|
Very cool stuff, i think this could be the start of a new standard for exchanging and testing build orders 
However it would be good to have the timings on every step too, so you can adjust or compete with the target time. Also this could be considered in end screen and points.
And it should be toggable what "column" is showed in the targets window, eg. hiding Target Gas or Game Time (if being implemented)
And i discovered that you can't immediately build a drone after reset for Zerg.
Reason is that the 3 larvas are not there from beginning, but are spawned like from larva inject.
Its not a big deal but i usualy first build a drone and then send workers (as recommended from many players) i wouldnt want to get into a bad habit to make it otherwise 
|
The builds in the current version are very inoptimal and - well - not helpful for a bronze level player to get used to. Please add the builds from Liquipedia II, as they have a strong foundation in tournament-level play. Also makes this map a more tangible option for higher level players training during the beta: while they of course can encode their own timings, ease of access and centralization of builds is probably best.
|
Either when I get to the 7 minute mark or type "-e" in chat, I get a Divide by zero error. Any thoughts on why that is? I'm using version 0.1.5.
|
Try getting 0.1.6 as this is the latest version. If that doesn't fix the problem please PM the OP
|
On June 12 2010 21:55 lfusion wrote:
For the online tool, when you pick XvX, whatever the first race is the second race will be the same. So, you can only set up PvP, ZvZ, and TvT no matter what race you choose for the opponenets race. If you pick ZvT, the scout, harass, and push can only be zerg units, not terran.
When you design a build using the online tool, think of the attack waves like this: "If the computer was using this build, what waves make sense to send to attack the player with?" So that's why if you choose a TvP build for example, the attack waves are Terran.
On June 13 2010 07:14 qsek wrote:Very cool stuff, i think this could be the start of a new standard for exchanging and testing build orders However it would be good to have the timings on every step too, so you can adjust or compete with the target time. And i discovered that you can't immediately build a drone after reset for Zerg. Reason is that the 3 larvas are not there from beginning, but are spawned like from larva inject. Its not a big deal but i usualy first build a drone and then send workers (as recommended from many players) i wouldnt want to get into a bad habit to make it otherwise
Recorded timings will be in the next version
As far as the larvae issue, don't tell anyone, but I am actually using the larva inject ability to create those, which would explain that's why it looks like that. I'll try to figure out an alternate way that doesn't cause a delay.
On June 13 2010 07:52 VelRa_G wrote:
The builds in the current version are very inoptimal and - well - not helpful for a bronze level player to get used to. Please add the builds from Liquipedia II, as they have a strong foundation in tournament-level play. Also makes this map a more tangible option for higher level players training during the beta: while they of course can encode their own timings, ease of access and centralization of builds is probably best.
If anyone is interested in going through the builds on Liquipedia II and making sure they are in the map, please contact me
|
I added about 7 or 8 Terran Builds of Liquipedia II yesterday as good as possible cause most have a build order like "@ xxx gas" and stuff like that so wasnt able to add any supply counts. See other YABOT thread for missing stuff.
|
Suggestion: As YABOT matures, I envision the opponent's single CC/hatch/nexus will be enhanced with an AI that will have workers mining and buildings. This will serve two purposes, both of which are to add realistic challenges to properly practising a BO. The first, to give the opportunity to practice worker harassment (a non-artificial means of multi-tasking training) and second to require more sophisticated scouting by implementing a feature called "Fight the Cheese".
My idea for "Fight the Cheese" is an option where every so often (say 5% of the time) you scout the opponent's base and find it empty, so you need to react by scouting and preparing for cheese. I imagine that coding proxy reapers/zealots/void rays would be possible, while bunker and cannon rushes might be impossible due to AI limitations.
Lastly, I want to thank xorpwnz and everyone else who has contributed to YABOT. It is already such a great tool and the possibilities for improvement seem endless. Thanks again!
|
On June 13 2010 14:30 Absentis wrote:
Suggestion: As YABOT matures, I envision the opponent's single CC/hatch/nexus will be enhanced with an AI that will have workers mining and buildings. This will serve two purposes, both of which are to add realistic challenges to properly practising a BO. The first, to give the opportunity to practice worker harassment (a non-artificial means of multi-tasking training) and second to require more sophisticated scouting by implementing a feature called "Fight the Cheese".
My idea for "Fight the Cheese" is an option where every so often (say 5% of the time) you scout the opponent's base and find it empty, so you need to react by scouting and preparing for cheese. I imagine that coding proxy reapers/zealots/void rays would be possible, while bunker and cannon rushes might be impossible due to AI limitations.
Lastly, I want to thank xorpwnz and everyone else who has contributed to YABOT. It is already such a great tool and the possibilities for improvement seem endless. Thanks again!
I like the fight for cheese idea. Actually we are thinking about splitting up the build orders into classes like they are on Liquipedia II. At least "openers", "transitions", and "cheeses". That way, you can practice an opener, go scout, and depending on what you see the AI doing, you can then choose to follow one of several transition builds. It'll probably be a while before we get to that point though :p
|
On June 13 2010 09:31 xorpwnz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2010 21:55 lfusion wrote:
For the online tool, when you pick XvX, whatever the first race is the second race will be the same. So, you can only set up PvP, ZvZ, and TvT no matter what race you choose for the opponenets race. If you pick ZvT, the scout, harass, and push can only be zerg units, not terran. When you design a build using the online tool, think of the attack waves like this: "If the computer was using this build, what waves make sense to send to attack the player with?" So that's why if you choose a TvP build for example, the attack waves are Terran.
That makes sense, but wouldn't you want to test your build vs the match up it is meant for? Because, for example TvP, terran goes ghost. Wouldn't you want the attack wave to be protoss so you can practice using emp and defending with it. It is not the same sending marines and marauders and trying to defend with a ghost, marines and maruders.
|
On June 13 2010 22:31 lfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 09:31 xorpwnz wrote:On June 12 2010 21:55 lfusion wrote:
For the online tool, when you pick XvX, whatever the first race is the second race will be the same. So, you can only set up PvP, ZvZ, and TvT no matter what race you choose for the opponenets race. If you pick ZvT, the scout, harass, and push can only be zerg units, not terran. When you design a build using the online tool, think of the attack waves like this: "If the computer was using this build, what waves make sense to send to attack the player with?" So that's why if you choose a TvP build for example, the attack waves are Terran. That makes sense, but wouldn't you want to test your build vs the match up it is meant for? Because, for example TvP, terran goes ghost. Wouldn't you want the attack wave to be protoss so you can practice using emp and defending with it. It is not the same sending marines and marauders and trying to defend with a ghost, marines and maruders.
Right, so if you choose a TvP build, then you would choose a Pv_ build for the computer. But when you edit that Pv_ build in the editor, you are setting up the protoss attack waves.
|
My bad, I'm retarded. I assumed it was the other way around.
|
United States12989 Posts
Not sure what you mean by "figuring out how exactly that's happening to you" If as in why its occuring, i have no idea lol. I can describe it more if that helps.
|
I am playing zerg on kulas ravine vs. terran. I die when the 3rd wave comes when I try to do a roach build. The 9 marauders and 12 marines are to much for me to handle. Should I be able to beat it? Or do I just suck. I have beaten them with a zerg baneling combo just not roach. Am I doing something wrong?
|
The third waves are all beatable with pretty much any build, there isn't so much something to point at and go you're doing it wrong. Not all of these builds are optimized, so you may be needing to edit how you're doing your roach play. Try just getting out more units, and not going for roach only to defend the attack.
|
Ive been trying out different push combinations, the medivacs need to be fixed. at the moment they will not stickaround with the marine units i have added to the push, but instead fly to hover over my nexus. which means i do not have an accurate idea of whether my build would be efficient to stop such a push
|
I don't know whether I'm missing something or not but it seems like there's a lot of build orders in YABOT but they aren't accompanied by any or the proper wave settings for when the CPU plays the same build. Also, it seems like you can't go past 14 units per variable in the wave creator (say, to simulate a mass ling rush). Is this a bug or something that just isn't added?
|
On June 15 2010 02:10 Airdraken wrote:
Ive been trying out different push combinations, the medivacs need to be fixed. at the moment they will not stickaround with the marine units i have added to the push, but instead fly to hover over my nexus. which means i do not have an accurate idea of whether my build would be efficient to stop such a push
Fixing issues like this will definitely be a main focus of an upcoming release, but for now the AI is pretty stupid :p
On June 15 2010 03:30 bogglor wrote:
I don't know whether I'm missing something or not but it seems like there's a lot of build orders in YABOT but they aren't accompanied by any or the proper wave settings for when the CPU plays the same build. Also, it seems like you can't go past 14 units per variable in the wave creator (say, to simulate a mass ling rush). Is this a bug or something that just isn't added?
For the pushes, most people have been submitting the build orders without them. I'm trying to organize a group where we will hopefully soon sit down and fill out the pushes properly. And the 14 unit limit is just a limitation during beta. Right now there are no edit boxes that would allow you to type in your own number. As a work around, you can set two attack waves for the same time and do 14 lings + 14 lings + 14 lings for each wave for a total of 84 lings at once
|
Ahhh, excellent. I wasn't sure if it was a bug or not. Some of the builds have the proper waves and some don't so yeah it'll be excellent to see these fleshed out. Hmm, which gets me thinking - is it possible to code up an option for a random push based on race? IE say you select Terran freelance and then choose Zerg "random" to play against. YABOT will then select from its pool of random Zerg BOs / waves for you to play against. Then you really get to practice your build against an unknown strategy. It's one thing to see if you can deliberately prepare for 30 zerglings at 5 minutes but it's another thing to have to prepare for all contingencies in your build, not knowing what you'll be hit with. I think this would be a great feature, if it's doable.
|
On June 15 2010 04:01 bogglor wrote:
Ahhh, excellent. I wasn't sure if it was a bug or not. Some of the builds have the proper waves and some don't so yeah it'll be excellent to see these fleshed out. Hmm, which gets me thinking - is it possible to code up an option for a random push based on race? IE say you select Terran freelance and then choose Zerg "random" to play against. YABOT will then select from its pool of random Zerg BOs / waves for you to play against. Then you really get to practice your build against an unknown strategy. It's one thing to see if you can deliberately prepare for 30 zerglings at 5 minutes but it's another thing to have to prepare for all contingencies in your build, not knowing what you'll be hit with. I think this would be a great feature, if it's doable.
Now why do you have to go and spoil the surprise for the next release? :p I hope to have exactly this working in a few more days. :D
|
On June 15 2010 04:48 xorpwnz wrote:
Now why do you have to go and spoil the surprise for the next release? :p I hope to have exactly this working in a few more days. :D
Oh man! This is great news. :D
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
