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On May 13 2009 21:30 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2009 21:18 fanatacist wrote:On May 13 2009 21:14 Geo.Rion wrote:
Jaedong almost always loses his first game in a series. This did not prevent him to take and hold the nr.1 rank so far, so you sohuld get over it. Jd is known for doing this, check his bo3 and bo5 series. Yea, but there is a difference between doing that with Fantasy or Bisu and doing that with Movie. It's irrelevant if that's how Jaedong does it every time if he does it when he faces no-name scrubs, players worse than him that are still good, AND other S-class gamers. Are you trying to argue that he loses the first game on purpose? That would be the only excuse for his loss. However, I doubt Jaedong is that stupid. he's not doing it on purpose. It's just a habit or sg , there were some intreviwes where they asked him why does this happen. Try to find them, i dont have the whole day .
It's your argument, YOU find your evidence. Until you prove to me otherwise, that argument is
1. stupid, as it implies he does it on purpose or does nothing to fix his habit
2. false, and therefore does not make the loss to Movie any more justified
~fusionsdf: Like I said, Movie is not a terrible player, but he is not someone who should be 1 game away from a win in a Bo3 against an in-form Jaedong.
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On May 14 2009 05:43 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2009 21:30 Geo.Rion wrote:On May 13 2009 21:18 fanatacist wrote:On May 13 2009 21:14 Geo.Rion wrote:
Jaedong almost always loses his first game in a series. This did not prevent him to take and hold the nr.1 rank so far, so you sohuld get over it. Jd is known for doing this, check his bo3 and bo5 series. Yea, but there is a difference between doing that with Fantasy or Bisu and doing that with Movie. It's irrelevant if that's how Jaedong does it every time if he does it when he faces no-name scrubs, players worse than him that are still good, AND other S-class gamers. Are you trying to argue that he loses the first game on purpose? That would be the only excuse for his loss. However, I doubt Jaedong is that stupid. he's not doing it on purpose. It's just a habit or sg , there were some intreviwes where they asked him why does this happen. Try to find them, i dont have the whole day . It's your argument, YOU find your evidence. Until you prove to me otherwise, that argument is 1. stupid, as it implies he does it on purpose or does nothing to fix his habit 2. false, and therefore does not make the loss to Movie any more justified ~ fusionsdf: Like I said, Movie is not a terrible player, but he is not someone who should be 1 game away from a win in a Bo3 against an in-form Jaedong.
It does not worth arguing with you, you're too narrow minded. IN a bo3/5/7/92313217312 losing one of the game has no importance at all. It does not have any further effect. Like in football a 4-0 win worths as much as a 2-1 win point-wise, but the number of goals could play a role eventually. In SLs they dont play any role.
He should not drop even one game that's true, but he does, but the thing is that he shows he's the better player after all, + add the fact that he's not doing so well in the first sets for some wierd (probably psycholgicly) reason, or because he isnt warmed up or hell knows. This losses are almost expected. He can afford that.
Nobody says JD is one million times better than anyone else, he can be baten and he has more games to practice for than players like movie or ganzi etc. do. He's always on the A lineup of OZ, and he always has to practice for the ace match. While the others can sit and figure out a way to take JD down, which does not happen after all, they just "score a goal" sometimes. I dont know if you got the point, if you did not, please do not answer i really dislike your stlye of posting, it's not about this little "fight" here, i've read many of your posts in many topics, and there were really few i could agree with or could aknowledge.
About the interview, i'm pretty sure it was done by lilsusie in GOM(ther could be more ofc), if you dont care that much to search for it, i wont waste the time searching it for you, you wont give a s**t about it anyways and would reply something which reflects that.
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Games won in a series are much different from points scored in a game, that is a terrible comparison. I already showed why there is a big difference between 3-0 and 3-2 earlier.
On the other hand, if you want to use the analogy of "points scored in a game" = "games won in a series", then here is one: Lets say the #1 team in the county beats the worst team in the country 21 - 20. The #1 team still won, but it sure as hell was an ugly win considering their competition. This is an extreme example, but it gets the idea across.
A perfect example of it would be this past season of NCAA Football. UGA was ranked #1 at the beginning of the season. They beat Georgia Southern 45-21. Georgia Southern is much smaller school, and isn't even a AAA school. Because UGA had slight "problems" with a school they had no business having problems against, UGA dropped in the rankings the following week. The same principle can be applied here.
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KeSPA #1 Power Rank
Absolutely destroyed Leta and GoRush without dropping a match.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 14 2009 01:04 Musoeun wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2009 11:33 AzureEye wrote:
Bisu's been 8-1 since his last OSL loss. That 1 loss is cheese. How does Fantasy deserve a #1 spot over Bisu when Fantasy has been 6-2 since OSL finals? Bisu's games have been 1 sided lately as well (i.e. Bisu vs Calm) I don't think that a proxy hatch contain halfway through a game counts as cheese, and Bisu didn't respond to it half as well as free did. I'm not debating your main point (Bisu owns joo), but you can't just dismiss the loss. To be clear, great beats Bisu with a 5-pool? Cheese. great beats Bisu by building map control and sunken-containing? Not cheese. Plus, regardless of the methods employed, Bisu still lost. Results matter. Alternatively, we have to discount Bisu's win over Leta, which was truly cheesy. But that would be silly.
The most important facet of that game isn't that Bisu lost, it's that he played so, so, so, SO bad
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On May 14 2009 15:01 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2009 01:04 Musoeun wrote:On May 13 2009 11:33 AzureEye wrote:
Bisu's been 8-1 since his last OSL loss. That 1 loss is cheese. How does Fantasy deserve a #1 spot over Bisu when Fantasy has been 6-2 since OSL finals? Bisu's games have been 1 sided lately as well (i.e. Bisu vs Calm) I don't think that a proxy hatch contain halfway through a game counts as cheese, and Bisu didn't respond to it half as well as free did. I'm not debating your main point (Bisu owns joo), but you can't just dismiss the loss. To be clear, great beats Bisu with a 5-pool? Cheese. great beats Bisu by building map control and sunken-containing? Not cheese. Plus, regardless of the methods employed, Bisu still lost. Results matter. Alternatively, we have to discount Bisu's win over Leta, which was truly cheesy. But that would be silly. The most important facet of that game isn't that Bisu lost, it's that he played so, so, so, SO bad
That is true, but can't we say the same thing about Fantasy's recent losses?
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On May 14 2009 06:08 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2009 05:43 fanatacist wrote:On May 13 2009 21:30 Geo.Rion wrote:On May 13 2009 21:18 fanatacist wrote:On May 13 2009 21:14 Geo.Rion wrote:
Jaedong almost always loses his first game in a series. This did not prevent him to take and hold the nr.1 rank so far, so you sohuld get over it. Jd is known for doing this, check his bo3 and bo5 series. Yea, but there is a difference between doing that with Fantasy or Bisu and doing that with Movie. It's irrelevant if that's how Jaedong does it every time if he does it when he faces no-name scrubs, players worse than him that are still good, AND other S-class gamers. Are you trying to argue that he loses the first game on purpose? That would be the only excuse for his loss. However, I doubt Jaedong is that stupid. he's not doing it on purpose. It's just a habit or sg , there were some intreviwes where they asked him why does this happen. Try to find them, i dont have the whole day . It's your argument, YOU find your evidence. Until you prove to me otherwise, that argument is 1. stupid, as it implies he does it on purpose or does nothing to fix his habit 2. false, and therefore does not make the loss to Movie any more justified ~ fusionsdf: Like I said, Movie is not a terrible player, but he is not someone who should be 1 game away from a win in a Bo3 against an in-form Jaedong. It does not worth arguing with you, you're too narrow minded. IN a bo3/5/7/92313217312 losing one of the game has no importance at all. It does not have any further effect. Like in football a 4-0 win worths as much as a 2-1 win point-wise, but the number of goals could play a role eventually. In SLs they dont play any role. He should not drop even one game that's true, but he does, but the thing is that he shows he's the better player after all, + add the fact that he's not doing so well in the first sets for some wierd (probably psycholgicly) reason, or because he isnt warmed up or hell knows. This losses are almost expected. He can afford that. Nobody says JD is one million times better than anyone else, he can be baten and he has more games to practice for than players like movie or ganzi etc. do. He's always on the A lineup of OZ, and he always has to practice for the ace match. While the others can sit and figure out a way to take JD down, which does not happen after all, they just "score a goal" sometimes. I dont know if you got the point, if you did not, please do not answer i really dislike your stlye of posting, it's not about this little "fight" here, i've read many of your posts in many topics, and there were really few i could agree with or could aknowledge. About the interview, i'm pretty sure it was done by lilsusie in GOM(ther could be more ofc), if you dont care that much to search for it, i wont waste the time searching it for you, you wont give a s**t about it anyways and would reply something which reflects that.
wat
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 14 2009 16:21 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2009 15:01 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 14 2009 01:04 Musoeun wrote:On May 13 2009 11:33 AzureEye wrote:
Bisu's been 8-1 since his last OSL loss. That 1 loss is cheese. How does Fantasy deserve a #1 spot over Bisu when Fantasy has been 6-2 since OSL finals? Bisu's games have been 1 sided lately as well (i.e. Bisu vs Calm) I don't think that a proxy hatch contain halfway through a game counts as cheese, and Bisu didn't respond to it half as well as free did. I'm not debating your main point (Bisu owns joo), but you can't just dismiss the loss. To be clear, great beats Bisu with a 5-pool? Cheese. great beats Bisu by building map control and sunken-containing? Not cheese. Plus, regardless of the methods employed, Bisu still lost. Results matter. Alternatively, we have to discount Bisu's win over Leta, which was truly cheesy. But that would be silly. The most important facet of that game isn't that Bisu lost, it's that he played so, so, so, SO bad That is true, but can't we say the same thing about Fantasy's recent losses?
yes we certainly can
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I think that best zvp has ofc July : ) I love to watch his low eco strats:D
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On May 14 2009 04:38 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2009 03:50 Jaeden wrote:
yeah but why does that count as a minus to bisu..who doesnt even play in gsl, I mean, it's better to win even though 2-1, than to no play at all, right? (don`t get me wrong, bisu had a better month I`m not arguing with that) What? What sort of argument is that...? No one faults Bisu for not being in GOM s3, that was his team's decision, not his. If someone didn't play in something, they didn't play in something. I guess I can fault Jaedong for not playing in SKT1 vs STX... No wait, that's retarded. Players should be judged based on the games they played, and the results produced by those games.
what? I didnt fault bisu omg, I`m just saying that that shouldn`t count as a minuuuuuuus, omg seems like my english is broken 
ALSO KEEP IN MIND THAT I AGREE BISU HAD A BETTER MONTH THAN JD!, so stop saying that I keep arguing pls
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On May 14 2009 04:19 Mogwai wrote:
what exactly are you arguing again?
Jaedong had other losses in proleague that showed some little hitches in his flawless play from last month that make talking about whether he should stay on top a worthwhile debate.
Jesus, I`ve never said that JD should remain on top :|
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I think JD should stay on top. 8-2 in his last 10 games isn't really anything to be embarrassed about, especially since he hasn't really lost any important games except for some proleague losses. Then again, everyone loses sometimes and I would like to wait to see how he'll perform in the starleagues before putting Bisu ahead of him. Jaedong is the OSL champion, after all, whereas Bisu failed to do anything in the starleagues last season.
Also, I think it's about time for Stork to go.
(P)Horang2 OGN 2109 - 2040 - 2005 - 2051 -
(P)Stork KHAN 2108 2282 2192 2251 2120 2166 2043 2184
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If the PR would've gone up in time, I would've been firmly behind JD going down to third. But Jaedong's not only producing better results lately, he's playing like his OSL winning beastly self. I wouldn't be upset if he isn't #1 once the new PR goes up, but if he keeps up like he is, I might cock an eyebrow at dropping him.
I mean, Oz is 9:0 in their latest Proleague games so it's not like he's even doing bad in proleague (sure it's mostly zvz thanks to battle royale but 9:0 is 9:0 for good reason). He's advanced in MSL (a little shaky at first but he's solidly in) and in GOM, Oz is still #1, etc etc. He's on top of everything.
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eh, I still think Bisu has been putting up slightly better results lately, and it could be argued for fantasy as well. It really depends on how much emphasis you put on recent performances as opposed to older(i.e. OSL) ones.
As long as Jaedong/Fantasy/Bisu are the top three(in whatever order) i'm not going to complain too much.
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Bisu #1 for PR please
EDIT: + Show Spoiler +Saw Jaedong tear up Ganzi and Doctor K just now. Now I don't know if Jaedong should remain #1 or give it to Bisu.
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Is the PR about last month's performance or the last 30 days?
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It's about the current best player.
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On May 15 2009 02:15 Avidkeystamper wrote:
It's about the current best player.
Theoretically, this is what PR should be about, (and I would love to see Flash / Jaedong / Bisu on top of PR for a year) but since PR is monthly, and people are damn impatient and always wants change, PR becomes more of a monthly performance. Someone said PR would be "boring" if they saw those 3 titans on top 3 for a year, but I disagree
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Fantasy is, in general, playing much better than Flash and would be considered the current best Terran, as far as I'm aware. Bisu and JD are obvious shoe ins, given the poooor performance of the dragons club, and every Zerg but Zero being kind of meh.
But yeah we know results don't really matter when Fakesteve is in charge, considering he kept Savior at #1 back when Bisu thoroughly stomped him. It's just who the writer thinks is totally totally better than anyone below them. We already know the #1 for this month is Fantasy (Steve said that was his choice and he seems adamant on picking someone who thinks specifically like him), so it's more of an argument between JD and Bisu on who gets 2nd, which, given Steve's recent "God Bisu be failin' " post, might be a little more clearcut then some people would think.
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On May 15 2009 02:45 TwoToneTerran wrote:and every Zerg but Zero being kind of meh.
Zero's playing like a monster, but still, Calm and Effort?
Since last PR:
Zero is 12-2
Calm is 10-3
Effort is 9-2
none of these three are playing too shabby and all deserve spots on the PR as far as I'm concerned.
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EPT
