EPTIf you choose to pick Raven, you have to have the mindset of supporting the team into victory, not grabbing kills. Albeit I did manage to grab 3 kills on my first try with the Raven lol.
[A] Star Battle - Page 24
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
If you choose to pick Raven, you have to have the mindset of supporting the team into victory, not grabbing kills. Albeit I did manage to grab 3 kills on my first try with the Raven lol. | ||
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baconbits
United States419 Posts
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
On January 14 2011 13:28 baconbits wrote: raven can shut down other ships with blackout/emp and gets a decent nuke even if its slow to hit its mark. Railgun needs to be changed somehow, to make it more attractive, but all in all a pretty balanced and definately support ship Maybe there should be an upgrade that removes the Railgun's cool down? Like the upgrade that removes the cool down from warp from the Carrier? That would make the Railgun way more attractive. | ||
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closey
Hong Kong272 Posts
On January 14 2011 14:14 Antares777 wrote: Maybe there should be an upgrade that removes the Railgun's cool down? Like the upgrade that removes the cool down from warp from the Carrier? That would make the Railgun way more attractive. I personally think it's the charge-up that should be removed. | ||
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krazymunky
United States727 Posts
usually just 4 lasers and 2 speed. get 200 for Point defence drone get to 400 energy. then upgrade shield and shield transfer speed | ||
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closey
Hong Kong272 Posts
On January 13 2011 08:17 pookychoo wrote: I'd rather just provide my opinion on this map as I see it. If you don't like my opinion then you're welcome to disagree, as I disagree with your point of view that "Star Battle employs a totally different concept as DoTA". Lanes, creep waves, towers, unit upgrades, it is dota in space but with some minor differences, such as no respawn, upgrades instead of items etc. OK, firstly, allow my apologize for totally rejecting your thoughts out instead. That was my bad. I'm not open enough. I have no excuses but ok, here's my two cents. To be honest, when DoTA came out, SB is nowhere out, and thus I had another map in mind when I do the comparison as in why I don't like DoTA: Temple Siege (UMS game in BW, my favourite so far) DoTA has a threshold too high for newbs DoTA is a very challenging map, with an extremely steep learning curve. Hard to kick off, very newb unfriendly. Also, it seems games like DoTA always have a 'best build' where a hero totally ignores one or two of his abilities and simply does not upgrade it for 'best performance'. That alone took out a lot of the fun from those who like to mess around and just have fun instead of serious competition.. Temple Siege? Newb to this game? Get the rine! Want a different experience? Hey, try that ling! Almost all heroes works. True there are some heroes that's made for pros, but all heroes are play-able by newbs. All the upgrades are the same, all the hotkeys are the same. No need to remember the exhaustively long list for each individual hero. In fact, if you are lazy at learning you can simply 'power play' all the heroes(investing everything in attack/defense without spells). You still will not get behind too much. In TS, all you get is a hero, somewhere to upgrade, and a whole base to protect. The graphics are not as good, in fact it's ugly, but hey, it works better. Just like how bnet is working without bnet2's flashy graphics(and better in this case!) No, nothing else, you don't get... The scary items I totally dislike the item ideas in DoTA. My first experience in DoTA is sitting there, reading up all the information and description of the items, and got confused. Too many things to read and if I don't read... The pros hate you Unlike in a game of Temple Siege if you f**k up in DoTA all other pros will yell at you 'GTFO YOU FCUKING NOOB! STOP FEEDING THE ENEMY *insert various rage message here*' The pros will abuse and insult you to no end until either: 1) you curl up in a corner and cry like the little girl that you once were, or 2) they get a heart attack first. TS? Yes, feeding happens. We still will hate the noobs in our team but hey, they stay dead. We don't get too angry over, and the noob gets less abuse. Both side benefit from less negative emotion. And if it is stressful for you... StarBattle/Temple Siege makes you a goddamn hero Remember how to upgrade in SB and TS? 4lasers/1 weapons(as lot)---bam. Headshot every shot. Look at those creeps, you measly, useless creep. Tremble in fear under my super powerful laser (blades)! This is actually one of the funnest part of both games---you get to squish those creeps no end as though as they are something very inferior than you. Be honest here: who haven't experienced a day with lots of difficulties and pant up stress? What better to release those stress than a curb stomp battle right at the start? Those mindless zombies are the best target. Mindless zombies in space? Double awesome! DoTA offers you none of those experiences. The spawns will own you as though as they got them on a hotkey. You're going down, down, down, down-and you just can't believe you haven't even made a kill! It's less fun that way until in late game you approach the status of a god where spawns can't harm you anymore. Then it's only the players. But here's a twist, in SB and TS... The As the game progresses the creeps get stronger and stronger, and that's where the pain starts. Ideally the maximum fun starts. Apart from dealing with the players trying to split your hull in half you also have to be on a lookout for the creeps around taking down your engine without you noticing and by the time you realize it, BAM! Too late. This is similar to the start of a DoTA game, so as a thought you probably be thinking: what the hell, closey, you're not making any sense! You said you hate it a while ago but now you said this is good? That's because... The difficulty increase is gradual Yeah, the tough problems comes at you one by one. Here's a list of basic problems you have to deal with DoTA in the beginning, ALL AT ONCE. Have fun with your headache: 1) The heroes 2) Their upgrades 3) The spawns 4) The lanes 5) The items It's like having to jump straight to quadratics when you just learned division and multiplication. Your maths teacher now tells you to learn algebra, the concept of square root and graph plotting all at once. Overnight. Test tomorrow. Whoever fails the test will be crucified. Apart from item 5, SB and TS have the same problems they have to face, but here's the timeline of when those problems you have to deal with: 1) Beginning: the heroes(but really, even the stupidest of the noobs figured out the rine is probably the easiest to play, some how. 2) After game start: the lanes(but that can be dealt with a "WHERE ME GO?" and since the creeps spawn immediately, it's pretty darn obvious. unlike in DoTA you wait for a whole damn minute without creeps. 3) When you first get your upgrade: the upgrades (now what am I supposed to do with all those bonus I stashed up from mindlessly killing all those poor creeps? Since the farming part is so mindless, you should have had plenty of time to figure out what you want or at least ask about it. 4) After game passes 20 minutes: the creeps. You have had a lot of skirmishes with your enemy, and you survived. You are warmed up and starting to get bored of this PvP action, BAM, spawn upgrades, in your face. You are suddenly swarmed by a bunch of monsters that are capable of harming you(but still not out right killing you), a new joy is found. And even, the solutions are actually quite clear and easy to figure out without going online to read a guide or something, unlike DoTA. Especially TS---I have never seen any website dedicated to people discussing and posting strategies and build. They are so daylight clear there is no need of such thing. Being killed by the creeps is not so sad in SB/TS 'cause it is so rare it's actually funny. In DoTA...more rage and insults from your team. Also, in SB/TS the lanes are actually not as critical to DoTA as one has no limiting lanes----you see there, people likes to be free. Who here never had the dream of flying at least once, even in your childhood? SB won at this. In TS, the map is relatively small and each lane is equally accessible, there is no problem with that. DoTA lanes are just...here my complaints: 1. They're too far apart. I went to the left most lane only to find that there's another hero kill stealing all my kills, so I want to go to the middle lane. I walk all the way there, only to find I am a bunch of levels behind already. 2. The graphics are obstructing the lanes. I can't really tell if that is a path at all, or is it just a decoration? The map makers spent too much effort in making the map look nice the way ACTIVEVISION blizzard spent in making bnet2 look nice. I am totally confused with the hidden lanes, the secret lanes, and...am I supposed to hide in this bush? does my opponent get vision across them?(You know, like the fog and bushes in melee...) Speaking of lanes, one thing that bugs me no end in DoTA is... The mobility is limited Playing DoTA makes me feel like Jesus. I have to walk everywhere. In SB you get the handy 'warp' which you can just jump right into the fry and fire your lasers away. In TS if you managed to capture the warp game you can also teleport there to get into the fry as quick as possible. DoTA? Walk, with the occasional blink/teleport to make you walk there faster. The whole 5 seconds without actions bores me. Also, in TS there are some extremely mobile character that can also get away without warp. Do you get a hero that moves as fast as a hellion in the beginning of the game? Just watching the mutant zip across the map in TS makes me smile from the bottom of my heart. The game is evolving The biggest thing that puts TS the top fav. map of mine is that in high levels of play, everything works. You want a power rine? It works. A spell rushing rine? Also works! What? You wanna go insane with a rine with lots of HP ups? Still works! You are free to do whatever you want as long as you know what you are doing. You are totally free and unbound. SB as long as you know when to run you are even more free. DoTA? I'm sure there's a pile of 'useless' to 'rarely used' spells/abilities. Don't lie. The end should be quick What more depressing to watch your enemy tear you your flesh off bit by bit with a pair of red-hot pliers until you die? If you have to die, a swift one is more favorable. The base in DoTA takes freakin' forever to kill compared to SB and TS. OK the last build takes quite long to kill for all 3 games but seriously, the defense buildings are just standing there without dying even if you hack and shoot with your BFS and BFG for a whole minute. You have the BFG. You owned your opponents so much that they have to hide in their base and treble under your icy glar. You want carnage, you want blood, WHY AREN'T THOSE BUILDINGS FALLING! It's frustrating. The enemies also have it tough. They know they can't go out to farm, and they have to wait for you to enter their base to allow them a chance to kill you the ultimate big-bad. Not a chance. They have to wait for a long time without being able to farm/fight until you (finally) break through the front gate. According to research being unable to do anything in a game is a very big reason people dislike it. Stun is one thing, the 'sitting in base waiting for you to break in' is another. Towers in SB and TS goes down in a 'poof!' for those who have the advantage. The wait time is cut down by a lot and and the loosing side can hop into action again. DoTA is too competitive OK I'm kicking TS out of the equation as well as it is no better than DoTA in this case, but DoTA is way too competitive. If I want to compete in SC I'd play league, but after that when I want to fly a ship in my ship so I can relax, star battle is the way to go. Sorry, DoTA but I simply can't relax and mess around without being insulted into submission. I value my life a lot and don't want its last moments to be a heart attack. TL;DR: sorry I'm too tired to write a summary. Better go back up and read it whoel! | ||
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bobbob
United States368 Posts
Raven right now is really overpowered. All you need is EMP, Blackout, reactor upgrades, and then you just spam EMP. It can disable the whole enemy team's abilities. Blackout is a super versatile skill, it can be used to shut the most damaging player down in a team fight, it can be used to make sure that you get the kill on the enemy by disabling warp, it can be used to save allies by disabling the voidray or longest ranged enemy. Raven also has a great turn rate, even if it feels a tad slow. PDD is also a nice skill, but it doesn't fire fast enough to be able to deal with all the shots. Also you can just EMP the enemy raven so that he can't PDD. Creeps don't really do anything but be farmed in the early game, and even to the lategame they are only really dangerous in large numbers, caused by chasing someone a long way into their territory. I think people should stop drawing parallels to DotA, as Star Battle is clearly more of a game of Battleships or Battle Tanks. However yes, having faster games are nice, but it very often turns into who can camp outside the other team's base first, and then 10-20 minutes of the other team trying to claw their way back into the game, either following with a loss, or the team that was ahead getting too greedy and losing a few ships. I'll just go into Battle Tanks compared to Star Battle, under the same comparisons that closey makes. Learning Curve Battle Tanks had a pretty low learning curve. You had to figure out how to buy weapons, but considering you sat in the shops at the start, if you can't figure out that you have gold and should USE it at the start, then... *sigh* Other than that, you had to learn that creeps did something pretty big. Your shots didn't immedately shoot the enemy hero the moment he got into range, it fired at random enemies inside the weapon's range. So in a fight of you vs the enemy and 5 creeps, you were at a big disadvantage unless you could clean those creeps up fast. Then there were control points, which basically were moderately easy to defend, but also pretty easy to avoid getting stomped at. Overall, it took about 1 bad game for a new player to understand the basics. Items: There are an awful lot of numbers on the battle tanks items, due to the fact that it had weapon range, cooldown, damage, and DPS numbers, as well as cost. But really all a new player needed to do was buy random weapons. There were some equipments later that were good, such as speed upgrades. Other than that you had to get somewhat familiar with the commonly used tanks. The pros hate you You fail to realize that bad players exist in star battle as well. They are the guys who charge into 3 others to 'save' the guy whose shields ran out, then complain that they had no help when they died. Then they leave. Before you can tell them how stupid they were. In battle tanks, bounty earned is based on the value of their tank as well as their KD. So feeders arent worth as much money. That being said, it's still gamebreaking to play 5v4, in most cases. Being a Hero You can own creeps really badly in battletanks, but early on the creeps can own your low HP right back. So you had to sit behind your creeps, but you killed theirs quickly. Creeps The creeps in battle tanks gained 10% attack and 10% armor every 5 minutes (at least if you held 3/6 control points, you got more if you held more, and less if you held less), and players could spend extra money to upgrade them further. They take damage, so you have to worry about them at all points in the game. They aren't just free money when alone with a hero. Difficulty increase: At the start, you can get 6 different tanks. One of them is a really fragile support unit. Another is the Scout, a fast, cheap, and fragile unit. Another is called a Light Tank. Since this is battle TANKS, most people figure out they can just get the light tank. Plus they can see what everyone else is doing. Next there is the Gyrocopter, which is flying but weaker than the light tank. After that there is the medivac, which is semi-support, also flying but a bit more expensive than gyro or light. After that there is the demolisher, which buying it means you have very crappy weapons. All weapons have their range, cooldown, DPS, and damage written on it, and there is no fog, so you can read your enemies items, rather than just catch glimpses. Almost any skill works on a tank, but most players pick the right abilities, IE the stun and nuke, and something else. You just don't be dumb and stick to your creeps, and you are fine, mostly. There are lanes, however, there is a control point teleport to get to the other lane from your lane quite quickly. So mobility is somewhat limited, but there had to be an advantage to flying tanks. The game of ship battle tbh isn't evolving as far as I can see. The most recent thing was the fact that people go ranged in the late game. In battle tanks, every tank has its use within a certain price range. So a Light Tank (costing 800) will get trashed by a Heavy Tank (costing 5500). But by then you should have gotten a new tank already. Players will be helpful and tell you that you should get a new tank. The one issue with battle tanks is that games can take ages. Control points give 4% HP regen in the area to the team that controls the point, and then once you lose the control points, you have laser towers that take a while to kill. However even a long siege has to be undertaken with care, I've lost games after like 30 minutes of holding control points because one player got to farm so many creeps, and people threw themselves away, so a defender got a titan (most expensive tank, costs 35000) and we suddenly had issues killing him, and he slowly took back the control points, and beat us. However combat is fast, so it's not chasing players for half the map. Competetive There is a league to Battle Tanks, however the average player can play the game with other public players and feel perfectly fine. There is a considerable skill cap, due to the maneuvering of the tank to hit the desired targets and no other targets. I've played with some pretty good players, and they can demolish most pubs, but the better ones can at least perform decently against them. TL;DR: Don't use DotA as a comparison to Star Battle, use Battleships or Battle Tanks (and Battle Tanks is the more Newb friendly map. | ||
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closey
Hong Kong272 Posts
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
I don't like UMS games, I never played them in BW, but I love Star Battle! | ||
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PikaXchU
Singapore379 Posts
On January 18 2011 09:49 closey wrote: I totally agree----SB and DoTA is totally differen't. Stop comparing them! ^ Second this. Both games are on different game engines with different level of graphics. Gameplay wise both are also rather different. | ||
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closey
Hong Kong272 Posts
On January 18 2011 10:38 PikaXchU wrote: ^ Second this. Both games are on different game engines with different level of graphics. Gameplay wise both are also rather different. I have one last thing to add on this topic: If you still want to compare SB and DoTA treating they are the same game, then Western chess and Chinese chess are the same thing because both their objective are to take out their king. | ||
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hoper7
Poland6 Posts
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closey
Hong Kong272 Posts
On January 18 2011 21:25 hoper7 wrote: Released experimental Star Battle basic tutorial, not only for the newer players. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnowowYRJ5c Very cool. How did you pull that voice off? | ||
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hoper7
Poland6 Posts
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
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DavidHill76
United States21 Posts
It would be really awesome if we could get some kind of system like that implemented, but don't know if it's possible with custom games. | ||
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elkram
United States221 Posts
http://www.mediafire.com/?53f2qo3d45ilwku If you want one indication of how epic this is, it goes on for 1 hour and 49 minutes. This isn't 1 hour and 49 minutes of one dude just refusing to die because he lost in the first 10 minutes (SC2 equivalent would be Terran just lifting up all their bases and settling on islands and making lol amount of turrets), this is 1 hour and 49 minutes of good-solid play. Most of the time is spent at 5v6, 5v5, 4v5 and 4v4. Very little time, relatively, is spent with one team having a solid advantage and then steam rolling. Most of this game is played in the vein of eeking out tiny advantages and then taking a slight lead, all in the knowledge that if you make a mistake you will be behind. Definitely check it out if you want some good entertainment and also for your computer to lag (so many chrono rifts!) | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
So its me as a battlecruiser vs a destroyer and a raven. They are way more powerfull but I manage to get some nice missleupgrades and all the self-defence abilities. They get a little overconfident at some point and the raven dies, with the destroyer at 50% hp no shields. I have the exact same hp shields and start the chase. We both use our defenses and we kill eachother at the exact same second. Only thing is, that his last hit registerd first so on paper i lost  Was a crazy game, most of the players from the other team stayed the full 50 minutes to watch. | ||
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DarthXX
Australia998 Posts
Also that video was hilarious, especially #8 - Thou shalt not save noobs, I learned that lesson the hard way, warp in, take fire hes running away, then pulls back to help me fight when hes on like 30%hp and ends up dying ><. | ||
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FlashIsHigh
United States474 Posts
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