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On December 06 2005 17:41 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
I think what twisted is trying to get at is that anyone who found themselves in that position would have done the same thing. Mining minerals to build units to kill your opponent isn't really an innovative new strat in starcraft, nor is it one that requires great skill to execute well. It's still a great rep but that's because it is a mindblowingly close one. It's not everyday you see a 1 hp drone being the key to either victory or defeat and that's amazing in itself, but it doesn't make it a pimp play.
Grrr...'s maelstrom game was pimp because it was an innovative tactic at that level of play and it took considerable skill to execute. A pimp play doesn't have to be centered around new strategies or unique moves, it can be old existing strategies that are used in situations where it should really be impossible to succed, but they win anyway with skill and because they have the balls to do it. (The hallu/arbiter game would be a good example, who the fuck pulls that shit off in a proleauge anyway?)
Or it could just be absolutly incredible micro used to win a figth which should be impossible. (Firebat rep)
Many of the PP have situations where everyone should know what to do. How did the divine wind and others make it under that criteria? Scourge vs. capital ships is a truly mindblowing play. Or how about microing well in an already won game? Or losing the game trying to blind like 8 obs? Those are PP but this can't even be considered? This game did show an incredible amount of skill and micro in getting those last several trips of minerals. If a completely unique game that's completely even, as you said mindblowingly close, for so long and with that amazing micro doesn't have it I don't know what does. 
Even you acknowledge that PP can't be all new undiscovered as yet tactics, and I think this is well above the bar in terms of what games are let in that do not have that innovation. Especially above some of the long PvZs that do not really have a discernable PP moment.
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On December 06 2005 21:42 nova_442 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2005 17:41 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
I think what twisted is trying to get at is that anyone who found themselves in that position would have done the same thing. Mining minerals to build units to kill your opponent isn't really an innovative new strat in starcraft, nor is it one that requires great skill to execute well. It's still a great rep but that's because it is a mindblowingly close one. It's not everyday you see a 1 hp drone being the key to either victory or defeat and that's amazing in itself, but it doesn't make it a pimp play.
Grrr...'s maelstrom game was pimp because it was an innovative tactic at that level of play and it took considerable skill to execute. A pimp play doesn't have to be centered around new strategies or unique moves, it can be old existing strategies that are used in situations where it should really be impossible to succed, but they win anyway with skill and because they have the balls to do it. (The hallu/arbiter game would be a good example, who the fuck pulls that shit off in a proleauge anyway?)
Or it could just be absolutly incredible micro used to win a figth which should be impossible. (Firebat rep) Many of the PP have situations where everyone should know what to do. How did the divine wind and others make it under that criteria? Scourge vs. capital ships is a truly mindblowing play. Or how about microing well in an already won game? Or losing the game trying to blind like 8 obs? Those are PP but this can't even be considered? This game did show an incredible amount of skill and micro in getting those last several trips of minerals. If a completely unique game that's completely even, as you said mindblowingly close, for so long and with that amazing micro doesn't have it I don't know what does. Even you acknowledge that PP can't be all new undiscovered as yet tactics, and I think this is well above the bar in terms of what games are let in that do not have that innovation. Especially above some of the long PvZs that do not really have a discernable PP moment.
Scourge vs battlecruisers can't exactly be viewed as a common strategy (not terribly uncommon either but scourge vs cruiser is infinitly harder than scourge vs carrier, that both are capital ships have nothing to do with it.) and cloning 80 or so of them to arrive at approx the same time takes considerable skill.
Succesfully blinding 6 obs with medics shows some huge balls and incredible skill, it's definently pimp. Sure, it didn't win him that game but it has won him other games in the past.
But seriously, keeping a drone alive vs two probes when you have nothing else to focus on is not extraordinary skill even though it migth be a bit hard if you try to mine at the time. Using the drone to mine minerals so you can build units is not an innovative new use of a unit, and neither is it an unusual tactic used with extraordinary skill.
It migth be a pimp game, but it's not a pimp play.
Also, there doesn't have to be a pimp moment in a game, the entire play can be pimp in itself.
As I see it there are really 3 types of pimp plays:
1) Use of such incredible micro in winning a figth that you go "ohh!" when you see it.
2) Innovative (or semi innovative use that requires extreme skills and huge balls) use of a unit or it's ability in a special situation.
3) Overall extraordinary play througout a game with either a different strategy than normal (incredible use of d-web through a game) or just mind blowing micro through a game. One mudang storm killing the entire zerg army migth not be a pimp play, but say the toss is far behind and does a comeback by decimating the zerg army with incredible storm use, not once but several times in a game? That's naturally a pimpest play.
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Good point from nova and cuddly to be fair...
I just think it's a funny game, nothing pimp (although my drone would have died 10 minutes before the other guy)
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Norway28761 Posts
the game is fucking awesome but there's nothing PIMP about anything either player did.
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I dunno... I think it's pretty pimp to be able to mine 20+ minerals while you have two probes trying to kill you all game... I mean mining when you take 10 damage a second when probes are on you is hard.
It's like saying that ZvZ with lings vs muta isn't pimp cuz zerg guy did the obvious -_- keep his lings alive and split the muta up.
I think execution is just as important as the strategic aspect in a PP... my 20 cents. X10 yours
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It was an amazing game. But as everyone is saying, there was nothing pimp about it. What would've made it pimp would be if somehow, with amazing shortcut micro, the probes were able to get the drone while it was coming back with the minerals. Amazing anyways.
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Norway28761 Posts
sure the execution was good and execution can be pimp, but it definitely wasn't good enough to be pimp. I mean, last year a pimp execution move was oov's marine spread. yeah moving 2 probes around for 15 minutes sure is comparable to that.. ;(
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That was fucking hilarious. Major props for incredible micro.
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Liquid`Drone wrote:
the game is fucking awesome but there's nothing PIMP about anything either player did.
EvilTeletubby wrote:
Yeah, this was an awesome game, but not PP material.
Twisted wrote:
I don't see why this is a pimpest play.. :/
it's just a really really really close game, that's not 'pimp' at all
anyone could've mined those 8 minerals and won the game
when a game is 'pimp' it has to involve a great move which won someone the game
Bah...
I think u need to get yourselves a "back to the earth"'s thing (don't know its equivalent in english so scuse me).
For me it could be at least in the 20s place of the PP, because when you're in a situation like this, the only moment u can think is when the drone go straigh in the opposite of the probe. This guy has though thought to delay probes with the obstacles he found. I don't think MANY of you would think of doing this move.
U know, it's a similar kirhoff's game called "illusion" i don't remember, it's been a long time i've not seen this rep ;p. Ok less good but still i think it deserves a PP except if you find 20 better PP.
Remember it's just me.
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i can guarantee you that most players will try to delay the probes with the obstacles on the map. It's not exactly a unique thought that popped into the zerg's head while he was playing this game
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I'm a little late but that game was fucking nuts ;D Loved the Zerg's style, haven't seen that kind of build order in a while
Reminds me of Niza ;P
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On December 18 2005 15:07 Bobo_XIII wrote:
I'm a little late but that game was fucking nuts ;D Loved the Zerg's style, haven't seen that kind of build order in a while
Reminds me of Niza ;P
Bleh I've done that couple of times, rush in and kill his nexus, only problem is, P get's enraged and run me over no competition 
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imho closest opinion was "pimp game, but not pimp play"..don't think that the micro was incredible, rather whole situation was incredible..
still, it's really worth both awarding, and watching
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EPT
