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Power Rank 05/15/2009 - Page 19
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seppolevne
Canada1681 Posts
Nice list! | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
On May 18 2009 05:11 Nylan wrote: JWD, awesome power rank  This thread demonstrates nothing but the number of Jaedong fanboys. Stork, JangBi, and Luxury (who WON AN MSL) are all completely gone and no one is complaining, but JD is 1 or 2 spots different on a very close scale and everyone is up in arms! Double standard, methinks. Lux got knocked out of OSL by Go.Go. Go.Go. Lux's play lately speaks for itself. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On May 18 2009 05:11 Nylan wrote: JWD, awesome power rank This thread demonstrates nothing but the number of Jaedong fanboys. Stork, JangBi, and Luxury (who WON AN MSL) are all completely gone and no one is complaining, but JD is 1 or 2 spots different on a very close scale and everyone is up in arms! Double standard, methinks. Stork is 4-4 since the last PR, including being knocked out of GOM by -MVP-, of all people. JangBi is losing matchups against inexperienced players in the match he's renowned for, and is 2-8 in his last 10. Luxury is a similarly dismal 3-7, with highlights of his recent performance including consecutive losses to KILLING HIS OWN ZERGLINGS. Compare those 3 to a player who remains in GOM, OSL and (after a worrisome first game) MSL, going 6-5 between 4/11 and 5/12, before qualifying 2-1 out of his MSL group the night this PR was written. It's not quite the same, though I can definitely understand why you'd put him below Bisu and maybe, due to fanboyism, Fantasy. ZerO though? I really can't see it, even if it is through a mind that would put TheZerg 10th over players who mattered more to their teams' successes and had better records. | ||
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Exteray
United States1094 Posts
On May 15 2009 12:28 FranzF1 wrote: disagree with all... -.- Bisu First its ok, but fantasy number 2??? look at JD and Fantasy last 10 games... imo: 1 bisu 2 jd (close to bisu) 3 fantasy 4 zero 5 effort 6 leta 7 flash 8 skyhigh 9 dnt know I agree with your top 3. 4. Effort 5. Flash 6. Zero etc. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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latent
United States428 Posts
The other weird thing is putting thezerg at 10. Great's proxy hatchery build on Neo Medusa was just as "innovative" and "courageous" as anything Fantasy's done recently, and certainly better than anything thezerg's done. Who cares what team thezerg is on? Talking about someone's "mental toughness" is as laughable as an amateur bystander talking about "locker room leadership" on a professional sports team. How would he know how much "mental toughness" a player has when all he ever sees of them is their live tv matches? BTW, as an aside, whoever said JD is favored against anyone in a Bo5, I think Bisu would actually be favored, especially with the way he's been playing against zergs lately. Bisu has taken a race that has historically been trampled in SC rankings and absolutely dominated with it. From a pure talent standpoint I think he has the most. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On May 18 2009 06:38 latent wrote: The only laughable thing about this PR is JWD's stubborn unwillingness to admit he made a mistake. He even went so far as to say Zero would take 2 in a Bo5 against Jaedong, demonstrating a particular bias against Jaedong and/or for Zero, who lost 0-3 to Luxury and wouldn't stand a chance against JD. Heck, I don't even like JD that much, but reality is reality. The other weird thing is putting thezerg at 10. Great's proxy hatchery build on Neo Medusa was just as "innovative" and "courageous" as anything Fantasy's done recently, and certainly better than anything thezerg's done. Who cares what team thezerg is on? Talking about someone's "mental toughness" is as laughable as an amateur bystander talking about "locker room leadership" on a professional sports team. How would he know how much "mental toughness" a player has when all he ever sees of them is their live tv matches? BTW, as an aside, whoever said JD is favored against anyone in a Bo5, I think Bisu would actually be favored, especially with the way he's been playing against zergs lately. Bisu has taken a race that has historically been trampled in SC rankings and absolutely dominated with it. From a pure talent standpoint I think he has the most. This was the same situation when they had their GOM showmatch, and for all intents and purposes, that was a tie. While Jaedong's ZvP may not be as consistent as July's, it fares much better against Bisu than July's does. On May 18 2009 05:11 Nylan wrote: JWD, awesome power rank This thread demonstrates nothing but the number of Jaedong fanboys. Stork, JangBi, and Luxury (who WON AN MSL) are all completely gone and no one is complaining, but JD is 1 or 2 spots different on a very close scale and everyone is up in arms! Double standard, methinks. You didn't even use the term double standard correctly. -.- | ||
disciple
9071 Posts
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erin[go]bragh
United States815 Posts
On May 18 2009 06:38 latent wrote: The only laughable thing about this PR is JWD's stubborn unwillingness to admit he made a mistake. He even went so far as to say Zero would take 2 in a Bo5 against Jaedong, demonstrating a particular bias against Jaedong and/or for Zero, who lost 0-3 to Luxury and wouldn't stand a chance against JD. Heck, I don't even like JD that much, but reality is reality. The other weird thing is putting thezerg at 10. Great's proxy hatchery build on Neo Medusa was just as "innovative" and "courageous" as anything Fantasy's done recently, and certainly better than anything thezerg's done. Who cares what team thezerg is on? Talking about someone's "mental toughness" is as laughable as an amateur bystander talking about "locker room leadership" on a professional sports team. How would he know how much "mental toughness" a player has when all he ever sees of them is their live tv matches? BTW, as an aside, whoever said JD is favored against anyone in a Bo5, I think Bisu would actually be favored, especially with the way he's been playing against zergs lately. Bisu has taken a race that has historically been trampled in SC rankings and absolutely dominated with it. From a pure talent standpoint I think he has the most. I don't think JWD has to admit to making a "mistake" because he didn't. Ranking Zero above JD is his opinion, and it's based off of who he felt performed better within the recent month. It's his power rank, and I'm sure you have yours. And please don't speak in such a demeaning manner to JWD. He's been facing page after page of people arguing about the exact same thing over and over and he's been more than willing to debate and discuss, and has kept a cool head despite hordes of ravenous JD fans attacking something that, in the end, is just some guys educated opinion. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On May 18 2009 06:38 latent wrote: The only laughable thing about this PR is JWD's stubborn unwillingness to admit he made a mistake. He even went so far as to say Zero would take 2 in a Bo5 against Jaedong, demonstrating a particular bias against Jaedong and/or for Zero, who lost 0-3 to Luxury and wouldn't stand a chance against JD. Heck, I don't even like JD that much, but reality is reality. The other weird thing is putting thezerg at 10. Great's proxy hatchery build on Neo Medusa was just as "innovative" and "courageous" as anything Fantasy's done recently, and certainly better than anything thezerg's done. Who cares what team thezerg is on? Talking about someone's "mental toughness" is as laughable as an amateur bystander talking about "locker room leadership" on a professional sports team. How would he know how much "mental toughness" a player has when all he ever sees of them is their live tv matches? As previous noted, JWD's opinion is his opinion. There is no mistake in this power rank. There can only be debate about how others would put the rank differently. I know you probably are too busy number crunching to actually watch games and consider this kind of thing, but there have been many a series in the history of SC that prove how valuable the 'mental toughness' you are scoffing at really is. The most recent series that showcases this very well is BeSt vs July, when July completely dominated his inexperienced opponent through the metagame. Drop your superior attitude. You know so much less than you think you do, so stop pretending you are so much better than JWD. He is very qualified for this, why otherwise would the staff of TL even let him near the PR. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
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Exteray
United States1094 Posts
On May 18 2009 08:17 Fontong wrote: As previous noted, JWD's opinion is his opinion. There is no mistake in this power rank. There can only be debate about how others would put the rank differently. I know you probably are too busy number crunching to actually watch games and consider this kind of thing, but there have been many a series in the history of SC that prove how valuable the 'mental toughness' you are scoffing at really is. The most recent series that showcases this very well is BeSt vs July, when July completely dominated his inexperienced opponent through the metagame. Drop your superior attitude. You know so much less than you think you do, so stop pretending you are so much better than JWD. He is very qualified for this, why otherwise would the staff of TL even let him near the PR. Well said Fontong. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
of becoming the first Zerg to lose a game on Battle Royal | ||
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stroggos
New Zealand1543 Posts
On May 18 2009 07:29 disciple wrote: I still cant believe that Luxury won the MSL... think about who he had to play to win it... Not the best players. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
There's one new issue that the last few pages of comments have raised that I've meant to address but haven't had the time...so here goes. In response to my prediction that a ZerO-JD best-of-five would probably end 3>2 in favor of JD, multiple posters have said that there's no way ZerO would stand a chance given his 0-3 loss to Luxury in LS MSL. I'm totally aware of that series, but I don't think it's nearly as significant as you guys do. First, it was played during a period when Luxury was playing the best StarCraft of his career. He was on a huge high after beating Hwasin and Leta relatively easy and without having to compromise his style whatsoever. Also things were coming together for him and KTF in WL. Luxury was a beastly opponent in LS MSL, especially in ZvZ. This point takes a bit of the wind out of the sails of the "JD>Lux and Lux>ZerO, therefore JD>ZerO" argument (again not talking about PR here, just a Bo5 series). Second, and much more crucially, ZerO was just not himself in that series. He played nowhere near as well as he had against Savior in the Ro8 or Yarnc in the Ro16...he played without any confidence or poise. This is a weakness which plagued him tons earlier in his career, but a weakness which, despite the recency of his loss to Luxury, I think he's finally rid himself of. With a deep SL run under his belt and such a monstrous April-May run, ZerO's nerves are looking better and better. Basically, the point is this: were ZerO to play JD today, he would be able to handle pressure much better than he did against Luxury. Third, ZerO's ZvZ is simply getting better and better by the day - and his recent wins in PL prove it. It's silly to imply that ZerO would play as well against JD today as he did against Lux a month ago, because ZerO is a different (better) player than he was a month ago. Especially in ZvZ. | ||
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
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disciple
9071 Posts
On May 18 2009 09:30 ZidaneTribal wrote: i think losing on a 7-0 ZvT map might make us all reconsider zero's position as #3. just dont think zero is well balanced enough to deserve such a high ranking ![[image loading]](http://msp276.photobucket.com/albums/kk35/Mitrofang/fuck_yeah.gif) | ||
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Nylan
United States795 Posts
On May 18 2009 09:30 ZidaneTribal wrote: i think losing on a 7-0 ZvT map might make us all reconsider zero's position as #3. just dont think zero is well balanced enough to deserve such a high ranking Stupid for three reasons: 1 - Not part of the time period involved in the power rank, so the game should not even be part of the equation 2 - Using a single game to reconsider a PR spot is kinda stupid 3 - You don't "re-consider" PR. It is the law. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On May 18 2009 09:42 Nylan wrote: How a player performs immediately before and after a time period is a strong indication of how good a player is during that time period.Stupid for three reasons: 1 - Not part of the time period involved in the power rank, so the game should not even be part of the equation 2 - Using a single game to reconsider a PR spot is kinda stupid 3 - You don't "re-consider" PR. It is the law. whatever you say Anyway, if PR is to be a ranking of performances in a particular month, then OK, maybe zero deserved his spot. There also would be no need for human involvement in the PR at all: a computer could calculate the spots via Elo-performance (actually I wonder what kind of list that would have led to). It also would be a rather meaningless list, since anything can happen over such a short period. If it is to be an estimate of who the top 10 players are at a particular time, it seems pretty relevant that the so-called "3rd in the world" and best Zerg, loses to a Terran (in a fairly badly-played game on the Zerg's part) mere days after his coronation. | ||
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