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On January 14 2009 05:22 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2009 05:20 AzureEye wrote:On January 13 2009 19:02 baubo wrote:On January 13 2009 16:49 AzureEye wrote:On January 13 2009 08:21 disciple wrote:On January 13 2009 07:23 MoRe_mInErAls wrote:
Can we move Jaedong up and kick Sea off already? It's looking horribly out of date. Jaedong has consistently been one of the top 5 players in the world for over a year and this Power Rank only shows bias for two weeks of his unlucky play.
I didn't believe anyone on the list were favourites over him 1 month ago and I don't believe it now Then you are a true fanboy! Just like me when bisu was slumping I couldnt except the fact that others were performing better than him because his mechanics his game sense, timings, everything was OK but he kept on dropping games anyway... And I might be wrong but JD is a huge underdog in his MSL group. IMO it will be a really big deal and a strong statement if he somehow manages to advance Lets be realistic here, Jaedong might have been minislumping a month ago but his #8 spot on his PR meant that the 7 others above him performed better that month, than to conclude that Jaedong is the 8th best player in the world last month. Well, his current MSL group, it contains Flash, Firebathero, and Hwasin. It contains all T players, which JD seems to have trouble with, whether its because of map, or the imbalancies of the game, or the skill. And also, there is Flash in there so yeah :D Jaedong is clearly still in the top 3 best players of the world no matter how bad he performs in a month. This is something that I don't like about PR, the way the ranking spots movement is way too fickle, if the best player in the world for a year plays bad in April, he's still the best fucking player in May unless we can clearly see that he loses to players he normally rapes, and his players are clearly sloppy, etc. The best players should definately have the benefit of the doubt. The reason why #1 players drop down to #5 or below nowadays is that people here complain too much about how much a player loses in a month, and believe that the #1 person isn't number 1 material anymore because he lost x games in y month. I think that PR should strictly be about who are the top 10 players in the progaming scene in that month, instead of which top 10 players performed the best in that month. Its really becoming the latter, and that makes PR worthless imo. Just curious how you determine this. What level of Starcraft knowledge, hours of watching VODs, and understanding the circumstances behind each game does it take to make such a good judgment? Btw, just to let you know, there is a long term performance indicator, which is the KESPA. There is a moving win-loss pure performance indicator, which is the ELO rating. Then there is the opinion of a single Sea[Shield] fan who ranks them based on how he sees their plays, which is the TL Power Ranking.  It seems to me you should just refer to the Kespa ranking, because that's probably what you're looking for. Well, if we specifically speak about Jaedong himself, KESPA does him no justice because there was absolutely no reason to not sanction the first season of GOM which he won. This plus the fact that KESPA is usually slow and outdated on the best players is why I choose to not follow KESPA. ELO rating does not factor in what conditions and how the games went, such as if the player got cheesed or not, and if it was a one sided game or not. I truly think a starcraft veteran like FS with agreement with other starcraft veterans make pretty damn good judgements when it comes to players strength. So I don't see why PR can't depend on them. (After all, this IS their site) Kespa had good reasons to not sanction the GOM1. SKT, OGN, MBC, ACE and if i remember correctly CJ werent involved, so it was 7 teams from 12, now it's 10 teams of 12 so it cannot be ignored
Actually, I think it was the other way around. Kespa didn't sanction GOM1, so therefore all those teams you mention dropped out of the league.
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Wasn't the reason it wasn't sanctioned or whatever because it was an invitational?
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On January 14 2009 12:35 Jumbalumba wrote:
Wasn't the reason it wasn't sanctioned or whatever because it was an invitational?
That was the Gom Star Invitational, they are talking about the
Gom-Averatec Intel Classic Season 1 Starleague.
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On January 14 2009 05:20 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 19:02 baubo wrote:On January 13 2009 16:49 AzureEye wrote:On January 13 2009 08:21 disciple wrote:On January 13 2009 07:23 MoRe_mInErAls wrote:
Can we move Jaedong up and kick Sea off already? It's looking horribly out of date. Jaedong has consistently been one of the top 5 players in the world for over a year and this Power Rank only shows bias for two weeks of his unlucky play.
I didn't believe anyone on the list were favourites over him 1 month ago and I don't believe it now Then you are a true fanboy! Just like me when bisu was slumping I couldnt except the fact that others were performing better than him because his mechanics his game sense, timings, everything was OK but he kept on dropping games anyway... And I might be wrong but JD is a huge underdog in his MSL group. IMO it will be a really big deal and a strong statement if he somehow manages to advance Lets be realistic here, Jaedong might have been minislumping a month ago but his #8 spot on his PR meant that the 7 others above him performed better that month, than to conclude that Jaedong is the 8th best player in the world last month. Well, his current MSL group, it contains Flash, Firebathero, and Hwasin. It contains all T players, which JD seems to have trouble with, whether its because of map, or the imbalancies of the game, or the skill. And also, there is Flash in there so yeah :D Jaedong is clearly still in the top 3 best players of the world no matter how bad he performs in a month. This is something that I don't like about PR, the way the ranking spots movement is way too fickle, if the best player in the world for a year plays bad in April, he's still the best fucking player in May unless we can clearly see that he loses to players he normally rapes, and his players are clearly sloppy, etc. The best players should definately have the benefit of the doubt. The reason why #1 players drop down to #5 or below nowadays is that people here complain too much about how much a player loses in a month, and believe that the #1 person isn't number 1 material anymore because he lost x games in y month. I think that PR should strictly be about who are the top 10 players in the progaming scene in that month, instead of which top 10 players performed the best in that month. Its really becoming the latter, and that makes PR worthless imo. Just curious how you determine this. What level of Starcraft knowledge, hours of watching VODs, and understanding the circumstances behind each game does it take to make such a good judgment? Btw, just to let you know, there is a long term performance indicator, which is the KESPA. There is a moving win-loss pure performance indicator, which is the ELO rating. Then there is the opinion of a single Sea[Shield] fan who ranks them based on how he sees their plays, which is the TL Power Ranking. It seems to me you should just refer to the Kespa ranking, because that's probably what you're looking for. Well, if we specifically speak about Jaedong himself, KESPA does him no justice because there was absolutely no reason to not sanction the first season of GOM which he won. This plus the fact that KESPA is usually slow and outdated on the best players is why I choose to not follow KESPA. ELO rating does not factor in what conditions and how the games went, such as if the player got cheesed or not, and if it was a one sided game or not. I truly think a starcraft veteran like FS with agreement with other starcraft veterans make pretty damn good judgements when it comes to players strength. So I don't see why PR can't depend on them. (After all, this IS their site)
Isn't the bold part exactly how you WANT the power ranking to be? That is, very old performances rather than just new ones? And you bash the PR while saying that FS and other mods are knowledgeable enough to make the PR. So I'm not sure about your point here.
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If only months had 35 days, this could be a monthly ranking 
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United States10774 Posts
Welcome back AzureEye, aka Feburarys/F13. I thoroughly enjoyed your "Terran is Imba" thread, when you made another account and praised yourself. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82796) You have right to insult other people, so don't.
P.S. - I don't know what's going on with FakeSteve, I guess he has been busy, but hasn't contacted me yet or anything. Hopefully something happens soon!
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On January 14 2009 18:33 OneOther wrote:
Welcome back AzureEye, aka Feburarys/F13. I thoroughly enjoyed your "Terran is Imba" thread, when you made another account and praised yourself. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82796) You have right to insult other people, so don't.
P.S. - I don't know what's going on with FakeSteve, I guess he has been busy, but hasn't contacted me yet or anything. Hopefully something happens soon!
Haha. One of the greatest bans in recent TL History. Glad to have you back bro.
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On January 14 2009 05:30 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 17:57 disciple wrote:he is maybe the best TvZ but his recent results in the MU are not impressive to say at least. Yes, he is out of his mini slump but he still lost a zvt vs upmagic and canata (?) and bisu saving his ass moving flash... c'mon dont start this once again  Are you serious? Jaedong is currently 10-6 over Flash and 5-4 over Hwasin. Only person Jaedong would be underdog to is FBH because FBH beat him many times recently. Upmagic didn't beat JD in a straight up game, he went vulture, and mech, while Jaedong went all-in lings which failed. Canata didn't play JD straight up and went mech, and abused mines (Terran overpowered unit) on destination (which is a Terran map because of narrow bridge and availabilty of mech) Just because theses players were afraid to play JD straight up and abused Terran advantage in TvZ doesn't mean that JD's recent results in ZvT are not impressive. The only two people coming out of the group would be FBH and Jaedong imo. Or Flash and Jaedong if JD can manage to use his new technique on FBH.
Since I am relatively new here, these posts help me to understand all the hate against JD-fanboys in this forum. Seriously, every game JD loses is because opponents use "overpowered units" (I lol'd so hard), didn't play straight up (which in your definition is only MnM , I lol'd more) or other bullshit. Seriously get over it, JD loses games because even the best do suck sometimes or just have bad luck with BOs and stuff.
And your Terran=imba statements are pathetic, terran is hard for zerg, get over it, it has been like this for ten years now.
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On January 14 2009 18:33 OneOther wrote:
Welcome back AzureEye, aka Feburarys/F13. I thoroughly enjoyed your "Terran is Imba" thread, when you made another account and praised yourself. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82796) You have right to insult other people, so don't.
ROFL. I hoped we would see more from this guy after that hilarious thread!
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On January 14 2009 21:22 adelarge wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2009 18:33 OneOther wrote:
Welcome back AzureEye, aka Feburarys/F13. I thoroughly enjoyed your "Terran is Imba" thread, when you made another account and praised yourself. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82796) You have right to insult other people, so don't. ROFL. I hoped we would see more from this guy after that hilarious thread!
You're just as bad.
On January 14 2009 21:25 adelarge wrote:My words exactly, I have no idea why are people so pumped about JD's ZvZ winning percentage...
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On January 14 2009 14:45 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2009 05:20 AzureEye wrote:On January 13 2009 19:02 baubo wrote:On January 13 2009 16:49 AzureEye wrote:On January 13 2009 08:21 disciple wrote:On January 13 2009 07:23 MoRe_mInErAls wrote:
Can we move Jaedong up and kick Sea off already? It's looking horribly out of date. Jaedong has consistently been one of the top 5 players in the world for over a year and this Power Rank only shows bias for two weeks of his unlucky play.
I didn't believe anyone on the list were favourites over him 1 month ago and I don't believe it now Then you are a true fanboy! Just like me when bisu was slumping I couldnt except the fact that others were performing better than him because his mechanics his game sense, timings, everything was OK but he kept on dropping games anyway... And I might be wrong but JD is a huge underdog in his MSL group. IMO it will be a really big deal and a strong statement if he somehow manages to advance Lets be realistic here, Jaedong might have been minislumping a month ago but his #8 spot on his PR meant that the 7 others above him performed better that month, than to conclude that Jaedong is the 8th best player in the world last month. Well, his current MSL group, it contains Flash, Firebathero, and Hwasin. It contains all T players, which JD seems to have trouble with, whether its because of map, or the imbalancies of the game, or the skill. And also, there is Flash in there so yeah :D Jaedong is clearly still in the top 3 best players of the world no matter how bad he performs in a month. This is something that I don't like about PR, the way the ranking spots movement is way too fickle, if the best player in the world for a year plays bad in April, he's still the best fucking player in May unless we can clearly see that he loses to players he normally rapes, and his players are clearly sloppy, etc. The best players should definately have the benefit of the doubt. The reason why #1 players drop down to #5 or below nowadays is that people here complain too much about how much a player loses in a month, and believe that the #1 person isn't number 1 material anymore because he lost x games in y month. I think that PR should strictly be about who are the top 10 players in the progaming scene in that month, instead of which top 10 players performed the best in that month. Its really becoming the latter, and that makes PR worthless imo. Just curious how you determine this. What level of Starcraft knowledge, hours of watching VODs, and understanding the circumstances behind each game does it take to make such a good judgment? Btw, just to let you know, there is a long term performance indicator, which is the KESPA. There is a moving win-loss pure performance indicator, which is the ELO rating. Then there is the opinion of a single Sea[Shield] fan who ranks them based on how he sees their plays, which is the TL Power Ranking. It seems to me you should just refer to the Kespa ranking, because that's probably what you're looking for. Well, if we specifically speak about Jaedong himself, KESPA does him no justice because there was absolutely no reason to not sanction the first season of GOM which he won. This plus the fact that KESPA is usually slow and outdated on the best players is why I choose to not follow KESPA. ELO rating does not factor in what conditions and how the games went, such as if the player got cheesed or not, and if it was a one sided game or not. I truly think a starcraft veteran like FS with agreement with other starcraft veterans make pretty damn good judgements when it comes to players strength. So I don't see why PR can't depend on them. (After all, this IS their site) Isn't the bold part exactly how you WANT the power ranking to be? That is, very old performances rather than just new ones? And you bash the PR while saying that FS and other mods are knowledgeable enough to make the PR. So I'm not sure about your point here.
I never bashed the PR, I just said its becoming into something thats more fickle, which I dislike imo. But its also something you can't really control since there is so much competition in the pro scene and new potential players pop up everyday. KESPA is not my ideal image of PR, not even close. KESPA is always slow and doesn't factor in lots of little variables. No matter what PR turns into, it will still probably be a better indicator of people's skills compared to KESPA.
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On January 15 2009 03:02 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2009 14:45 baubo wrote:On January 14 2009 05:20 AzureEye wrote:On January 13 2009 19:02 baubo wrote:On January 13 2009 16:49 AzureEye wrote:On January 13 2009 08:21 disciple wrote:On January 13 2009 07:23 MoRe_mInErAls wrote:
Can we move Jaedong up and kick Sea off already? It's looking horribly out of date. Jaedong has consistently been one of the top 5 players in the world for over a year and this Power Rank only shows bias for two weeks of his unlucky play.
I didn't believe anyone on the list were favourites over him 1 month ago and I don't believe it now Then you are a true fanboy! Just like me when bisu was slumping I couldnt except the fact that others were performing better than him because his mechanics his game sense, timings, everything was OK but he kept on dropping games anyway... And I might be wrong but JD is a huge underdog in his MSL group. IMO it will be a really big deal and a strong statement if he somehow manages to advance Lets be realistic here, Jaedong might have been minislumping a month ago but his #8 spot on his PR meant that the 7 others above him performed better that month, than to conclude that Jaedong is the 8th best player in the world last month. Well, his current MSL group, it contains Flash, Firebathero, and Hwasin. It contains all T players, which JD seems to have trouble with, whether its because of map, or the imbalancies of the game, or the skill. And also, there is Flash in there so yeah :D Jaedong is clearly still in the top 3 best players of the world no matter how bad he performs in a month. This is something that I don't like about PR, the way the ranking spots movement is way too fickle, if the best player in the world for a year plays bad in April, he's still the best fucking player in May unless we can clearly see that he loses to players he normally rapes, and his players are clearly sloppy, etc. The best players should definately have the benefit of the doubt. The reason why #1 players drop down to #5 or below nowadays is that people here complain too much about how much a player loses in a month, and believe that the #1 person isn't number 1 material anymore because he lost x games in y month. I think that PR should strictly be about who are the top 10 players in the progaming scene in that month, instead of which top 10 players performed the best in that month. Its really becoming the latter, and that makes PR worthless imo. Just curious how you determine this. What level of Starcraft knowledge, hours of watching VODs, and understanding the circumstances behind each game does it take to make such a good judgment? Btw, just to let you know, there is a long term performance indicator, which is the KESPA. There is a moving win-loss pure performance indicator, which is the ELO rating. Then there is the opinion of a single Sea[Shield] fan who ranks them based on how he sees their plays, which is the TL Power Ranking. It seems to me you should just refer to the Kespa ranking, because that's probably what you're looking for. Well, if we specifically speak about Jaedong himself, KESPA does him no justice because there was absolutely no reason to not sanction the first season of GOM which he won. This plus the fact that KESPA is usually slow and outdated on the best players is why I choose to not follow KESPA. ELO rating does not factor in what conditions and how the games went, such as if the player got cheesed or not, and if it was a one sided game or not. I truly think a starcraft veteran like FS with agreement with other starcraft veterans make pretty damn good judgements when it comes to players strength. So I don't see why PR can't depend on them. (After all, this IS their site) Isn't the bold part exactly how you WANT the power ranking to be? That is, very old performances rather than just new ones? And you bash the PR while saying that FS and other mods are knowledgeable enough to make the PR. So I'm not sure about your point here. I never bashed the PR, I just said its becoming into something thats more fickle, which I dislike imo. But its also something you can't really control since there is so much competition in the pro scene and new potential players pop up everyday. KESPA is not my ideal image of PR, not even close. KESPA is always slow and doesn't factor in lots of little variables. No matter what PR turns into, it will still probably be a better indicator of people's skills compared to KESPA.
Kespa isnt slow, they release their list the fastest, and they arent trying to make a stat about players skill levels, but they count the achievements, based on the past monthS
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Somebody please do the rank at once.
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On January 15 2009 03:01 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2009 21:22 adelarge wrote:On January 14 2009 18:33 OneOther wrote:
Welcome back AzureEye, aka Feburarys/F13. I thoroughly enjoyed your "Terran is Imba" thread, when you made another account and praised yourself. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82796) You have right to insult other people, so don't. ROFL. I hoped we would see more from this guy after that hilarious thread! You're just as bad. Show nested quote +On January 14 2009 21:25 adelarge wrote:On January 14 2009 14:34 Highways wrote:
Winning zvz means nothing. My words exactly, I have no idea why are people so pumped about JD's ZvZ winning percentage...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
But maybe you should start with something easier like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour
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Is the new PR going to be out in this month still?
just wonderingoO
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On January 15 2009 05:37 adelarge wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2009 03:01 Avidkeystamper wrote:On January 14 2009 21:22 adelarge wrote:On January 14 2009 18:33 OneOther wrote:
Welcome back AzureEye, aka Feburarys/F13. I thoroughly enjoyed your "Terran is Imba" thread, when you made another account and praised yourself. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82796) You have right to insult other people, so don't. ROFL. I hoped we would see more from this guy after that hilarious thread! You're just as bad. On January 14 2009 21:25 adelarge wrote:On January 14 2009 14:34 Highways wrote:
Winning zvz means nothing. My words exactly, I have no idea why are people so pumped about JD's ZvZ winning percentage... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IronyBut maybe you should start with something easier like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour
Way to be condescending. It doesn't matter since another person took you seriously too. Maybe you should use better sarcasm?
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On January 15 2009 12:59 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2009 05:37 adelarge wrote:On January 15 2009 03:01 Avidkeystamper wrote:On January 14 2009 21:22 adelarge wrote:On January 14 2009 18:33 OneOther wrote:
Welcome back AzureEye, aka Feburarys/F13. I thoroughly enjoyed your "Terran is Imba" thread, when you made another account and praised yourself. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82796) You have right to insult other people, so don't. ROFL. I hoped we would see more from this guy after that hilarious thread! You're just as bad. On January 14 2009 21:25 adelarge wrote:On January 14 2009 14:34 Highways wrote:
Winning zvz means nothing. My words exactly, I have no idea why are people so pumped about JD's ZvZ winning percentage... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IronyBut maybe you should start with something easier like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour Way to be condescending. It doesn't matter since another person took you seriously too. Maybe you should use better sarcasm?
Yeah, I sometimes forget how easy is to misinterpret things like that. But still, comparing it with somebody who made smurf account to support his own ridiculous theories was too much for me to respond calmly.
Anyway, this is a lot offtopic...which certainly wouldn't happen with new Power Rank *wink wink*.
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Doesn't Tamiyo Kusakari from "Shall we ダンス？" the Movie. Look like  Thezerg
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I'm really just now realizing that Leta wasn't on this power rank lol
He's prob top 5 material right now.
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On January 15 2009 12:59 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2009 05:37 adelarge wrote:On January 15 2009 03:01 Avidkeystamper wrote:On January 14 2009 21:22 adelarge wrote:On January 14 2009 18:33 OneOther wrote:
Welcome back AzureEye, aka Feburarys/F13. I thoroughly enjoyed your "Terran is Imba" thread, when you made another account and praised yourself. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82796) You have right to insult other people, so don't. ROFL. I hoped we would see more from this guy after that hilarious thread! You're just as bad. On January 14 2009 21:25 adelarge wrote:On January 14 2009 14:34 Highways wrote:
Winning zvz means nothing. My words exactly, I have no idea why are people so pumped about JD's ZvZ winning percentage... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IronyBut maybe you should start with something easier like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour Way to be condescending. It doesn't matter since another person took you seriously too. Maybe you should use better sarcasm?
That was me...@_@
It really did not seem like sarcasm, even considering it afterwards, maybe I would have gotten it if it had said "What I have been thinking exactly, ZvZ is a coinflip and JD is just really fucking good at winning coinflips, I mean look that that guy he could probably just walk into a casino and clean everyone out."
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EPT
