• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:17
CEST 04:17
KST 11:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Soulkey on ASL S20 A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1655 users

Power Rank 04/10/2009 - Page 4

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 22 23 24 Next All
Mooncat
Profile Joined October 2007
Germany1228 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-10 13:43:34
April 10 2009 13:42 GMT
#61
Wtf? NaDa on 10?
Don't get me wrong, I love NaDa as much as the next person but to put him on rank 10 for ONE World Class Series? I don't know about that...

I also think that Luxury doesn't quite deserve to be on 2. Especially in direct comparison with fantasy, which some guy above me already did. Best ZvP on earth? I highly highly doubt that. The series against JangBi surely wasn't enough to convince me. Imo it was as much JangBi losing as Luxury winning. And if you can overlook inconsistency as you do it in Luxury's case, then MJY still has the best ZvP on earth(=>AllStar Race Battle)

About Luxury playing "nothing like S-Class" against Leta I can only say that for me and many other people the series has nothing but shown that Luxury isn't able to take straight up games from an A/S-Class Terran. Don't get me wrong. The series was a testimony to his qualities as a player, like nerves, cheesy play and unorthodox strategies. But if I remember correctly he hasn't taken ONE straight up game from Leta in that series, which is mandatory imo if you want to be called S-Class.

I quite agree with the rest of the power rank though. Good job.
"[Lee Young Ho] With this victory, you’ve risen to Bonjwa status."
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-10 14:55:14
April 10 2009 14:33 GMT
#62
I feel like fantasy 3-0 bisu should have propelled him up to 3rd place. But, your explanation is sufficient I suppose, even though fantasy did almost beat jaedong in the osl finals. Also, I would put skyhigh above hero. He took CJ to a victory over hwaseung and he did it against jaedong, against a toss on a toss favored map and against hiya in a match that he nearly lost. Skyhigh was absolutely excellent in the last proleague and his reverse all-kill alone should have cemented a higher spot for him, considering that it was the finals.
Sullifam
Ozarugold
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
2716 Posts
April 10 2009 14:51 GMT
#63
Yay Jaedong! Number one again at last!
this is my quote.
Terranist
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2496 Posts
April 10 2009 15:09 GMT
#64
glad to see skyhigh getting some recognition after that epic reverse AK
The Show of a Lifetime
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
April 10 2009 15:52 GMT
#65
Great to see Jaedong on his #1 spot as he deserves

One thing I disagree is when you said Luxury's ZvP > Jaedong's ZvP

Luxury is known to have weak ZvP. He makes up for this fact by going all-in strategies alot more often than Jaedong has. Hydra break, 5 pool, cheese? Yes.

The ONLY Zerg who can be said to have better ZvP than Jaedong is maybe July. Luxury doesn't even come close. Beating Jangbi's PvZ is not that great of a deal
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5460 Posts
April 10 2009 16:01 GMT
#66
oh flash, how far you've dropped. and to the "dragons" not present in the power ranks anymore - shame on you guys.

thanks fakesteve.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5724 Posts
April 10 2009 16:03 GMT
#67
i wonder if there should be an anti power rank. like.. for those who are slumping
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
April 10 2009 16:07 GMT
#68
On April 11 2009 01:03 29 fps wrote:
i wonder if there should be an anti power rank. like.. for those who are slumping

Rofl that'd be awesome I'd write it. I love bashing on Savior when it's justified by his play.

Is anyone else interested in this? I would devote the time to watch games and etc. if you are.
Peace~
QQplay
Profile Joined February 2009
United States229 Posts
April 10 2009 16:38 GMT
#69
YEAHHH JAEDONG AND LUXURY!!! I knew that Jaedong would be #1 at the Power Rank after his all kill and streak (I was assured when he won the OSL). Luxury would be at 2nd once he raped Jangbi at the MSL. Woot, season of the Zerg!
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8121 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-10 16:40:02
April 10 2009 16:38 GMT
#70
pretty good power rank, pretty much agree with everything except for lux having best ZvP. July and Jaedong both have better ZvP IMO.


Sure Lux didn't have to only play s-class players in the MSL, but how often does someone actually have to do that?(I can only think of forgg beating JD and flash in arena MSL) Plus he did beat both leta and jangbi, how many players can do that?
Free Palestine
foeffa
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Belgium2115 Posts
April 10 2009 16:46 GMT
#71
Nice PR. <3 by.hero and fantasy. ^^
觀過斯知仁矣.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
April 10 2009 16:57 GMT
#72
To everyone complaining about Lux "cheesing," my question to you is: really?

The game is not based on how you win -- it's great to have a super long drawn out lategame brawl, but when it comes down to "best player," it doesn't matter how much you like how they play. It's like complaining that Jaedong likes 2hatch muta too much and shouldn't be first for winning the OSL with it, IE: Retarded. Of course he should be first for winning the OSL and his overall performance, regardless of how much you like his playstyle.

Luxury is aggressive, and some people don't like that. They may prefer good muta control, or maybe a game where dark swarm is the deciding factor, but these are trivial preferences, not criteria for how powerful a player is on the current scene.

Aggressiveness, even bordering overly cheesey, doesn't mean shit about whether or not he is a top player. Flash was called the goddamn cheddar terran, but it didn't matter because he absolutely wrecked anyone in his path with that style for quite some time. Luxury is aggressive, maybe even a cheddar zerg, but he is good. Damn good. As a matter of fact, second only to Jaedong (The closest thing we will ever get to a bonjwa in modern times), even though he plays entirely different.

To put it simply, if he was second best and played the way you guys wanted (most likely like Jaedong, since everyone loves Jaedong games) he would just be called Jaedong-Lite. Instead, he's goddamn Luxury. Streaky, aggressive, entertaining, but overall, damn, damn, damn good, and one of the only two zergs I would call S-Class right now.
Remember Violet.
Niton
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2395 Posts
April 10 2009 17:14 GMT
#73
On April 10 2009 22:42 Mooncat wrote:
Wtf? NaDa on 10?
Don't get me wrong, I love NaDa as much as the next person but to put him on rank 10 for ONE World Class Series? I don't know about that...


A big, big part of that is that his 'world class series' came in April 2009. His first tournament win came in June 2002, and his first game played was in February 2002. Depending how you look at it, he's been playing competitive SC for either slightly over or slightly under seven years. That he's able to continue to play and even defeat the best players in their given matchups so far after entering the scene is a testament to itself, and I totally agree with the reasoning for the 10-spot in a somewhat quiet month.

That's a bit of a wall o' text, but <3 NaDa. Thanks for the PR, FakeSteve!
tree.hugger: Coming off of [(T)fantasy v. (T)Really] into [(T)Barracks v. (T)MVP] is like coming out of Manhattan into New Jersey. You just have to speed up and ignore it.
LunarDestiny
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States4177 Posts
April 10 2009 17:18 GMT
#74
Luxury: current best ZvP?

July is a much better PvZ player and so is Jaedong.

If you want some minor ZvP detail (though that is only an indication not a prove),
July's ZvP: 2215.
Jaedong's ZvP: 2208
Luxury's ZvP: 2113

Other ZvP stats (last ZvP and all time ZvP)
July's last 10 ZvP: 8-2 (all time 68.6%)
Jaedong's last 10 ZvP: 6-4 (all time 65.31%)
Luxury's last 10 ZvP: 7-3 (all time 58.82%)

Sorry guys, I still doubt Savior until he builds FBH a sunken heart...
jnheart35
Profile Joined February 2009
United States178 Posts
April 10 2009 17:27 GMT
#75
On April 11 2009 00:52 AzureEye wrote:
Great to see Jaedong on his #1 spot as he deserves

One thing I disagree is when you said Luxury's ZvP > Jaedong's ZvP

Luxury is known to have weak ZvP. He makes up for this fact by going all-in strategies alot more often than Jaedong has. Hydra break, 5 pool, cheese? Yes.

The ONLY Zerg who can be said to have better ZvP than Jaedong is maybe July. Luxury doesn't even come close. Beating Jangbi's PvZ is not that great of a deal


Agree with this guy. Luxury is no where near close to be compared with Jaedong.
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
April 10 2009 17:46 GMT
#76
On April 10 2009 20:00 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2009 19:30 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
On April 10 2009 19:20 Plexa wrote:
Steve, if fantasy had won one more game in the OSL would he have been #1?


Yes, but why are you asking that question? It doesn't make any sense.

Maybe you could ask "If Fantasy had managed to block Jaedong's build a third time and won the series by outplaying Jaedong 3 times in a best of 5 OSL final" instead. Why on earth would you simplify it to "If Fantasy won one more game in the OSL"?

The only way Fantasy would be #1 was if he won game 3, or at least didn't get totally run over in games 3 and 4. Jaedong found a timing on-the-fly to counter Fantasy, and Fantasy couldn't deal with it. That's essentially what the entire series boils down to, as well as that sick 2ling/drone vulture block.

Fantasy is below Bisu and Luxury for the simple reason that this is a recurring theme in his games. He has wonderful snap decision making abilities in TvP, but it doesn't translate to his other matchups. Preparation is only half the battle, you know?
I'm just not convinced that Luxury is better than fantasy is all. He pushed Jaedong, the best ZvT in the world without question, to within breaking point. He also trashed Luxury 2-1 losing on Medusa (Z>T map anyway) in the OSL. I'm also not convinced that Bisu is worse than Luxury; he pushes Jaedong to the very limit in GOM and he trashed July (ZvP god) and Yarnc in the group stages. Despite stumbling against by.hero, if Bisu and Luxury played 100 time on balanced maps i'd expect bisu to win more than luxury.

=/ I feel that Luxury is too highly placed for what was really quite an easy MSL run. Jaedong/Flash/Bisu were all taken out relatively early on by freak happenings and the overall competition imo was weaker than the OSLs (hence why Jangbi/Luxury weren't semifinalists in the OSL).

Regardless, I agree that Bisu should be over Fantasy though... those maps were the WORST possible maps for the series (all T>>P) and Bisu is the better player.


Oh come on don't blame the maps why Bisu lost . Stork made fantasy look like the newby that he really is , twise last OSL on chupung and what did Bisu do a retarded carrier build ? Bisu's PvT isn't that great compared to Stork and JangBi everyone who doesn't agree with this don't bother respoding because i wouldn't bother argueing it . Don't blame the maps please he had medusa in the map pool its only his own fault for being 3 - 0d not maps . Seriously not scouting a hidden third base can't be blamed on map imbalance nor playing average PvT in that series .

And Luxury's road wasn't easy maybe not as hard as Fantasy's but sure as hell wasn't easy .

Now on to the power rank :
I agree with the placements don't agree with :

As a fan of Stork's PvT i still think he would demolish Fantasy if they meet right now . Bisu played bad in my opinion fantasy played at a higher level and won .

Luxury being the best ZvP as others have mentioned nor is Jaedong . July and his prodigy by.hero have the best ZvP .
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
April 10 2009 18:06 GMT
#77
I can't agree at all with this power rank.

its not even wrong
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
April 10 2009 18:26 GMT
#78
The fanboy in me isn't convinced by your claim that JD has the second best ZvP in the world, but I'll go rewatch some games. I seriously doubt that Luxury could have beaten Bisu in the GOM bo5, but we'll never know.
Force staff is the best item in the game.
xhuwin
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States476 Posts
April 10 2009 18:33 GMT
#79
NADA! It's good to see him back in the PR
xyn
scwizard
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1195 Posts
April 10 2009 18:45 GMT
#80
Guys, it's not the records that count, it's the games, and Luxury showed that he has a great game against protoss in that set against Jangbi.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 22 23 24 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
19:00
Mid Season Playoffs
Spirit vs PercivalLIVE!
Cham vs TBD
ByuN vs Jumy
SteadfastSC1023
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 1023
NeuroSwarm 163
RuFF_SC2 115
Nathanias 85
ProTech64
ROOTCatZ 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 731
Shuttle 691
Light 231
Sharp 134
HiyA 21
Icarus 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever957
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Fnx 385
Other Games
summit1g7294
JimRising 399
C9.Mang0239
Maynarde124
Trikslyr56
ViBE40
XaKoH 26
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick897
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH168
• davetesta31
• Sammyuel 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1309
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
7h 43m
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
Map Test Tournament
8h 43m
The PondCast
10h 43m
RSL Revival
1d 7h
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Online Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.