|
On June 05 2009 13:28 Avidkeystamper wrote:
I don't know if you've seen their games but Jaedong is on par or better than Bisu this month. You can quote stats, win loss ratio, and get in a rut over a game, but their overall performance this month is what determines the rankings. And by performance, I mean in game performance, not the TLPD page.
Erm, why are you ranking the top two players by their overall win ratio/ games won for the entire proleague season? That discounts a lot of important variables.
Yes, i'm relying on statistics, but you said that jaedong is slightly ahead of bisu. Since they are on par, I am relying on statistics to say that bisu is slightly ahead of jaedong. The part where you say jaedong is better than bisu is totally being a oz fanboy. And let me tell you, I'm not a bisu fanboy but a khan toss fanboy. So I'm probably looking at this more objectively than you r.
|
Probably, but Jaedong has played and won more games. I guess that means nothing? Even when he took Leta in a straight-up game that wasn't close after 10 minutes in one of his good matchup. I guess I'm just giving Jaedong BoTD since he has dominated more frequently. I guess you're right, they're dominating the same and their level of gameplay is shockingly close, but I would give the nod to Jaedong simply because he has demonstrated that level of gameplay more often.
|
On June 05 2009 14:44 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2009 13:28 Avidkeystamper wrote:
I don't know if you've seen their games but Jaedong is on par or better than Bisu this month. You can quote stats, win loss ratio, and get in a rut over a game, but their overall performance this month is what determines the rankings. And by performance, I mean in game performance, not the TLPD page.
Erm, why are you ranking the top two players by their overall win ratio/ games won for the entire proleague season? That discounts a lot of important variables. Yes, i'm relying on statistics, but you said that jaedong is slightly ahead of bisu. Since they are on par, I am relying on statistics to say that bisu is slightly ahead of jaedong. The part where you say jaedong is better than bisu is totally being a oz fanboy. And let me tell you, I'm not a bisu fanboy but a khan toss fanboy. So I'm probably looking at this more objectively than you r.
Uhhh, don't statistics show that Jaedong is ahead for this PR? Both lost 1 game, but Jaedong has won more games than Bisu. Also, Bisu's loss was a PL game that probably cost his team the match, while Jaedong's loss was 1 game in a Bo3 that he ended up winning.
Oh lookie, I have a Khan icon too.
|
On June 05 2009 13:28 Avidkeystamper wrote:
I don't know if you've seen their games but Jaedong is on par or better than Bisu this month. You can quote stats, win loss ratio, and get in a rut over a game, but their overall performance this month is what determines the rankings. And by performance, I mean in game performance, not the TLPD page.
Erm, why are you ranking the top two players by their overall win ratio/ games won for the entire proleague season? That discounts a lot of important variables.
What?
More games won is the only thing that separates them. Bisu`s in game performance have been just as good as Jaedongs. However Jaedong have played and won more games the last month and that should give him the benefit of doubt of who deserves the #1 rank since they are both in pretty much god mode nowadays laying waste to everyone who opposes them. Also Jaedong have to be given some credit for performing so well with his much larger workload.
The last game Bisu`s play was not top notch was vs Great where he lost obsers unnecessary when he was trying to break the contain causing him to halt the attack over and over. His play vs both Keke and Violet was very good regardless what some people here at TL might think.
|
|
|
It was typed after I had started making my post. (I am slow at making posts)
No worries then!
|
On June 05 2009 11:16 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2009 20:10 Shikyo wrote:If Violet isn't on the PR, my head is going to explode. ^_^ On June 04 2009 17:31 Jaeden wrote:
ohh come on, if JD didnt play in gom his record would be 5-0 , with no lose to a noname. Gom counts as a minus to him not as a plus, so stop that. Did you know that it makes NO difference at all whether you win a series 3-2 or 3-0. It just looks prettier and you might argue it's more dominant, but JD has always been losing the first games of a series. He's came back from behind to win most of the BOx wins he's had, if I recall correctly. of course it matters if you win 3-0 or 3-2, or 2-1 over 2-0. If you beat Bisu 3-2, then good job. If you 3-0 him, WOW. If you 2-1 against Jangbi, ok. If you 2-1 against jjonga, wtf? Guess who went 2-1 againts jjonga...S class players should not be dropping those games.
Of course, but if it's JD 2-1 vs some noobie, you can't really call it poor performance since it's JD. The result is completely the same. In the end it doesn't matter. At all.
E: What I'm saying is, if JD goes 3-2 3-2 3-2, he still did better than if, say, Bisu did 3-0, 3-0, 2-3, even if JD lost a lot more games in total. In BoX's it really doesn't matter by how much you win, it only affects record and statistics, but 3-0 gets no extra benefit over 3-2.
|
On June 05 2009 15:12 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Probably, but Jaedong has played and won more games. I guess that means nothing? Even when he took Leta in a straight-up game that wasn't close after 10 minutes in one of his good matchup. I guess I'm just giving Jaedong BoTD since he has dominated more frequently. I guess you're right, they're dominating the same and their level of gameplay is shockingly close, but I would give the nod to Jaedong simply because he has demonstrated that level of gameplay more often.
If Bisu's play hasn't slacked off since that last Power Rank, shouldn't the defending #1 be given the benefit of the doubt in a situation like this?
I remember in a PR after Incruit OSL, one of the reasons people were saying Stork should remain #1 over Bisu, was that Stork was defending #1 from the previous month, and his play hadn't dropped off as of then.
|
On June 05 2009 15:35 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2009 11:16 Dazed_Spy wrote:On June 04 2009 20:10 Shikyo wrote:If Violet isn't on the PR, my head is going to explode. ^_^ On June 04 2009 17:31 Jaeden wrote:
ohh come on, if JD didnt play in gom his record would be 5-0 , with no lose to a noname. Gom counts as a minus to him not as a plus, so stop that. Did you know that it makes NO difference at all whether you win a series 3-2 or 3-0. It just looks prettier and you might argue it's more dominant, but JD has always been losing the first games of a series. He's came back from behind to win most of the BOx wins he's had, if I recall correctly. of course it matters if you win 3-0 or 3-2, or 2-1 over 2-0. If you beat Bisu 3-2, then good job. If you 3-0 him, WOW. If you 2-1 against Jangbi, ok. If you 2-1 against jjonga, wtf? Guess who went 2-1 againts jjonga...S class players should not be dropping those games. Of course, but if it's JD 2-1 vs some noobie, you can't really call it poor performance since it's JD. The result is completely the same. In the end it doesn't matter. At all. E: What I'm saying is, if JD goes 3-2 3-2 3-2, he still did better than if, say, Bisu did 3-0, 3-0, 2-3, even if JD lost a lot more games in total. In BoX's it really doesn't matter by how much you win, it only affects record and statistics, but 3-0 gets no extra benefit over 3-2.
there is no benefit in terms of tournament progression... but for the purposes of the power rank where a single loss can tip you from 1st place to 3rd, it does.
3-0 shows u totally dominated ur opponent, whereas 3-2 shows that you just handled the pressure situation better at the end.
Its like if federer wins a major without dropping a single set, people would say that he cruised through it, total rape.. but if the games went to 5 sets nearly every game, then its not as dominating.
|
On June 05 2009 15:52 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2009 15:12 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Probably, but Jaedong has played and won more games. I guess that means nothing? Even when he took Leta in a straight-up game that wasn't close after 10 minutes in one of his good matchup. I guess I'm just giving Jaedong BoTD since he has dominated more frequently. I guess you're right, they're dominating the same and their level of gameplay is shockingly close, but I would give the nod to Jaedong simply because he has demonstrated that level of gameplay more often. If Bisu's play hasn't slacked off since that last Power Rank, shouldn't the defending #1 be given the benefit of the doubt in a situation like this? I remember in a PR after Incruit OSL, one of the reasons people were saying Stork should remain #1 over Bisu, was that Stork was defending #1 from the previous month, and his play hadn't dropped off as of then.
New writer, new rules.
|
On June 05 2009 16:32 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2009 15:52 Sentenal wrote:On June 05 2009 15:12 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Probably, but Jaedong has played and won more games. I guess that means nothing? Even when he took Leta in a straight-up game that wasn't close after 10 minutes in one of his good matchup. I guess I'm just giving Jaedong BoTD since he has dominated more frequently. I guess you're right, they're dominating the same and their level of gameplay is shockingly close, but I would give the nod to Jaedong simply because he has demonstrated that level of gameplay more often. If Bisu's play hasn't slacked off since that last Power Rank, shouldn't the defending #1 be given the benefit of the doubt in a situation like this? I remember in a PR after Incruit OSL, one of the reasons people were saying Stork should remain #1 over Bisu, was that Stork was defending #1 from the previous month, and his play hadn't dropped off as of then. New writer, new rules.
Okay... Are you saying the JWD makes the Power Rank the same way as you would or something? You said that you think that Jaedong should be given the benefit of the doubt, due to an increased workload. I simply asked why should the benefit of the doubt not be given to the defending #1, when his play hasn't dropped off any.
|
On June 05 2009 17:17 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2009 16:32 Avidkeystamper wrote:On June 05 2009 15:52 Sentenal wrote:On June 05 2009 15:12 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Probably, but Jaedong has played and won more games. I guess that means nothing? Even when he took Leta in a straight-up game that wasn't close after 10 minutes in one of his good matchup. I guess I'm just giving Jaedong BoTD since he has dominated more frequently. I guess you're right, they're dominating the same and their level of gameplay is shockingly close, but I would give the nod to Jaedong simply because he has demonstrated that level of gameplay more often. If Bisu's play hasn't slacked off since that last Power Rank, shouldn't the defending #1 be given the benefit of the doubt in a situation like this? I remember in a PR after Incruit OSL, one of the reasons people were saying Stork should remain #1 over Bisu, was that Stork was defending #1 from the previous month, and his play hadn't dropped off as of then. New writer, new rules. Okay... Are you saying the JWD makes the Power Rank the same way as you would or something? You said that you think that Jaedong should be given the benefit of the doubt, due to an increased workload. I simply asked why should the benefit of the doubt not be given to the defending #1, when his play hasn't dropped off any.
Look at this month's PR, JD shouldve stayed at no1-2 and shouldve been given the benefit of the doubt here too, but he did not get it.
|
On June 05 2009 15:12 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Probably, but Jaedong has played and won more games. I guess that means nothing? Even when he took Leta in a straight-up game that wasn't close after 10 minutes in one of his good matchup. I guess I'm just giving Jaedong BoTD since he has dominated more frequently. I guess you're right, they're dominating the same and their level of gameplay is shockingly close, but I would give the nod to Jaedong simply because he has demonstrated that level of gameplay more often.
True that jaedong has played and won more games, but he also played and lost more games. But I'll agree with you that they're about the same, who is better will depend on opinion. I'll be darned if they arn't 1 2 in the PR, but bisu will probably get the 1st place because jwd is a skt fanboy (thezerg).
|
On June 05 2009 17:44 samachking wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2009 17:17 Sentenal wrote:On June 05 2009 16:32 Avidkeystamper wrote:On June 05 2009 15:52 Sentenal wrote:On June 05 2009 15:12 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Probably, but Jaedong has played and won more games. I guess that means nothing? Even when he took Leta in a straight-up game that wasn't close after 10 minutes in one of his good matchup. I guess I'm just giving Jaedong BoTD since he has dominated more frequently. I guess you're right, they're dominating the same and their level of gameplay is shockingly close, but I would give the nod to Jaedong simply because he has demonstrated that level of gameplay more often. If Bisu's play hasn't slacked off since that last Power Rank, shouldn't the defending #1 be given the benefit of the doubt in a situation like this? I remember in a PR after Incruit OSL, one of the reasons people were saying Stork should remain #1 over Bisu, was that Stork was defending #1 from the previous month, and his play hadn't dropped off as of then. New writer, new rules. Okay... Are you saying the JWD makes the Power Rank the same way as you would or something? You said that you think that Jaedong should be given the benefit of the doubt, due to an increased workload. I simply asked why should the benefit of the doubt not be given to the defending #1, when his play hasn't dropped off any. Look at this month's PR, JD shouldve stayed at no1-2 and shouldve been given the benefit of the doubt here too, but he did not get it.
I don't think he should have dropped to #4, but Jaedong did go 10-5 during the period between the end of Batoo and that power rank. Enough for any sensible person to not keep him at #1. In this case, I'm arguing that Bisu's performance hasn't dropped off any since last month, enough to make him fall. Therefore he should be given the benefit of the doubt in a close situation like this. Between the April and May Power Rank, Jaedong's performance clearly dropped off enough to make him fall, and that's why he dropped.
|
Gotta love those 67% win rate slumps.
|
On June 05 2009 18:38 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Gotta love those 67% win rate slumps.
God I hate Jaedong fanboys who say shit like that. Jaedong went 10-5 during that time period. Bisu went 9-1. Fantasy went 7-2. Not only did they have the better record, but they were playing better than Jaedong too! Why the hell should Jaedong have stayed at #1 when he clearly wasn't playing as good as those two, at that time? Thats why he fell in the ranks.
The circumstances that caused Jaedong to fall last month, would be completely different than what might cause Bisu to fall this month. There was no close call between Jaedong/Bisu/Fantasy last month. There is a close call this month.
|
I'm far from a Jaedong fanboy. Just pointing out how crazy expectations of jaedong are when, directly after winning an OSL and maintaining a win rate equivalent to his regular, he still gets dropped to fourth and placed as second best zerg.
Jesus. I didn't even want Jaedong at number one you overreacting jerk.
|
In the end, both JD and Bisu are worthy choices and as long as they are #1 and #2 it will be alright. I actually don't care too much if one of them has 10-1 and the other one has 8-1... it really just shows that they are both awesome. Gameplay-wise I am normally more impressed with JD but sometimes he loses games because of really stupid mistakes or stubborness. Bisu on the other hand is rock solid and does nearly never make really big mistakes which cost him games. Eventually he just rolls over his opponents in the end since he is the superior player not because he creates big advantages early game. His PL-winrate is just so sick.
At least that is my opinion. If they meet in PL ace match, then the choice will be easy I guess.
|
I would soo love to se more Jaedong vs Bisu. They both deserve no1 imo
|
I am a Flash fan, and don't really have a preference between Bisu and JD. I have also watched every game from both Bisu and Jaedong in the past month. It seems strange that there is any question who should be #1: Jaedong. They have performed similarly stats wise, but Jaedong's play has been much much better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
