enfos has of being rebuilt in a suitable manner within the reasonably near future is for a group of serious, amiable individuals shouldering portios of the burden.
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On August 12 2011 20:29 urashimakt wrote:Swapping and breaking down bits of premade data (like the hunter seeker) is a great way to familiarize yourself with the basics of the data editor. I think what he's touching on is creating something from scratch. Where would you start if someone tasked you with recreating the hunter seeker missile with nothing but your own work? Even things that seem simple enough, like the void ray laser, can get pretty tough if you're thinking of leaping in head first like John Rambo.
Enfos is going to require trigger work to control the game interface and flow, but I imagine with your programming background that the trigger editor comes naturally to you. The data editor is notorious for being an unforgiving time sink of a fiend, even to those who are experienced, and devours the souls of unsuspecting WC3 mapmakers. A lot of sc2mapster netizens are still so suspicious of it that many only work in triggers to avoid its grasp.
But besides that, it's powerful, not insurmountable, and to those who brave its depths it can be really, really fun to use. It's also really cool for working in teams because data edits are pretty portable compared to custom triggers.
If it's less than obvious, I was having a bit of fun writing this. The data editor is simply tough but rewarding and controls aspects of maps like units, effects, buffs, requirements, upgrades, abilities, the visuals you actually see while playing (like, all of them from terrain, units, and sfx) among other things. It is by far the more overwhelming of the mapmaking tools.
It's dangerous to go alone. I think the best shot Enfos has of being rebuilt in a suitable manner within the reasonably near future is for a group of serious, amiable individuals shouldering portios of the burden.
Well what can I say, consider yourself reqruited as chief of data editing hehe. I would image it would take me some serious time to get to learn the data editor that well, especially considering I have my regular work aswell. And the optimal situation would be to team up with someone like you that already knows it.
And yeah, the trigger editor felt really logic to me. It was actually quite like my regular job except I didn't have to write all the functions I needed myself since they were already in the "class libraries" or what blizzard calls it in the galaxy editor. And that speed it up quite a bit, since I could just focus on the triggers, conditions and actual mapflow.
I guess that theoretically I could just create the map with regular heroes/enemy units, fixing all the triggers, leaderboards, selectors, spawns/respawns and so on, and then replace the heroes/enemies with units created by a more experienced data editor, adding that persons project as a dependency getting the units from there? I might be wrong here, considering I've only worked in the editor about three times now though..
Let's say one person fixes the triggers, another the work in the data editor. What would be left to do? A nice terrain/battle ground, sexy loading screen?
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On August 12 2011 21:09 aTak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:29 urashimakt wrote:Swapping and breaking down bits of premade data (like the hunter seeker) is a great way to familiarize yourself with the basics of the data editor. I think what he's touching on is creating something from scratch. Where would you start if someone tasked you with recreating the hunter seeker missile with nothing but your own work? Even things that seem simple enough, like the void ray laser, can get pretty tough if you're thinking of leaping in head first like John Rambo.
Enfos is going to require trigger work to control the game interface and flow, but I imagine with your programming background that the trigger editor comes naturally to you. The data editor is notorious for being an unforgiving time sink of a fiend, even to those who are experienced, and devours the souls of unsuspecting WC3 mapmakers. A lot of sc2mapster netizens are still so suspicious of it that many only work in triggers to avoid its grasp.
But besides that, it's powerful, not insurmountable, and to those who brave its depths it can be really, really fun to use. It's also really cool for working in teams because data edits are pretty portable compared to custom triggers.
If it's less than obvious, I was having a bit of fun writing this. The data editor is simply tough but rewarding and controls aspects of maps like units, effects, buffs, requirements, upgrades, abilities, the visuals you actually see while playing (like, all of them from terrain, units, and sfx) among other things. It is by far the more overwhelming of the mapmaking tools.
It's dangerous to go alone. I think the best shot Enfos has of being rebuilt in a suitable manner within the reasonably near future is for a group of serious, amiable individuals shouldering portios of the burden. Well what can I say, consider yourself reqruited as chief of data editing hehe. I would image it would take me some serious time to get to learn the data editor that well, especially considering I have my regular work aswell. And the optimal situation would be to team up with someone like you that already knows it. And yeah, the trigger editor felt really logic to me. It was actually quite like my regular job except I didn't have to write all the functions I needed myself since they were already in the "class libraries" or what blizzard calls it in the galaxy editor. And that speed it up quite a bit, since I could just focus on the triggers, conditions and actual mapflow. I guess that theoretically I could just create the map with regular heroes/enemy units, fixing all the triggers, leaderboards, selectors, spawns/respawns and so on, and then replace the heroes/enemies with units created by a more experienced data editor, adding that persons project as a dependency getting the units from there? I might be wrong here, considering I've only worked in the editor about three times now though.. Let's say one person fixes the triggers, another the work in the data editor. What would be left to do? A nice terrain/battle ground, sexy loading screen?
Well, the more data editors you have the faster the menial stuff goes, but managing more people is harder than fewer. Artistic talent is invaluable, ranging from simple terraining to artwork to even modeling. It's not fundamentally important, but people love things that look pretty. I think with one person working on concepts/planning/triggering the map, one or two data editors max hammering the concepts into reality, and ideally an artist you'd have a solid team.
Most important is the planning, communication, and team spirit though. This is an endeavor that we'd be working on together for a while and being able to contact and share content is key. You should be able to create the basic undecorated map layout and trigger to your heart's content. Data can be included as a dependency.
So take your time, talk to your friend, don't rush to start producing content before you plan. Find a convenient way you'd like to communicate on the project (maybe a combo of messenger and email due to time zones) and shoot me a PM. I'm willing to work in whatever manner is comfortable for you. We can start by hammering out the game systems before we jump into individual heroes and stuff. Think hero stats, levels, inventories, shops, UI, wave mechanics, etc!
I look forward to getting a PM from ya and hearing your thoughts in some detail.
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Terrain, Balance, Screen and whatnot. Plenty to do wit ha big project like remaking the almighty enfos!
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Was/Still is my favorite map. I used to solo against 5 people, any difficulty :D Weaponsmith/mentalist OP
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I played that and wintermaul wars most of the time. I would love to see a SC2 version.
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Enfoooooooooooos!
Also we need a decent starship troopers imo -_-
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Me and my friend have been doing some work. I didn't realize you were starting a project as well, since when I posted, the thread seemed to be dying, and it seemed you had made up your mind not to do it. Anyway, here is our basic layout. We've got a decent bit of mapmaking done, and a majority of the triggerwork is done. We are currently in the process of developing heroes, items and adding more waves. It is currently playable, but so unbalanced that there is no real challenge, so we are not uploading anything yet.
EDIT: it might just be me, but the image of the map I've uploaded doesn't seem to show. Here's the link to it:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/enfomapv0114.jpg/
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On August 13 2011 03:03 Rakmo wrote:Me and my friend have been doing some work. I didn't realize you were starting a project as well, since when I posted, the thread seemed to be dying, and it seemed you had made up your mind not to do it. Anyway, here is our basic layout. We've got a decent bit of mapmaking done, and a majority of the triggerwork is done. We are currently in the process of developing heroes, items and adding more waves. It is currently playable, but so unbalanced that there is no real challenge, so we are not uploading anything yet. EDIT: it might just be me, but the image of the map I've uploaded doesn't seem to show. Here's the link to it: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/enfomapv0114.jpg/
Where's the other team's side?
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Man, I fired up WC3 today, and the whole place is all but abandoned. I couldn't even get an Enfo's game to fill up. T.T
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On August 13 2011 03:03 Rakmo wrote:Me and my friend have been doing some work. I didn't realize you were starting a project as well, since when I posted, the thread seemed to be dying, and it seemed you had made up your mind not to do it. Anyway, here is our basic layout. We've got a decent bit of mapmaking done, and a majority of the triggerwork is done. We are currently in the process of developing heroes, items and adding more waves. It is currently playable, but so unbalanced that there is no real challenge, so we are not uploading anything yet. EDIT: it might just be me, but the image of the map I've uploaded doesn't seem to show. Here's the link to it: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/enfomapv0114.jpg/
That is a pretty classy remodel of the original terrain. The Northern portion is a bit foggy, but are the spawns clearly separated from the start and do they end up converging at the first bottleneck pretty much like the old Enfo's 2 spawn layout?
Looks nice man I would be down to test or offer input Am on NA if you like further information just PM me!
Gosh I love enfos <3
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man.. I just don't think I'd enjoy Enfos on SC2, unless they make the heroes a lot more unique then the creeps, and make them handle the same as war3
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enfos was fun as hell. Skibi's castle was better tho, even if it wasn't HD
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On August 17 2011 17:04 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
enfos was fun as hell. Skibi's castle was better tho, even if it wasn't HD
"Alton Towers is my favourite theme park, but I prefer a Ferrari."
Not sure you can really compare the two!
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On August 17 2011 10:08 KevinIX wrote:
Man, I fired up WC3 today, and the whole place is all but abandoned. I couldn't even get an Enfo's game to fill up. T.T
Tried to play some Enfo last weekend, took about 20 minutes to get a full game running. Kinda sad.. But motivates me to fix a version for WoL atleast.
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Would be good, if I wasn't busy with the last year in my games tech course I'd help you out with JASS, presuming they still use JASS, or whatever the replacement is. Either way, good luck. If you're stuck on something, don't hesitate to PM me :D.
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On August 17 2011 12:11 Puph wrote:That is a pretty classy remodel of the original terrain. The Northern portion is a bit foggy, but are the spawns clearly separated from the start and do they end up converging at the first bottleneck pretty much like the old Enfo's 2 spawn layout? Looks nice man I would be down to test or offer input Am on NA if you like further information just PM me! Gosh I love enfos <3
The spawn is currently not split at the start, but split when they reach the crossroad. We considered doing the split like in the original, but we really didn't see what purpose it served. But if you have any good reasons to add the split, we could easily do so. I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
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On August 19 2011 18:18 aTak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 10:08 KevinIX wrote:
Man, I fired up WC3 today, and the whole place is all but abandoned. I couldn't even get an Enfo's game to fill up. T.T Tried to play some Enfo last weekend, took about 20 minutes to get a full game running. Kinda sad.. But motivates me to fix a version for WoL atleast.
Hmm it pretty easy to get enfo games on Northrend if you just use the Clan Enfo bot. I'm actually surprised how active the community is on Northrend and I would say overall the skill level is higher than when Enfos was popular on all realms.
Was very active with Enfos since 1.7, everyone played casually and didn't understand the game even though it was massively imbalanced back then and still has balance problems now. Also started the mtguide that nobody reads, surprised I'm hearing about Enfos on TL. If the guy making the map needs advice I'll help although can't play on EU being in the US and all. Heard there are Enfo maps being started on EU, but can't verify that. Just seen the horrible version on NA that has SC units as heroes that can't heal so you have to die and nobody joins so is 1v0.
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man i loved that game for war3, id play the hell outa it if it was for sc2
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This would be really awesome and I'm really excited to hear someone will be working on this ^_^
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On August 20 2011 01:35 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 18:18 aTak wrote:On August 17 2011 10:08 KevinIX wrote:
Man, I fired up WC3 today, and the whole place is all but abandoned. I couldn't even get an Enfo's game to fill up. T.T Tried to play some Enfo last weekend, took about 20 minutes to get a full game running. Kinda sad.. But motivates me to fix a version for WoL atleast. Hmm it pretty easy to get enfo games on Northrend if you just use the Clan Enfo bot. I'm actually surprised how active the community is on Northrend and I would say overall the skill level is higher than when Enfos was popular on all realms. Was very active with Enfos since 1.7, everyone played casually and didn't understand the game even though it was massively imbalanced back then and still has balance problems now. Also started the mtguide that nobody reads, surprised I'm hearing about Enfos on TL. If the guy making the map needs advice I'll help although can't play on EU being in the US and all. Heard there are Enfo maps being started on EU, but can't verify that. Just seen the horrible version on NA that has SC units as heroes that can't heal so you have to die and nobody joins so is 1v0.
Yeah, I agree about the skill level, and even though it takes more time to get the game going, it usually gets more fun because the players know what they are doing.
There are some Enfo's published on EU, but they are still as on NA total and utter crap. However atleast two more Enfo project are on the way, so hopefully we will see some atleast playable version in the coming months. It will probably be a long time (if ever) until any version will reach MT standard/balacing, but I think that is understandable, these things take time. It's just unfortunate the game has been out so long and there still hasn't been a fairly good version released.
I do however want SC units as heroes, but of course they need to be able to heal with skills/medkits (potions if you so will).I think we all want to be able kick some ass with the queen of blades .
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On August 19 2011 19:31 Rakmo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 12:11 Puph wrote:That is a pretty classy remodel of the original terrain. The Northern portion is a bit foggy, but are the spawns clearly separated from the start and do they end up converging at the first bottleneck pretty much like the old Enfo's 2 spawn layout? Looks nice man I would be down to test or offer input Am on NA if you like further information just PM me! Gosh I love enfos <3 The spawn is currently not split at the start, but split when they reach the crossroad. We considered doing the split like in the original, but we really didn't see what purpose it served. But if you have any good reasons to add the split, we could easily do so. I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
I wouldn't change the layout from the original like that personally. I think a lot of people hate change like that. Additionally, I felt the split spawns helped prevent spawn camping. Camping had to happen at a location other than the spawns, which made it more dangerous if you screwed up (since the adds would be that much closer).
I just don't see any real downside to including it.
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On August 22 2011 21:03 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 19:31 Rakmo wrote:On August 17 2011 12:11 Puph wrote:That is a pretty classy remodel of the original terrain. The Northern portion is a bit foggy, but are the spawns clearly separated from the start and do they end up converging at the first bottleneck pretty much like the old Enfo's 2 spawn layout? Looks nice man I would be down to test or offer input Am on NA if you like further information just PM me! Gosh I love enfos <3 The spawn is currently not split at the start, but split when they reach the crossroad. We considered doing the split like in the original, but we really didn't see what purpose it served. But if you have any good reasons to add the split, we could easily do so. I would love to hear your thoughts on it. I wouldn't change the layout from the original like that personally. I think a lot of people hate change like that. Additionally, I felt the split spawns helped prevent spawn camping. Camping had to happen at a location other than the spawns, which made it more dangerous if you screwed up (since the adds would be that much closer). I just don't see any real downside to including it.
I agree on the split-spawn point. It needs to be split, because it forces you to split your forces if you want to advance up the map that far, adding an extra element of danger. In the original Enfo's, there was a high-level item shop in between the two spawns up top that you could blink to, if you could force the enemy units back that far.
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Well the split spawning points added some ways to kite the creeps then hit them with an ability like Tempest's Push, Warrior Mage's Lance, Rev's Spiritual Wave, Entro's Fist etc. However those are only things used in the very early waves and aren't really needed. The most prominent point about the split lanes is it means your more vulnerable because you're farther from allies/shop and stuns hit you faster since you're right next to the enemy spell bringers. Since the game is played on Hard in most games I generally don't like to do the kiting thing with heroes due to the risk of a stun since Hard+ means creeps can actually kill you early on if you were going to use a potion soon, but didn't yet.
The rest of the terrain I have more of a problem with. The middle side cliffs are gone that had the shops, I liked the mechanic of having shops that combine items and provide better items being further from the hero spawn point and goal making it risky to get that mirror blade when creeps are pushing toward your goal. Also having the goal in front of a lot of space means ranged heroes can hide behind the goal, which they can do even now, but they would only be a few feet away instead of 20 feet. Leaking a few creeps is better than having a hero die in most cases, now it seems like any hero can get away too easily.
Although a plus with a new terrain is you can't abuse the teleporters or the creep ai.
Abusing the teleport is pretty simple, hit creeps have them chase you then go into the teleporter before they kill you, repeat.
A more abusive strategy if your your allies are dead if you have a ranged hero is blinking below the shops then hitting the creeps as they're about to enter the goal, they'll go all the way around back to try and kill you, but they'll take forever to do so while you pulled those 40 creeps long enough for your allies to revive. Although it seems like it's still possible to a lesser extent with those small side alleys.
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wow i played wc3 frozen throne customs for a very long time (until sc2 came out) and I never heard of this
must of been not that amazing...
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On August 23 2011 13:44 Steel wrote:
wow i played wc3 frozen throne customs for a very long time (until sc2 came out) and I never heard of this
must of been not that amazing...
That's because everything on WC3 is Dota or Dota.
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On August 23 2011 13:55 KevinIX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 13:44 Steel wrote:
wow i played wc3 frozen throne customs for a very long time (until sc2 came out) and I never heard of this
must of been not that amazing... That's because everything on WC3 is Dota or Dota.
You guys are full of shit, enfos was one of the most popular maps ever on warcraft 3, i doubt that you played as much as you think you did. Did you ever see footies? WMW? Green TD?
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Well troll or not he could be telling the truth as Enfos dropped off in popularity on the US West Server first than dropped off on the US East, but it dropped off East mostly because WC3 was dying as a whole. Now you can only get games on EU where for some reason it's still pretty popular.
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On August 23 2011 13:37 BlackMagister wrote:
Since the game is played on Hard in most games
I guess the reason people usually play it on hard is that the waves in the beggining are to easy otherwise, and could get quite boring just waiting for the tougher ones. But I still wonder if that reason is really worth playing on hard when it clearly says (on MT), that the game only has been balanced for normal. Might also be that people don't really care when playing in random teams because nobody usually pick their hero depending on what the other players on their team pick (some do, but most don't), and that might just screw up to much of it anyway.
And what was up with the EB3 some time back, seemed like every game I got they picked EB3 plus SB (seems nobody knew how to pool). Luckily that seems to have gone away now, pobably because only the more experienced players are still playing it.
On another note, haven't seen anyone write what they would want to have in their "fantasy" Enfo for sc2. Nobody has some neat ideas? You guys just want a straight port from the MT edition?
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Well my personal opinion is that the MT Team is really out of touch given how little they play the game even back when they were active. It was balanced for normal, but players sucked for a long time, now that players are good it's a bit too easy to make it to the end on normal which makes certain heroes imbalanced like Time Mage and Entropist. Although these two can be imbalanced even before then which is being discussed on the forums, but yes some heroes are clearly better end game than others.
As far as improving Enfos in SC2 there doesn't need to be any direct Enfo ported heroes, a few ideas could be inspired by Enfo maps but there is enough SC and possible original ideas to not need anything from the MT version. If I were to make the map I definitely would not include MT's bonus wave idea and would consider removing things like Combat Mastery and Evasion trying to balance tanks without evasion.
I would remove Darkrift as most of the time it's a newb spell that can be countered too easily by one player who knows what they're doing with purification before the summons can be sheared. Even if the summons are sheared two purification by two good players nullifies sheared summons. There also is the problem of summoning weak waves that will just suck which is why they added beast slay to some summon waves, although it still hasn't completely fixed the problem. Then end game it can become just a summon fest because then they're too strong.
A idea that I really liked from the Clan Enfo version that Sorck made of Clan Enfo of US East not the recent Clan Enfo of EU, which I helped a little bit with, is the boss creep accompanying each wave. The creep leader would randomly or alternate? between the left and right spawn point and would be a beefy version of the regular creep waves, but would be immune to certain abilities like Arcane's Frost Scythe. The creep leader might also have a special ability like an aura that helps their wave do better. It had some other interesting ideas which I can't remember atm since it's been a while since I've played it.
DL Link
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/enfo-ce-v3-4996beta-81286/
Linking to the 3.4996 version since I think .4997 is just a stolen and renumbered version but could be wrong.
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On August 23 2011 13:55 KevinIX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 13:44 Steel wrote:
wow i played wc3 frozen throne customs for a very long time (until sc2 came out) and I never heard of this
must of been not that amazing... That's because everything on WC3 is Dota or Dota.
I know what you're trying to say but that's not true these days! If you load up TFT and look at the games list, you'll see that DOTA only takes up a fifth of the spots in general. Wintermaul Wars, Enfo's, and a smattering of other maps are still quite popular
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On August 19 2011 19:31 Rakmo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 12:11 Puph wrote:That is a pretty classy remodel of the original terrain. The Northern portion is a bit foggy, but are the spawns clearly separated from the start and do they end up converging at the first bottleneck pretty much like the old Enfo's 2 spawn layout? Looks nice man I would be down to test or offer input Am on NA if you like further information just PM me! Gosh I love enfos <3 The spawn is currently not split at the start, but split when they reach the crossroad. We considered doing the split like in the original, but we really didn't see what purpose it served. But if you have any good reasons to add the split, we could easily do so. I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
So how's it going? Any progress? Lon time since you posted.
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People still working on this? i wouldnt mind helping to test this out.
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Yeah, I'm still working with it, although not that serious. I am having a break from it right now because I have been on vacation, and will be abroad for a little more then 3 more weeks aswell. So I probably won't get anything done the coming month, meaning there will be atleast that plus some more development time, before I feel I have a version good enough for people to try out.
I have no idea how it's going for the other guy though, seems he was a bit more serious about his project, but he hasn't posted in a while.
However, when (if?), my version gets far enough it could need more testing, I will look trough this thread and contact the volunteers, so I appreaciate it.
I still think that people should post here if they have good ideas and stuff they would like to see in their ideal version.
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Hi its been awhile since anything has been posted. It would seem that there was work being done on a SC2 version of enfos by some patrons. To my dismay I still cannot find a version of quality on SC2 a year and some months after the last thread. Are some of you still working on it? Is enfos going to die?
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Is anyone still interested in this? I've been making an enfos style (I say style because it has many differences but a similar core concept (heroes, waves, items, abilities)) map on and off since about a year after release. Currently has 45 waves, every 15th wave is a boss with its own abilities and strategies although only the first boss is complete. 4 fully finished heroes, 2 more near complete, and ideas that haven't yet made it to the editor for another 4 (there will be 16 in total), a full shop system (this part is very different). There are a few more tidbits that make this unique too. The biggest problem with it in its current state is the balancing (it's hasn't exactly been designed to solo), so if anyone would like to take a look, let me know and we can sort something out.
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Arkinsaal i would be interested in trying it out.
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Heya,
I'm the author of "Desert Strike HotS" and several other page 1 maps over the years (EU). I've been using the editor for years now.
I've been working on an Enfos Team Survival map for the last 4 months.
I expected it to be done this week, but I was contacted by Blizzard concerning one of my older projects, something I'm pretty excited about, delaying it somewhat.
It should be done within a week or two.
To go with the StarCraft theme, it is modelled after the HotS intro trailer where you have to defend that rather large Mengsk statue which you see falling over at the end, complete with fitting terrain. Pretty hyped about releasing this.
I'll be releasing a single-team version called "Horde Mode" within a week, to test the waves and mechanics.
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On May 07 2013 00:53 Tya wrote:
Heya,
I'm the author of "Desert Strike HotS" and several other page 1 maps over the years (EU). I've been using the editor for years now.
I've been working on an Enfos Team Survival map for the last 4 months.
I expected it to be done this week, but I was contacted by Blizzard concerning one of my older projects, something I'm pretty excited about, delaying it somewhat.
It should be done within a week or two.
To go with the StarCraft theme, it is modelled after the HotS intro trailer where you have to defend that rather large Mengsk statue which you see falling over at the end, complete with fitting terrain. Pretty hyped about releasing this.
I'll be releasing a single-team version called "Horde Mode" within a week, to test the waves and mechanics.
Wohoo, getting hyped for that. Hope it can get popular on EU!
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oh awesome, Tya, is it going to be only for HotS?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/enfomapv0114.jpg/)
