Description: Syrany was once populated by the Xel'Naga, since the energy of this wasteland was immense. When the war started, the Xel'Naga were afraid the power would fall in dark hands, and abandoned this land. Since then, the energy has built up again, and is ready for the taking.
Map status: Finished! Published on EU! / Published on US! (tnx silence-!)
The Dustin Browder award is given to maps that use destructible rocks to help balance them. Syrany has destructible rocks on the island bases to prevent Terrans from lifting to them, ultimately causing them to never be taken - very similar to many of the rock-blocked bases you'll find on blizzard maps (gold expansions on Delta Quadrant, anyone?)
Scores MotM: 23.3 Syrany
Balance 5.5 Originalit 6.5 Fun 5.0 Aesthetics 6.3
Last update: 3 March 2011
Map images: sidenote: my pc is pretty terrible, this is as good a screenshots I can get without them looking all dodgy. I suggest you play it aswell and check out the 'real' graphics
Xel'Naga Towers The Xel'Naga Towers look a little different dont they? The tower is actually below the crystals and the obelisk. Approaching the obelisk makes the normal XelNaga noise, and shoots a beam into the obelisk. Its really quite pretty There is no difference in how close you got to get to activate them. Its just aesthetics!
Map gameplay: So yeah, 4 player map, primarily focussed on 1-1 games. The natural is attached to the main, but only has 6 mineralpatches and 1 gas (I had this in before crevasse got it /sadeface). Going out of the base, theres an expansion to the right side. It has a backdoor that is faily well defendable, tho there is some brush to make it slightly harder.
Leaving this area to the middle, theres another expansion location to your right, that is very much in the open and thus harder to hold.
The keyfeature in the middle is that the gold location has 8 patches and 2 rich gasgeysers. However the area is not accessible untill you kill one of more rocks. Destroying the rocks can also be used to shorten the distance in cross/spawn matches and supply another flanking route for closer spawn matches. The middle has been opened up , but with rocks at the actual expansion. This to make battle more fun and fair. Theres not just the 'donut' but also crosspaths trough that middle area.
To finish it up, theres 1 island expansion per player, with rocks to not make them too easy to take.
Other map info: Playable area: 168 x 168 Terrainset: XelNaga Worldship Players: 4
ToDo list: - Aesthetics and doodads a little more.
Replays and Testing: Send replays to arvidslump@gmail.com , I'd love to see how everyone likes the map! Test all you can and want and let me know what u think is good or bad.
Final note: Thanks for reading this far I put alot of thought and time into this map, I hope you guys n girls like it. Let me know what u think!
I think there are too many "safe" bases. There's the natural which is pretty safe, but primarily the inbase natural. Plus you got a quick island which is also really safe.
Another point I'd like to make is the relative small mains and again, such a alot of other mappers tend to do; put all of the minerals against the back of the base leaving almost no room for defensive structures.
The two problems I see are how easy it is to get to 4 base (+possibly the island) and hold it with one big and one small ramp. And that in close positions there will be only one attack path till one player takes a no-island-5th.
Other than that I like the layout. Maybe one could try to move the main ramp more to the 4th (map analyzer) and make it the natural by blocking the back door expand or removing it. But that would be a big change, and not having seen games on this map it would be premature to do so.
I like how overstuffed the middle expo is, so it might really get relevant.
@ EffectS & Scrubs & Corak : What do you suggest I'd do? What I have in mind: - Remove 4th base alltogether - Place destructible rocks on the island to require actual units there at some point edit: did this one just now
Would that help ?
@ EffectS : I've edited the mains to have more space behind them. Mistake on my part, allways start there and dont ch oeck back enough (updated screenshot)
@ Corak : Thanks
@ Gentso : Theres 4 XWTs looking at it, 4 points of entrance ... If you get that planetary down and keep it down, you deserve it
General on the middle area, its sposed to be a risk / reward thing. Its not open from the start, its attackable from everywhere and you get vision on it from everywhere. Reward being 2 extra patches and 2 extra gasses.
Its published on EU , I'd love to get everyones opinion!
terran = triple expand on this map. seriously, they could go for a double expand right off the bat, and still be completely safe. get rid of the islands, and make the "3rd" ramp a crap ton bigger. i also say get rid of the side base and making more options to attack.
I don't think the rocks @ the middle are needed. For instance the protoss or terran would only have to break open 1 path, build a CC up, then he essentially only needs to protect that one entrance into his base because he could put a couple units/cannons/tanks behind each of the other rock walls and be mostly protected.
My criticisms: too many easy bases and too few avenues for attack. This seems like a turtler's dream. (So, not much fun.)
My suggestions: Remove the naturals and islands (make the base tucked closest to the main choke the natural, removing the back door ramp up to it). Use the extra room to make the main larger and to manipulate the 3rd -- perhaps make the 3rd further away from the natural and connect it to the low ground (looking something like the current 3rd) (might have to move the low ground 4ths to do this). Finally, I would do something about the middle semi-island. 2 gold expos for the price of 1 is way too much. I doubt the risk is as high as you think. What I think you need it more room to attack in, so I would make that center section normal high ground sans expo sans rocks. I think the important thing here is to have interesting terrain to fight on, so feel free to experiment based on how you think games will play out. I would also remove the 4 low ground XN towers and make 1 or 2 on the new high ground.
Those are my modest suggestions. I like the way the map looks so I hope you can shape it into something awesome.
@ mangoloid : Tnx for the response. Ive updated the 4th (see screenshot below) . The middle I wanna playtest it before I make some changes to it, but ill definately keep it in mind. The islands same thing, playtest required to see how much of a difference it makes.
Im not sure about your comments regarding the fighting area. It seems pretty spread out (specially with the new 4th)... Will see how that playtests!
New situation (where 4th used to be, 4th and 5th merged now)
Want to point out a little thing that hasn't been mentioned yet: for adjacent spawns, counterclockwise has a much worse time with the towers. Anticlockwise's tower covers everything, yours doesn't, and getting theirs is much farther away.
This is a very nice go at a GSL sized map, looking forward to the updated layout.
Hmmm thats a good point, didnt think about that yet. What can I do about that? Shift the mains? Shift the XNO? Somethn else? Im not sure, the mains shifting seems to be the least aesthetically hard to do
Yeah, you would have to move the ramps so that either the close tower doesn't cover you either direction, or the close tower covers everything from either direction. (Probably the first option is better.) You could reposition the towers too, but I know that'd be annoying. One solution, not too much change: rotate them clockwise about 1 hour so they're equidistant (or close enough) between the adjacent spawns.
This is a very nice looking map. One thing I don't like here are the Xel'naga towers' placement. No way of getting your army across without being spotted if the enemy controls all four. Reposition them maybe or remove entirely. Overall, I like it.
Ok Things I will do: - Shift the ramps ( and probably whole main raised area ) a few blocks counterclockwise - Remove the rocks leading up to the middle, take away 1 gas and 2 mineralpatches ( leaving 3 gas + 6 patches ) and putting 1 or 2 sets of rocks in the middle.
By opening up the middle I want to make the XWO's more versatile. We will see how it goes!
Tnx for the feedback so far guys, some solid pointers Im at work atm (GSLTIME!!) , but I'll edit everything when I get home, stay tuned!
@nukcak3: You do realise thats the case on pretty much every map right? You cant move anywhere on xelnaga caverns if the enemy holds both towers, you cant on metalopolis and so on and so on. If you choose to abandon all 4 towers, you are at a disadvantage. You can hold the closest 2 and leave the other 2 for your opponent to even it out. Or you can take all 4 and hold there. They are supposed to have that effect on the game
Air still gets past all towers when controlled normal. I think its fair as it is , apart from the slight advantages to the closer player. But like I said in this post, im going to fix that lateron in the day.
On February 22 2011 21:48 Exstasy wrote: Please don't remove any bases, the map is perfect as is. I don't understand what people think the downside is to easier expansions?
Im not removing any more expansions, just toning the middle down a little.
I think you are looking at the comments about the first draft of the map. There the map had another base between the current 4th and the main, so you had the natural + 2 other expansions all on the same ramp to cover So yeah I removed that one and merged it with the current 4th base.
Easier expansions arent bad, but theres a fine line in it being easy and being too easy
Edit: I need some help here guys. Im breaking my head over how to fix the XWO balance issues. Heres my problem:
- If I shift the ramp to the right, the 'backdoor' has got to go. That will make the 3rd way too easy to hold imho - If I twist the middle, the XWO are going to be in a way different spot, making my little obelisk power grid thing way ugly - If I redo the middle completely I gotta remove the gold expo in the middle. Now I did plan on that, but I need something to justify 4 towers checking it out. It has to be thát important - If I shift the whole outter ring around to make it balanced, the obelisk powergrid ends up in the 4th and near the backdoor, making it even more imbalanced in the end.
Id like you to think along with me, let me know what you think needs to be changed.
- (1) If I shift the ramp to the right, the 'backdoor' has got to go. That will make the 3rd way too easy to hold imho - (2) If I twist the middle, the XWO are going to be in a way different spot, making my little obelisk power grid thing way ugly - (3) If I redo the middle completely I gotta remove the gold expo in the middle. Now I did plan on that, but I need something to justify 4 towers checking it out. It has to be thát important - (4) If I shift the whole outter ring around to make it balanced, the obelisk powergrid ends up in the 4th and near the backdoor, making it even more imbalanced in the end.
Id like you to think along with me, let me know what you think needs to be changed.
My head hurts
I numbered your points so I can address them clearly.
-(1) I think there might be enough space to shift everything, including the 4th, a bit anticlockwise. If you just rotate, you end up with the problem in (4). But I think you can push the 4th base farther away from center and oriented differently in order to give room for that "backdoor" ramp.
-(2) I know it hurts to reconfigurate work you had already considered finished (and very pretty at that). I think maybe you are fixated on keeping that design exactly. You could do something like this: have the powerline originate in the same place and travel in on the diagonal. Then when it gets to the current XWO (hehe) spot, make a 90degree corner turn left, then travel a few tiles to a new spot for the XWO, effectively rotating clockwise (like I previously suggested). You could use variations of this idea to accommodate whatever you end up actually doing.
-(3) You're right, and I think the gold expo necessary. Alternatively, you could have a 3 gas expo, or some high yield gas.
See thats what I needed Thanks for that. On point 2, I think I will go along with that, only gotta watch out not to make it into a swastika of some sorts with the lines
I think I can make that work. See the thing is with the whole aesthetics and layout, usually I notice it, adjust, then 'paint' the map. But this I completely missed (didnt follow checklist /slap) so I painted it and even did a revision on it before someone clever pointed it out. So thats 2 big versions of thinking I missed it. Meanwhile my map was so painted that its hard to go back
I think I will take you up on the high yield gas, taking gasses down from 4 to 2, making it less bulky in the middle.
Whats your opinion on the rocks that are in the middle? Keep em where they are, or just put rocks at the actual expansion, leaving the ramps open...
I hate that feeling where you are getting aesthetics done and you realize you have a major layout problem. >< You can do it though!
Personally, I would put rocks on the expo site, not the walkways. The more paths the better on a map like this with just a donut for main routes. But it works fine either way, it would only be used in cross positions without rocks blocking access.
I opened up the middle and put rocks at the actual expansion instead of on the ramps. The time both scouts get to the XWO is deadeven now. Also made the mains slightly larger.
On February 24 2011 07:07 iGrok wrote: It would be cool if standing at the small obelisk actually activated towers at the larger obelisks. With like 16 vision instead of 22 for balance.
Yeah, I have no idea how to do that tho Can you enlighten me?
Although the map is BEAUTIFUL and full of detail, i played on it and i personally think it has TOO much detail, and it's too bright! it actually kind of hurts my eyes after a macro game! the outdoor natural does not need that second attack path, i suggest adding a set of rocks to block it off, zergling run-bys will be too powerful! i know there is an in-base natural but unless you are doing a six gate as protoss, you need your four gas! oh and i also think the islands are pretty useless and terran favored, because there already is an in-base natural, no need to add an island near it too! oh and please make the Xel'Naga towers a bit more unique than the other poles around it, when I'm not looking at the minimap and I'm controlling my army (clicking on the screen and moving around) i get confused which pole is the Xel'Naga and stuff!.
Great map though Karot, you've improved your map making skills greatly since your first map <3.
On March 04 2011 04:52 PaPoolee wrote: i personally think it has TOO much detail, and it's too bright! it actually kind of hurts my eyes after a macro game!
Is there anyone willing to make a screenshot of the map, using higher quality settings (high, ultra)?
I need to see what you see, cus when I play the map, I dont really see a problem. But my PC cant handle anything above medium without catching on fire so...
Tnx Papoolee, tnx for playing it and not 4gating <3 The map is submitted now on MotM, I will take their comments and everyones comments here to continue adjusting it, even after MotM.
But yeah, if anyone can make a highres screenshot and post it / link it, that would be awesome
here it is, the pictures you requested at ultra graphics! i don't know if you could see what i see when I'm actually playing, nonetheless here are the links: http://imgur.com/cP51G http://imgur.com/JNt0x :D.
The Dustin Browder award is given to maps that use destructible rocks to help balance them. Syrany has destructible rocks on the island bases to prevent Terrans from lifting to them, ultimately causing them to never be taken - very similar to many of the rock-blocked bases you'll find on blizzard maps (gold expansions on Delta Quadrant, anyone?)
Well... atleast I won something updating MotM scorecard when the individual results are in!
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/dYxYm.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/amjwn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i56.tinypic.com/21brrtd.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vsgEk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4AuQc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/SVLVD.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ampBq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/FkzAu.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/35bht.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/eOSHk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/mOm66.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/2xof4.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/om741.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/TLyWT.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/hV4Uk.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/1GG5s.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/JnSbk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ebgud.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/qqhe6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/PWIl4.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/OVtpr.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/HMawa.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/mweUo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/dR3FY.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/sJpRz.jpg)
There is no difference in how close you got to get to activate them. Its just aesthetics!
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/SjNJ6.jpg)
Rly curious what u think of the endresult
