EPT[UMS] [D] Nexus War Strategy discussion - Page 4
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wozjflwnl
Canada344 Posts
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Ducci
United States588 Posts
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Backpack
United States1776 Posts
On August 04 2010 14:18 Stretsful wrote: I just go mass sentry with my friend who goes what ever he wants. Works almost every time haha. i've noticed that if one person goes sentry/baneling and the other person goes mass roach it's gg | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Mass baneling? are you kidding? you will push them back until they get enough ranged units (marine marauder) and then they will rape you so hard you won't be able to sit down for a week. I have beaten pure baneling so many times I cant even... Mass sentry seems strong at first, but once they get anything other than marines out (or even alot of upped marines) the sentry's dps isn't enough and you will get rolled. Sentries are only strong vs marines. For what its worth...my strategy for Nexus wars... I have played way too many games, I win probably 80% of them (lose because of retard allies) Good Openings: Double Rines: Marines are a very strong start, once you get 4-5 rax you will have great ranged critical mass. This is my standard start. Zealot/Marines: one player starts zealot, other marines, after that you go mass rine....very strong in the early game if synced correctly, you can win in the first 5 minutes. Sentry/Marines: good counter to 4 rax opening, sentry will give you a big advantage vs marines. Workable openings: Reaper/zealot: very strong if correctly synced, but nearly impossible to keep the reaper behind the zealot. ONE ling into Roach: Lings blow ass, make only one, Roaches will be very strong until they get a decent amount of marauders. My usual gameplan: 1. Open double rax/zealot 2. Transition into Mass rines 4-5 rax(add sentry if they go massrines, add reaper if you opened zealot rines after 2-3 rax) 3. Transition into marauder 2-4 bunker (after 4-5 rax or when they start going roach/4+baneling) 4. Once you get 2-4 marauders you should start pushing them with a nice lump, get a hellion and medivacs 5. Add more medivac/marauder to taste 6. Add on 2-4 banshee 7.Add 2 HT if they are pushing 8. Add more marauder/Viking (enough to keep air control)/BC+Thor later(mostly thor), ALOT of HT(they are the only thing that can stop a lategame push) 9. If they get HT then you can consider adding a carrier lategame, as their ht will waste a ton of storms on the interceptors. GOOD UNITS: Marines Marauders Banshee Viking Thor Tanks are ok, but don't make them, marauders do the same thing better and cheaper and get healed. Immortals BC Hydra (until storm) HT UNITS THAT ARE GOOD EARLY AND THEN BECOME USELESS: Reaper Hellion Sentry Roach DON'T MAKE THESE UNLESS YOU ARE FUCKING AROUND: Lings Phoenix DT (NEVER!) Infestor Queen Muta Stalker Ultra Baneling (they cant build up into a push---a marauder eats like 9) BASIC IDEAS: At the start of the game....melee units will be a bit stronger than ranged, after 3-5 structures, ranged units will begin achieving critical mass. After very early game all nonranged units become TRASH....do not make them. Marauders are the best ground units until late game...they rape roaches because of their longer range and can easily take down any melee and tanks/thor/ultra/hydra...then they get healed. Banshee can make breaking a push super hard because of their long range and dps/cloaking, they will kill all detectors and make counterpushing nearly impossible. Thor are great because their high HP makes them gather in huge numbers, they help you get air control with AOE attack. Viking are the ultimate air control fighter, massive range makes them gather in huge masses behind your army and requires nuking/massthor to clear out. Spam HT later game, they do MASSIVE damage to a pushing ball....if there is one tip I have for Nexus Wars noobs then it is to make a ton of these. Don't bother making a cannon against high hp units (marauder and up), DO make a cannon if you have to vs massrines/ling/bane---it will kill 6980759086 of them. Pylons are not enough income to bother with mostly... RANGE IS KING if you have any questions or want an explanation of why something just ask | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
Currently that doesn´t matter because the unit balance is godawful but maybe the author will eventually balance it above "Just spawn Multiplayer units and A-Move". It´s so bad that they can´t restrict Players to a "race", the balance needs the security net that anyone can beat a OP strategy by using the same OP strategy... | ||
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LeDuck
Germany152 Posts
Why did you ignore ghosts? They kill an infinite number of marines if they're not targeted. Since soooo many people go for mass marine, it's not unusual to have ghosts on the field with +30 kills, snipe is so underestimated. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On August 04 2010 20:23 LeDuck wrote: @ sob3k Why did you ignore ghosts? They kill an infinite number of marines if they're not targeted. Since soooo many people go for mass marine, it's not unusual to have ghosts on the field with +30 kills, snipe is so underestimated. They cost too much...by the time they will be coming out a decent player will already be moving well into marauder or another sturdy unit composition. Pure Marine is a very poor strategy that can be beaten by any number of things. They can be a good pile-on unit to make reversing a push very difficult....but in a normal gameplay environment I would rather transition into marauders/medivac (which are strong vs ghost), or spend the 150 on an HT (which will also brutalize massrine pushes) | ||
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LeDuck
Germany152 Posts
On August 04 2010 22:18 sob3k wrote: They cost too much...by the time they will be coming out a decent player will already be moving well into marauder or another sturdy unit composition. Pure Marine is a very poor strategy that can be beaten by any number of things. It's true that they take too long in the early game, but as soon as you established a decent lineup, they are a great addition. Though the actual question was, why did you leave them out in your classification? You don't seem to be big fan of them, but you can still add them to "crappy units"  It's not about pure marines being a poor strategy, it's more about: Almost every player has several Barracks and sticks to them for a long time and one thing's fore sure, they are a beastly against light units. I wonder, have you really tried ghosts many times, or did you just stick to your usual composition? Because for me, the game is not about always winning the same way, but winning in a different way everytime | ||
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lobolito
2 Posts
On August 04 2010 00:04 killa_robot wrote: Both join a party, join the game as a party, real easy. Does not work!! Doesn even work, if you open a privat game and make it public. Any other suggestions or a confirm, that it works with your mates? | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On August 04 2010 23:34 LeDuck wrote: It's true that they take too long in the early game, but as soon as you established a decent lineup, they are a great addition. Though the actual question was, why did you leave them out in your classification? You don't seem to be big fan of them, but you can still add them to "crappy units" It's not about pure marines being a poor strategy, it's more about: Almost every player has several Barracks and sticks to them for a long time and one thing's fore sure, they are a beastly against light units. I wonder, have you really tried ghosts many times, or did you just stick to your usual composition? Because for me, the game is not about always winning the same way, but winning in a different way everytime ehh..I just forgot them. I left out a couple units. When I'm just doing something odd I like to open P or Z...T is too standard...and If I can squeeze out a win with pure toss thats baller. | ||
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LeDuck
Germany152 Posts
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alsowikk
109 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Protoss: Heavy immortal build 1. Open zealot 2. 2-4 sentry 3. 4-6 Immortal, these are the bread and butter...incredibly good units 5. Mix in HT and sentry/pheonix depending on whether or not they are going ground or air. 6. Finish with mass immortal and a few carriers. Immortals are just beast...Make sure you mix a ton of HT if they are going mass marine or hydra, you should clean up. Watch out for mass muta, HT are good against these too combined with sentry/pheonix (the lifting is a nice bonus). You should have nothing to fear on the ground once you get 4-6 immortals...BC's and Carriers can be hard...more pheonixes. Zerg: MASSQUEEN This is a very funny strat...can be a little tricky to get going but once you do it is actually rape. Opening is a bit freeform...basically you just want to survive until you can begin spamming queens. 1. Open 3 baneling 2. one ling 4. One roach if you need it to survive 5. If not then start spamming (SYNCED) queens...you want 8-15 eventually 6. Finish with broodlords This is hilarious....mass queen is actually is nearly invincible because they all use infuse on each other (and the broodlords), they can handle any air units and they are detectors. The only things that give this trouble are high hp heavy hitting units like ultras (Queens weakness is bad dps). You can get an ally to make a few immortals to help. Once the queen mass gets to ridiculous size even a nuke wont kill it for some reason...I guess they use infuse to save themselves or something. If you can get your ally to do the Mass Queen build too it is even stronger...almost broken. | ||
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haveblue
United States6 Posts
Do you tell them to start holding esc at an announced time A and then to release at an announced time B over VOIP? Is the production time wasted from canceling production and letting it automatically restart an issue? | ||
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Monkeyshark
United States406 Posts
Make 1 baneling nest at the beginning(enjoy getting the kills from mass marines, if they make zealots it's fine since they're not getting minerals because your baneling suicide into them) Make another baneling nest when you get 75 minerals(time it with your first one) (optional)Make another baneling nest if it's too much marines and zergling on the other side(nice resource from killing them) Make a gateway when you have 100 minerals(don't worry if your opponent cross the bridge, you want them to cross the bridge) Make Immortal when at 175(watches as your immortal slowly stack up and force your opponent to make use nuke) Make Colossus in the middle when at 300(rally them to help your opponent if they need help plus less units for them to nuke and get money later) After that just mass pylon, colossus, or void rays. You have to be constantly looking at what your opponent is making, like if they go dts you can make a sentry or something that can detect(or your partner can) and if they go banshee then make stalkers(phoenix are stupid and go for medivacs as first priority). But they won't have banshee before you can get your immortal out(once the immortal is out then you're most likely to force them to nuke first so you're winning in have one more nuke for late game). The point of the first 2 baneling building is get minerals from killing without giving minerals back to your opponent and to let your opponent cross the bridge so you can stack up your troops once the immortal is out(also immortal tanks for your baneling so you can get very easy kills(easy minerals). | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On August 07 2010 23:48 haveblue wrote: sob3k, how do you synch your units, especially with an ally? Do you tell them to start holding esc at an announced time A and then to release at an announced time B over VOIP? Is the production time wasted from canceling production and letting it automatically restart an issue? 2 ways of syncing basic is what you are talking about...select all buildings and hold escape, the problem with this is that you waste alot of production runs and have to communicate with your ally. ADVANCED: Once you have your second building down, select it and wait until your first building is almost done with its production run. Hold escape to clear it just before the second building finishes making its unit. If done correctly the two buildings should be synced. Do this with each additional building to keep them all synced. You can do this with your allies buildings too. Just wait until they are almost done building their unit, then clear your building right before it finishes, should sync them. | ||
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haveblue
United States6 Posts
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hopeful_noob
United States2 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On August 09 2010 16:51 haveblue wrote: Tried the mass queens. Didn't work. Their range and dps are too low. A sentry cuts its ground damage to 2x2. Units with any base armor render them completely useless. Couldn't even push back after a nuke. I got 3 baneling nests and then made about 10 queens before we lost. Queens have recently been changed, I haven't tried them and I don't know what exactly they did other than making them smaller (which should be a buff except vs nukes). I guarantee that I won many many games with mass queen before the latest patch, vs marauder, vs immortal. They are definitely viable if difficult to set up. Try massing them later in the game...open baneling into sentry/immortal....then later game add on 8-10, they are great for preventing counter pushes due to their unkillability in a group. I wouldn't recommend going 3 baneling into queen, you are pushing tech too fast and your income will be crap slow. Also keep in mind that massqueen is literally 4x as powerful when you and your lane partner contribute. also if you queens aren't all synced you are wasting your time. If you are attempting to get massqueen going and your lane partner isn't at least competent you will get your ass raped, they have to be able to atleast keep the opponent off of your doorstep during your weak early-midgame until you get going. They should also ideally be mixing something like immortal/tank/thor to help your queens vs big targets. Then again queens could have been nerfed recently, I don't know what stat changes they made. also remember that your income is dependant on your structures....any time you are saving up you are losing money. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
If you're losing the tide you should STOP EVERYTHING! Why are you giving the opponent money as he walks across the map killing all ur stuff instantly? Also the food cap needs to be 100 not 300. If the game goes late it just becomes a massive lagfest at which point I just leave. | ||
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