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Active: 1880 users

Balance considerations of shrinking units

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Polatrite
Profile Joined August 2010
United States135 Posts
December 16 2010 22:01 GMT
#1
I had an idea for a custom melee map that involves shrinking units to create a "miniature" effect on some of the best 4/8 person maps. I'm trying to make a checklist of various balance considerations that I should account for. The original idea:

* Shrink units to 30-50% of their original size (all units would be scaled by the same amount, the actual amount would be decided by some testing)
* Shrink the radius of all splash/AOE mechanisms
* Cut the cost of all units by 50%
* Double the supply cap

Since I had the original idea, a number of balance considerations came up in my head. I want to know if you can think of some more. Here's what I got:

* Vision radius of units would be quite large
* Unit speed would be unrealistically fast for their size
* Range of units would encompass much larger spreads than they currently do, however if range were simply cut to 30-50% it would essentially negate the concept of the map - does this require buffs for shorter range units? (does it all even out if unit speed stays 100%?)
* Considerably more surface area for all units on buildings (Shrink buildings too? Quadruple building health? What about repair?)
* Effectiveness of defensive structures?
* Splash/AOE would perform much differently on existing maps, but this is rather central to the concept (tiny units on "tiny" maps = big maps, but consequently large chokes, etc.)
* Should capacity of drop vehicles be changed? (They're smaller too, but...)
* Rate of gathering shouldn't theoretically be altered if units retain the same speed, since size is irrelevant
* With cut cost of units, 1 base income becomes much higher than standard 1 base income, which means that individual unit producing structures (to include the hatchery) become less effective at spending available resources
- Does this have major race-specific considerations based on the above? Yes, probably, but what exactly?

This type of custom map seems like a pretty interesting balance challenge. I mostly just want to see how things would feel if everything was tiny!
I'm not going to cut my hair any time soon. I'm gonna let it grow out - I'm gonna become a shag monster. Shaggy monster, I guess, is what I should have said. I will ALSO be a shag monster. day[9] the shag monster, who plays both games and girls *snap*
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
December 16 2010 22:08 GMT
#2
that would actually be pretty cool.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
December 16 2010 22:27 GMT
#3
In order:

Yes it would
Yup.
Range wouldn't change all that much - but ranged units would be able to bunch up more and hold off more melee units. Alternatively, you could cut range and speed, but this would lead to slower games.
You thought PFs were bad before lol... I'd suggest adding a diminishing return system for repair.
defensive structures would be just as effective.
Splash/AOE wouldn't really change if its radius is cut also.
Not if the units are also smaller. I'd play around with leaving ships the regular size, and doubling transport space
Correct.
If you cut cost of structures as well, shouldn't be a huge problem
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Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
December 16 2010 22:50 GMT
#4
Wouldn't Zerg have a significant advantage because the map is now really large and has a lot of open room, considering the units are shrunk?

Good idea though, but you might need to make miniature maps too for it to work.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
December 16 2010 22:57 GMT
#5
The map being large has more to do with speed than unit size. And if all units are small, surface area still works against lings.
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Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
December 16 2010 22:58 GMT
#6
One problem I can see is that it favors Zerg slightly. I've seen Zerg surround a building or destructible/backdoor rocks with zerglings before, and still taken a while to bring it down. This isn't necessarily a make-or-break problem, but one to be aware of. The other races are probably fine in terms of building surface area: I've never had a problem with it as Protoss, and Terran would be least affected, due to their ranged-heavy arsenal.
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
TedJustice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1324 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-16 23:21:23
December 16 2010 23:17 GMT
#7
Technically the rate of gathering would be slightly slower, because the collision radii of both the minerals and units would be smaller so it would take slightly longer for them to actually get in range of the minerals.

But it'd be such a minute difference it shouldn't even matter.

Also, reducing collision size tends to make Zergling pathing a lot glitchier, in my experience.
Chiburi
Profile Joined July 2010
United States166 Posts
December 16 2010 23:25 GMT
#8
If you make units cheaper, would they also build faster? You might want to consider adjusting the spawn rate for larva for zerg in either case, or zerg will have to make additional hatcheries just to spend all of their money. Although, if you only make the units cheaper, but build times the same, the other races would also have to make more production structures. This definitely seems like an area that you would want to look into for balance reasons.
"Though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think we lack the courage to stand in the light." ~Zeratul
Liquid_Adun
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada205 Posts
December 17 2010 01:47 GMT
#9
Minature units, it reminds me alot of the scrapstation reaper/ colossus glitch.
I have returned.
TheGiftedApe
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1243 Posts
December 17 2010 02:27 GMT
#10
no offense but wont you run into the problem, if you scale EVERYTHING down such as the range and vision, that the game will play excatly as it does now? just with smaller models...
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Polatrite
Profile Joined August 2010
United States135 Posts
December 17 2010 14:31 GMT
#11
My original plan wasn't to scale down buildings or any map features. I may have to scale down buildings or otherwise adjust their health to accommodate greater surface area.
I'm not going to cut my hair any time soon. I'm gonna let it grow out - I'm gonna become a shag monster. Shaggy monster, I guess, is what I should have said. I will ALSO be a shag monster. day[9] the shag monster, who plays both games and girls *snap*
baskerville
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
541 Posts
December 17 2010 15:12 GMT
#12
gogogo, can't wait to visit said future map(s).
Love the concept, however you must early decide if you want it to remain somewhat similar (gameplay wise) to sc2 or if you just wanna get to see a new game come out of your mod (and both opinions are valid and exiting). I foresee a lot of work in order to make sense of it all if you try to reach back to sc2's current data stat gameplay.....
Again, good luck, super good idea and lot's of work ahead.
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