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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On April 10 2009 19:49 HonestTea wrote: Can we make it a rule that if you lose to someone in a Bo5, then you're below them in the Power Rank? that would be quite stupid, since the other might have had less time to practice or the best MU vs worst MU scenario etcetc | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8093 Posts
I just cant take into account that bo5 against bisu, its just their team mates and thats what always happens, someone rapes Its just like Forgg in arena, yeah he 3-0ed the two best players on the planet but what did he do next season, nothing For fantasy to be a better terran he needs to have some half decent results in proleauge which he isnt doing I admit that this month he has played better than flash but calling him the best is wrong imo | ||
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Lenwe
Netherlands757 Posts
And I do think that even if Jaedong had lost the OSL final he should have still been no. 1. His play the last (few) month(s) has just been amazing. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17743 Posts
 . Thank you for the pr. Really love reading your thoughts. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 10 2009 19:30 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: I'm just not convinced that Luxury is better than fantasy is all. He pushed Jaedong, the best ZvT in the world without question, to within breaking point. He also trashed Luxury 2-1 losing on Medusa (Z>T map anyway) in the OSL. I'm also not convinced that Bisu is worse than Luxury; he pushes Jaedong to the very limit in GOM and he trashed July (ZvP god) and Yarnc in the group stages. Despite stumbling against by.hero, if Bisu and Luxury played 100 time on balanced maps i'd expect bisu to win more than luxury. Yes, but why are you asking that question? It doesn't make any sense. Maybe you could ask "If Fantasy had managed to block Jaedong's build a third time and won the series by outplaying Jaedong 3 times in a best of 5 OSL final" instead. Why on earth would you simplify it to "If Fantasy won one more game in the OSL"? The only way Fantasy would be #1 was if he won game 3, or at least didn't get totally run over in games 3 and 4. Jaedong found a timing on-the-fly to counter Fantasy, and Fantasy couldn't deal with it. That's essentially what the entire series boils down to, as well as that sick 2ling/drone vulture block. Fantasy is below Bisu and Luxury for the simple reason that this is a recurring theme in his games. He has wonderful snap decision making abilities in TvP, but it doesn't translate to his other matchups. Preparation is only half the battle, you know? =/ I feel that Luxury is too highly placed for what was really quite an easy MSL run. Jaedong/Flash/Bisu were all taken out relatively early on by freak happenings and the overall competition imo was weaker than the OSLs (hence why Jangbi/Luxury weren't semifinalists in the OSL). Regardless, I agree that Bisu should be over Fantasy though... those maps were the WORST possible maps for the series (all T>>P) and Bisu is the better player. | ||
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amanet
Croatia334 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
skyhigh ftw! | ||
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okum
France5779 Posts
Behold the fury of the swarm. BTW, it would be neat if the names in the PR sidebar linked to the player profiles. | ||
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luiohh
Bangladesh78 Posts
Now, Bisu is above Fantasy for two reasons. The first should be obvious - Bisu's average game has been astounding lately, whereas Fantasy has only excelled in series where he has a lot of time to prepare. Second, let's have a look at Bisu vs Fantasy from the OSL Semifinal. Now, this was a 3-0 drubbing of the highest order. Usually, this would be a strong indicator of who is better. In this specific instance, that's not the case. It shows that Bisu vastly underestimated Fantasy, and shows that his preparation went in completely the wrong direction. That's bad, but given Bisu's long history of success, we KNOW this is not the norm, and we KNOW this is not going to happen so simply again. I disagree with putting Bisu above Fantasy. I can accept your first reason - that as against other people, Bisu is perhaps better than Fantasy. But in the head to head matchup, I fail to see why Fantasy's extraordinary preparation for the series should count against him, and at the same time, Bisu's underestimation of Fantasy should be taken in Bisu's favour. If anything at all, these should count in Fantasy's favour - a clear sign of a man with a plan executing it flawlessly against an opponent who underestimated his enemy and had underprepared or misprepared. Besides, whether Bisu actually underestimated Fantasy is pure speculation on your part. And it's not as if Fantasy had a lot more time to prepare than Bisu - both of them had WL duties a few days ago. To draw an analogy: take the latest NBA season: Cleveland goes 63-15 in the regular season; whereas Dallas goes 47-31. Both go on to qualify for the playoffs, where Dallas drubs Cleveland 4-0. Would you put Cleveland on top of Dallas if there was some NBA power rank? If Cleveland had underestimated Dallas, or Dallas had came up with a beautiful game plan just to counter Cleveland, why should that count in Dallas's favour? | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
the ranking is ok, but the comments are a bit off imo, coz I also don`t agree with Fantasy being the best T, for exactly the same reason you've mentioned, Steve. Sure, he had way better results this month, so he is higher, but not better imho  | ||
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
On April 10 2009 19:49 HonestTea wrote: Can we make it a rule that if you lose to someone in a Bo5, then you're below them in the Power Rank? I believe this breaks the many months of Flash being higher than Jaedong, actually. | ||
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Jaksiel
United States4130 Posts
Also, I know I say this all the time and it hasn't come true yet, but damnit, Zero WILL get his shit together some day. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 10 2009 20:27 luiohh wrote: I disagree with putting Bisu above Fantasy. I can accept your first reason - that as against other people, Bisu is perhaps better than Fantasy. But in the head to head matchup, I fail to see why Fantasy's extraordinary preparation for the series should count against him, and at the same time, Bisu's underestimation of Fantasy should be taken in Bisu's favour. If anything at all, these should count in Fantasy's favour - a clear sign of a man with a plan executing it flawlessly against an opponent who underestimated his enemy and had underprepared or misprepared. Besides, whether Bisu actually underestimated Fantasy is pure speculation on your part. And it's not as if Fantasy had a lot more time to prepare than Bisu - both of them had WL duties a few days ago. To draw an analogy: take the latest NBA season: Cleveland goes 63-15 in the regular season; whereas Dallas goes 47-31. Both go on to qualify for the playoffs, where Dallas drubs Cleveland 4-0. Would you put Cleveland on top of Dallas if there was some NBA power rank? If Cleveland had underestimated Dallas, or Dallas had came up with a beautiful game plan just to counter Cleveland, why should that count in Dallas's favour? The entire point of all that was I am ranking players according to how well they have played over the last month. It's like suggesting Tempest is a better player than Light because he beat him twice in MSL. There are more variables that need to be considered, and Bisu comes out on top in every one but that series. The point I was trying to make is that Bisu losing 3-0 isn't the be-all and end-all barometer with which we can measure player performance. And yes, saying Bisu underestimated Fantasy is pure speculation on why Bisu's preparation was so illogical. HonestTea, why don't we just calculate winrates using TLPD and post that instead? Simplifies the whole process, wouldn't that be nice? | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8093 Posts
Fantasy is the best Terran on earth, all his flaws included. Second OSL final in a row, second heartbreaking 2-3 loss. iloveoov is building a mechanical titan, but construction is not yet complete. He's well ahead of schedule, though. What seperates Fantasy from other Terrans right now is his game sense - his TvP is a thing of beauty; not nearly as mechanically impressive as Flash, but wholly more devastating all the same. Fantasy brings intelligence and flexibility against Protoss to an entirely new level, similar to what Sea[Shield] was doing two years ago. I'm sure Protoss pros will eventually figure this out and begin cheesing him endlessly, but I think Fantasy is capable of shrugging it all off. When you watch Fantasy play, you aren't watching an SKT T1 Terran. You are watching the next inevitable step in the evolution of StarCraft. The fish has grown legs, but the lungs ain't done yet. Fakesteve i dont see how fantasy has evolved TvP to another level when over the past month he has only played the Bo5 vs bisu where he won easily because he knows bisu's play style so well There wasnt really anything special about fantasy's play in that series, so i was just wondering what you ment by that comment | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
On April 10 2009 17:57 TheTyranid wrote: Nada the greatest player of all time? Boxer would have something to say to that.  I bet he would....until he would notice the badges on Nada`s collar | ||
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konadora
Singapore66365 Posts
Also, despite being a HUUUUGEE Fantasy fan (Not really into Bisu, sorry), I must agree that Bisu is still better than Fantasy, and just because Fantasy won him 3-0 doesn't mean he's better than Bisu. Well-written. | ||
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
On April 10 2009 20:36 QibingZero wrote: Ugh, he obviously meant "lose to someone in a Bo5 THAT MONTH". I believe this breaks the many months of Flash being higher than Jaedong, actually. | ||
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MasterReY
Germany2708 Posts
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DownMaxX
Canada1311 Posts
Watch HoeJJa this season. Also the two Sparkyz Zerg, YarnC and type-b. | ||
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Dice
Korea (South)926 Posts
On April 10 2009 20:13 amanet wrote: bisu > jae & lux more like JD > All | ||
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