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I am working on a map which is mostly complete and I tried to implement some innovative stuff in it to make it stand out from other maps which may well be equally balanced/well made but just don't grab the players or spectators to want to play the map any more than any other maps.
The First thing is something I dubbed Creep webbing/Creep Threading.
It can be done with neutral tumors on the map as well as without them (just a zerg player would have to start spreading creep to make it visible obviously). Having creep already on the map also means that zerg would not have to actually have to send overlord or creep tumors all the way to that point to gain boosts. Effectively making these spots higher value terrain to be battled over. A player could even possibly use a strategy to send queen out to drop tumor(s) at this island of creep somewhere on the map. I believe a player can also use detection and kill the neutral tumors in the likewise.
Basically what you do is place lines of unbuildable pathing and creep blockers in the same spaces. You can actually draw out all kinds of designs in this, but the least confusing most effective way of doing this is just to do 1 line of block with a space on one or both sides to let one square in to the next pathable line.
This effectively makes it so zerg creep: Spreads faster, Needs less tumors, move across map more quickly, have less creep occupying in same space. So it still keeps their speed buffs but lose the ability to build anywhere.
Zerg units don't actually have to be 100% on the creep to net the speed benefits, they can be on the fringe edges of it before they lose the the boost. Which is exactly how this works.
[spoiler=Pics of Webbing]
closeup of hidden webbing in map editor.
closeup of revealed webbing in map editor
Larger view showing building pathing blocking in yellow
trying out designs 
closeup of revealed webbing but unexplored
Same area but explored
More similar areas (slightly different designs).
Overlord diarrhea or crop circles????
Before shots
After
The second concept is not all that game changing but is interesting and can be fun at the least. I don't really have a name for this but I guess I'll just call it Fakey Ramp for the sake of simplicity.
So obviously this would be best implemented into a main base, but could also be used (and arguably has been used on other maps) on other places around the map.
What it is, is a normal narrow choke to a main on level ground probably 3 spaces wide to simulate a normal ramp width ( I had to use doodad rocks and cliff to make it just right) and on this narrow choke you will place LoS blockers. The thickness of these is totally up to you but I think 1 or 2 rows juxtapose emulates a ramp best.
So since high ground in this game does not cause miss rate, but instead has the advantage of being able to see them and shoot them while they cannot see or fire back it essentially just makes acts like a ramp where neither player can see in or out. This is arguably terrible for the defender (unless they are zerg or terran where they can have air units very early to see over the shrubs).
So to balance this out, I threw a XWT inside the main base. The placement again, is up to the creator but I think a placement where it doesn't show too far outside on the main path as well as doesn't show too much around the outskirts around the main base (for air detection) would be optimal.
The cool side effect of this is that the XWT can be placed in such a distance that a scouter of an unknown base could just tap the tower to see if the player is there rather than going all the way into empty bases (saving a bit of scouting time).
Also, the owner of the XWT in their main would have to choose when to devote units to sitting at the tower to see outside their own base, so there is a little dynamic of if/when you should use workers to see instead of mine/build.
As a side effect to this I noticed that larva/eggs will set off XWT indefinitely. So zergs could place hatch next to it to keep the tower on all the time (until an enemy shares the tower with their unit).
Another technique using this concept would be to send some (or drop) units onto the tower the moment you are going to attack the front of the base completely switching the advantage of the choke around to you since you have units on both sides and can see both inside and out while they can't (its like flipping a ramp around like a light switch) Maybe we can call it lightswitching?
[spoiler=Pics of Fakey Ramp]
Showing XWT range
Here I put a bunch of unbuildable pathing to make it so tumor would have to be spread from only the very edge of the LoS shrubs to reach the green squares for the next tumor.
Showing spacing
Showing creep spread unexplored
Explored
Showing tumor distance
The third concept I used was the implementation of half gold bases. Where I just alternated the minerals to gold/blue within the same 8 patch base. So it's only going to mine out half as fast as a gold but still can give some explosive mineral bonus like a gold base can.
edit- blah spoiler breaks the image layout
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I think we can call it Nightmarjoism - the need to put names on random features in the map editor 
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I'm curious if anyone else has come up with any other gimmicks or concepts for maps. Many of these tricks or ideas ended up being some of the most important things for pro map design in bw. Things like reverse ramps, neutral blocking structures, backdoor bases, Mineral walls, Neutral geysers that when killed blocked a path (reverse Drocks), etc.
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On October 19 2010 19:10 Starparty wrote:I think we can call it Nightmarjoism - the need to put names on random features in the map editor
lol, well regardless what you wanna call it ( i could care less tbh) I still would like to see it being used more
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I've come up with a few gimmicks, but most were aimed at controlling the timing of a game.
For example,
Anti-reaper step-cliffs
Thats a player 15-controlled tank on the step, with LOS blockers to ensure that it doesn't attack early. this particular setup leaves the reaper with 20 hp. (can you tell that I came up with this before the massive reaper nerf?) P-15 controlled PFs in double-Gold expos offer more risk/reward and force air. But so far all my Hostile npc experiments haven't been really applicable in a map. Your techniques look interesting though!
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I don't think the creep one has much uses, though it's interesting. Creep tumours can only make a new one so far from the original. As for speed, it's pretty rare that you actually need the tumours to spread the creep faster, and in the end, it's not uncommon to have two or three creep tumours spreading in the same location.
The non-ramp thing is interesting.... Though I don't see many people who would use it instead of just making the main high ground. I guess it has its uses.
The gold/regular mineral thing is pretty obvious and I'm relatively certain everyone's thought of it before.
But a lot of effort put into the post =D.
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On October 19 2010 21:19 neobowman wrote:
I don't think the creep one has much uses, though it's interesting. Creep tumours can only make a new one so far from the original. As for speed, it's pretty rare that you actually need the tumours to spread the creep faster, and in the end, it's not uncommon to have two or three creep tumours spreading in the same location.
The non-ramp thing is interesting.... Though I don't see many people who would use it instead of just making the main high ground. I guess it has its uses.
The gold/regular mineral thing is pretty obvious and I'm relatively certain everyone's thought of it before.
But a lot of effort put into the post =D.
the fakey ramp is cool because it allows you to have more than 3 levels of "cliffs"
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About the webbing: there's say, 40% of non-creeped ground between the patterns. Doesn't that slow down zerg units (they might not make a nice straight line across the pattern)?
And don't buildingblockers block autoturrets? That could be a bit anoying.
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Cool stuff, it would be neat to see if some of this stuff can be implemented in new maps.
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On October 19 2010 19:10 Starparty wrote:I think we can call it Nightmarjoism - the need to put names on random features in the map editor
Sporism would be more accurate here
I don't see any good use for this. :/
On October 19 2010 21:19 neobowman wrote:
I don't think the creep one has much uses, though it's interesting. Creep tumours can only make a new one so far from the original. As for speed, it's pretty rare that you actually need the tumours to spread the creep faster, and in the end, it's not uncommon to have two or three creep tumours spreading in the same location.
The non-ramp thing is interesting.... Though I don't see many people who would use it instead of just making the main high ground. I guess it has its uses.
The gold/regular mineral thing is pretty obvious and I'm relatively certain everyone's thought of it before.
But a lot of effort put into the post =D.
There are half golf/half blue expands in the vista princess fortress
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I put a little destructible debris over a geyser at a 3-gas expansion on Axis of Industry. The 3-gas expos are in the center and with the destructible you can't fast expand to it, so it can't totally throw off the standard early game. But it could be an awesome third base to support high tech.
I think this could be used on other maps, too
Edit: out of the ideas in the thread so far I like creep threading to make creep cross a very large open space quickly and half-blue half-gold expo, because a little SCV micro could make such a base more effective, bringing back some SC1 skills.
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Yeah, finally a nice way to implement hidden swastikas etc.!!
I think the idea with LOS Blockers is good, maybe a bit hard to realize because they might be in the way of some buildings to wall off. The HY/Normal mineral expansions exist for a long time now I think.
One thing I once wanted to put into a map but couldn't because I'm a noob in data editing is neutral point defense drones. That means that they'd defend any player and just shoot all the projectiles in reach. If anyone knows how to do this, help plz^^
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oh shit u mean like PDD's that are enemy computer controlled to both players. That would be kind of interesting. Like throwing darkswarms on maps in bw.
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On October 19 2010 21:19 neobowman wrote:
I don't think the creep one has much uses, though it's interesting. Creep tumours can only make a new one so far from the original. As for speed, it's pretty rare that you actually need the tumours to spread the creep faster, and in the end, it's not uncommon to have two or three creep tumours spreading in the same location.
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Are you crazy? rare that you need to spread creep faster? Creep spreading is the single most important thing you need to be doing in every game besides spending/making your larva. It provides scouting, speed boost on most of your units, the ability to make structures, etc. So the fact that this actually gets it to spread faster and get you across the map sooner is really really good for a zerg player. If a player were to have 2 or 3 tumors spreading in the same direction then this would make it spread EVEN faster. That is the point. And finding a green square to place a tumor is not a problem at all.
On October 19 2010 22:24 burningDog wrote:
About the webbing: there's say, 40% of non-creeped ground between the patterns. Doesn't that slow down zerg units (they might not make a nice straight line across the pattern)?
And don't buildingblockers block autoturrets? That could be a bit anoying.
Yea it would block all buildings, but that's a non issue because its not going to be all over the map, I guess I should actually draw dirt or rock terrain on it to make it more clear that it's unbuildable (if there isn't ooze showing it there).
Plenty of maps have unbuildable areas, look at Luna. You just can't make an auto turret there, so an auto turret based strategy wouldn't be very wise on a map like that.
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On October 20 2010 09:56 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2010 21:19 neobowman wrote:
I don't think the creep one has much uses, though it's interesting. Creep tumours can only make a new one so far from the original. As for speed, it's pretty rare that you actually need the tumours to spread the creep faster, and in the end, it's not uncommon to have two or three creep tumours spreading in the same location.
. Are you crazy? rare that you need to spread creep faster? Creep spreading is the single most important thing you need to be doing in every game besides spending/making your larva. It provides scouting, speed boost on most of your units, the ability to make structures, etc. So the fact that this actually gets it to spread faster and get you across the map sooner is really really good for a zerg player. If a player were to have 2 or 3 tumors spreading in the same direction then this would make it spread EVEN faster. That is the point. And finding a green square to place a tumor is not a problem at all.
But there's a limit to how far you can place a creep tumour from its original. And I doubt anyone has the mechanics to plant a creep tumour exactly when its cooldown finishes either.
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On October 20 2010 09:50 CharlieMurphy wrote:
oh shit u mean like PDD's that are enemy computer controlled to both players. That would be kind of interesting. Like throwing darkswarms on maps in bw.
Kinda yeah. Btw. I'm a dumbass, it's actually really easy and I'm gonna try to implement it into my next map. Just gotta figure out how to make it have infinite energy.
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Looks interesting. This should hopefully be used in some new maps (the creep webbing), but I could also see it being hard to adjust to for non-Zerg players. (as it can modify the ground distance a tiny bit better in Zerg's favour)
I guess something I've wanted to see for quite a while is instead of having gold minerals at an expo, you have high-yield vespene. It could make for some interesting games, as it could lead to some ninja expos in an attempt to out-tech and out-resource the opponent.
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On October 20 2010 12:59 Speedbump wrote:
I guess something I've wanted to see for quite a while is instead of having gold minerals at an expo, you have high-yield vespene.
Now that's funny 
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I thought an interesting idea would be a double expansion, of a similar layout to the mining area is in the SP mission 'In utter darkness', where 2 Nexuses/CCs/Hatches are required for optimal gathering.
On topic, would the in base XWT work too much like the terran sensor tower and encourage turtling?
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On October 20 2010 11:37 FlopTurnReaver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 09:50 CharlieMurphy wrote:
oh shit u mean like PDD's that are enemy computer controlled to both players. That would be kind of interesting. Like throwing darkswarms on maps in bw. Kinda yeah. Btw. I'm a dumbass, it's actually really easy and I'm gonna try to implement it into my next map. Just gotta figure out how to make it have infinite energy.
Don't even have to do that, just stack like 100 of them. Problem solved the brute-force way.
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On October 20 2010 11:10 neobowman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 09:56 CharlieMurphy wrote:On October 19 2010 21:19 neobowman wrote:
I don't think the creep one has much uses, though it's interesting. Creep tumours can only make a new one so far from the original. As for speed, it's pretty rare that you actually need the tumours to spread the creep faster, and in the end, it's not uncommon to have two or three creep tumours spreading in the same location.
. Are you crazy? rare that you need to spread creep faster? Creep spreading is the single most important thing you need to be doing in every game besides spending/making your larva. It provides scouting, speed boost on most of your units, the ability to make structures, etc. So the fact that this actually gets it to spread faster and get you across the map sooner is really really good for a zerg player. If a player were to have 2 or 3 tumors spreading in the same direction then this would make it spread EVEN faster. That is the point. And finding a green square to place a tumor is not a problem at all. But there's a limit to how far you can place a creep tumour from its original. And I doubt anyone has the mechanics to plant a creep tumour exactly when its cooldown finishes either.
I do it all the time, not saying i'm perfect but I've got the mental timing down on how often u need to respread a tumor for the most part.
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On October 20 2010 13:03 FlopTurnReaver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 12:59 Speedbump wrote:
I guess something I've wanted to see for quite a while is instead of having gold minerals at an expo, you have high-yield vespene. Now that's funny
funny for terran,fly in get gas, tech up a bit and get out if the expansion is safe enough situated in a map?
i like the idea of highyield vespene quite a bit, pretty much a counterpart to mineral only expansions. though I think some of us might have already played with this idea.
i think mappers should take the tech pat into account. make the xtra vespene (like tripple) harder to control for example. but it might be hard to balance: map control of centre vs more expansions, bigger army used for better map control or teched up forces for small attacks. tech up and bigger army is a contradiction somehow, isn't it?
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No, funny because there's HY gas at every HY expansion already.
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On October 21 2010 00:19 FlopTurnReaver wrote:
No, funny because there's HY gas at every HY expansion already.
High-Yield gas geysers were broken for a while until one of the patches fixed them. So I know I hadn't been using them until recently. I don't know about everyone else.
Aside from that, my biggest problem with the high-yield geysers is they look exactly the same as the regular geysers. Therefore, if you use the high-yield gas at a regular, blue mineral expansion, it's difficult for the player to see the difference. With the high-yield minerals, it's easy to see because they're gold, but with the gas, you either have to click on them or start mining from them to know.
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That's why usually there's only HY gas where's HY minerals too. Easy way to see
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High Yield Gas should be another color, normal gas is green it should be orange or something.
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On October 21 2010 07:48 CharlieMurphy wrote:
High Yield Gas should be another color, normal gas is green it should be orange or something.
It should be Terrazine gas... which I think is purple?
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This is an awesome thread. I love the creativity that you guys are bringing to the table.
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How about different expansions than the standard 8/6 patch/2 gas.
Like a 12 mineral patch base, or a 4 minerals, but 3 gas base.
Or how about an expo with only 6 regular patches and 1 gas, but they have 3k mins instead of 1.5?
The possibilities are nearly endless.
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On October 19 2010 18:27 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Also, the owner of the XWT in their main would have to choose when to devote units to sitting at the tower to see outside their own base, so there is a little dynamic of if/when you should use workers to see instead of mine/build.
IMO early game you don't need to be scouting you're "ramp"; by the time you need to start watching for attacks, you've probably already got units, and lategame it won't really be detrimental to leave a unit or worker there if you really need. For example, (assuming it's the entrance to your main) you're going to have a unit there anyway if you're teching on one base, and you won't need it if you're being really aggressive. You also won't use it if you have an expo outside of it. If you happen to take a main with one, you'd do better to get more of a heads up against an attack if you want to stop it. Units/structures defending an expo from harass would be near enough to the expo that it wouldn't matter if the tower were active or not.
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So, something that hasn't been mentioned:
Force fields.
You can place them down as neutral units, and they last forever. But they can still be crushed by massive units or burrowed under by roaches and infestors.
They could be used for terrain that you want uncrossable by anything that can't crush FFs or burrow. Basically a destructible rock that can't be destroyed no matter what until the late game.
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Thats a good idea, but a little imba towards Terran. Thors are the fastest massive unit by a long shot. Still if you can balance it out, could be quite useful!
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On December 05 2010 16:58 TedJustice wrote:
So, something that hasn't been mentioned:
Force fields.
You can place them down as neutral units, and they last forever. But they can still be crushed by massive units or burrowed under by roaches and infestors.
They could be used for terrain that you want uncrossable by anything that can't crush FFs or burrow. Basically a destructible rock that can't be destroyed no matter what until the late game.
They used to expire after 15 seconds. Has this been changed recently?
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I dont know how good of an idea this would be but ill give it a shot
Have forcefields that are unbreakable but lets say have to a trigger to go on/off every five minutes
This would effectively change the dynamics of the map for ground units
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I've used forcefields to block expos. and such. and hostile PDDs overtop of destructable rocks forcing you to have to melee/projectileless attack them to break them.
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On December 05 2010 18:30 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 16:58 TedJustice wrote:
So, something that hasn't been mentioned:
Force fields.
You can place them down as neutral units, and they last forever. But they can still be crushed by massive units or burrowed under by roaches and infestors.
They could be used for terrain that you want uncrossable by anything that can't crush FFs or burrow. Basically a destructible rock that can't be destroyed no matter what until the late game. They used to expire after 15 seconds. Has this been changed recently?
I don't know how recently it changed, but using them in my map, they stayed forever.
Expiring in 15 seconds is a function assigned to them by the spell, it's not native to the forcefield itself.
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Funny that I stumble upon this topic.... I was wondering if it's possible to add custom units and effects into custom maps... such as custom dark swarms, custom disruption webs, custom cover/miss-chance (SC1 doodads), or other stuff.
I'm curious about what are the limitations of melee for maps. I think in beta I played a melee game where all build times were reduced to 0, so I guess there's not much limitations, lol. I guess triggers are one of the only limitations?
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You didn't play a melee game like that. In melee, non of the units can be changed, no triggers added, no player-controlled units on the map at the start.... other stuff that i'm forgetting to say right now
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On December 07 2010 05:29 iGrok wrote:
You didn't play a melee game like that. In melee, non of the units can be changed, no triggers added, no player-controlled units on the map at the start.... other stuff that i'm forgetting to say right now OK I was suspecting that the data couldn't be edited, I guess I was mistaken that it was a melee mode game. That of course means no custom units,to emulate SC1's, but certainly there will be new things discovered I suppose (force fields were mentioned already for instance).
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