EPTDo you support the WCS 2015 region lock?
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Hydro033
United States136 Posts
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SoulRiM
Germany53 Posts
On September 06 2014 06:10 Hydro033 wrote: I always found it fascinating how Korea has the best player but least amount of money/tournaments. Why is this? I guess there are just less players and less gaming companies wanting to invest in esports. | ||
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Elite_
United States4259 Posts
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Peggies[x]
Philippines9 Posts
how come in SC2 there is only GSL? well I am just hoping they would add another major individual league in korea so that many more korean players can have the opportunity to showcase their skills and avoid retiring.. Also this will be great for sc2 fans.. :D | ||
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SelimSC
Turkey39 Posts
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
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Rikudou
Germany151 Posts
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swag_bro
Japan782 Posts
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sc2PaperCut
2 Posts
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UR.Solo
Canada13 Posts
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robson1
3632 Posts
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SLAYER29
United States50 Posts
On September 06 2014 11:31 SelimSC wrote: No I don't if its going to end up with the trade off of random NA Scrubs with hard working Koreans. And lets face it the game is never going to last long in America but there is a chance of creating a lasting e-sport in Korea. Isn't America providing the most money for events? Random NA scrubs??? It's supposed to be the best from each region, the best NA players should play the best players from other regions, like other global tournaments (the World Cup). | ||
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Survivor61316
United States470 Posts
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Twine
France246 Posts
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rift
1819 Posts
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Synergysc
United States25 Posts
On September 09 2014 13:27 rift wrote: Blizzard just fucked the Korean Starcraft 2 scene for the sake of white people. And for the sake of Starcraft 2 actually surviving as a popular game in America and Europe. It's blatantly obvious at this point that people don't want to see 8 koreans in the ro8 of WCS "America" and a lower-tier kespa player like Pigbaby simply just waltzing in and taking 1st place, they want to see homegrown heroes with a great storyline playing on their home turf. The fact of the matter is Starcraft 2 has no chance of survival under an ideology that "if you don't go pro then you fail" because the only chance of actually winning something in a non-region locked system is if you give up just about everything to travel and train in Korea. It's just not viable. Most people would rather just get a job instead of risking their lives like that | ||
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GreenMash
Norway1746 Posts
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iiGreetings
Canada563 Posts
Honestly though I do like the change. | ||
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Fall.182
United States126 Posts
It's not like Koreans have an unfair advantage over other players that make them better... they just work harder. It's stupid how they should be handicapped for working harder. Like seriously? | ||
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Fall.182
United States126 Posts
On September 08 2014 01:30 SLAYER29 wrote: Isn't America providing the most money for events? Random NA scrubs??? It's supposed to be the best from each region, the best NA players should play the best players from other regions, like other global tournaments (the World Cup). Quote from TLO's interview: Do you think that a stronger foreign scene is necessary for the long term success of SC2? I do believe a stronger foreign scene is required yes. However to reach that goal we don't need to kick out Koreans -- instead we need to strengthen our infrastructure. Teams need the money to invest into proper training structure and take a bigger role than just being an agency for players. Region lock is just a cop out, not a long term solution. | ||
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TJ31
630 Posts
And yes, as mentioned already, they are normal people too, they just work harder to achieve something. Foreign scene had/have some talents too. Stephano, Snute, Scarlet, Naniwa for example. Not gonna rant or anything, but don't think I'll watch too much of WCS EU/NA next year. And I rarely can watch KR one anyway (don't like the VODs either), so guess I'll have to find something else to watch. | ||
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Synergysc
United States25 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:11 Fall.182 wrote: hmm this whole situation seems very familiar... oh right. Affirmative Action. It's not like Koreans have an unfair advantage over other players that make them better... they just work harder. It's stupid how they should be handicapped for working harder. Like seriously? I don't think you realize how developed the Korean scene actually is at this point. Team houses, coaches, proleague, etc. The environment for improvement there is so superior to NA. This game is currently in trouble popularity-wise because most people don't dream of giving up their entire life just to fly and train in Korea and possibly end up failing. I assure you the Koreans have more of an advantage than you think when it comes to training. | ||
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SuperHofmann
Italy1741 Posts
- Less Koreans = Less Epic Games - Less Koreans in NA/EU Server = No training partner for the best foreigner = More gap between EU/NA and KR - More WCS Points to Foreigner = Unfair points system (We all know that the top 16 for BlizzCon (and I think the top 25-30) is made only by koreans (counting the skill level). Creating a points system that gives more point to foreigner is just a way to say "ok, foreigners are not good, but we are finding a way to mask it") - Obviosly there are some foreigner out from this, and they are Snute, Scarlett, VortiX, and maybe Huk, Major and Bunny - they are the only foreigners that show that can be to korean's level | ||
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ApriL
United Kingdom16 Posts
We are still going to see Korean Vs Korean finals in the NA WCS, the difference is less skilled players in the North American region will get paid instead of their counterparts in Korea. If you are like me and just want to see the best games possible then region locking seems silly. The Koreans should have the right to compete in whatever region they want to, just like foreigners do. It is the fault of the foreigners for not being as good as the Koreans. It is not the fault of the Koreans for being better than the foreigners. The move will grow the NA and EU scenes short term but long term it will still not deal with the problems that plague the scene. Problems like the state of the NA ladder will not change. Problems like foreigners not winning in the WCS will still not change. | ||
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TojoZ
United Kingdom13 Posts
But I can't imagine that level of investment in NA (or EU) pros, at least not on a scale large enough to support anything remotely similar to what Korea has atm. | ||
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LeviathanDK
Denmark87 Posts
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bg_andrew
Russian Federation1 Post
On September 09 2014 15:44 Synergysc wrote: ... a lower-tier kespa player like Pigbaby simply just waltzing in and taking 1st place.. Pigbaby went through Taeja, Hyan and Bomber to reach 1st place and it didn't look waltzing at all. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On September 12 2014 02:06 LeviathanDK wrote: why should foreign pros make a splash if they aren't as good? I do not support it as I want to see the best of the best in the best events! just make amateur division "Code B" below challenger and let them get experience down there until they are ready to play with the big boys! This makes zero sense. Even without region lock AM and EU aren't populated by the best of the best. If this is your mindset, you already don't care about AM and EU so there's no change there for you, and forcing Koreans to go back to Korea is only going to make GSL even more competitive, which is what you say you want. You should be approving of this wholeheartedly. | ||
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Luisa_2
Germany200 Posts
This leaves a lack-luster in WCS EU and NA, which will result in even more dwindeling viewercounts. Who is seriously gonna watch round of 32 now. WCS Korea/GSL will burst even more with top notch players forcing great players to basically stop playing the game cause its not worthwhile anymore for them in regards of making a living from it. | ||
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LtOin
Belgium19 Posts
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LtOin
Belgium19 Posts
On September 06 2014 10:17 Peggies[x] wrote: Iirc in broodwar there were 2 major individual leagues, the OSL and the MSL.. how come in SC2 there is only GSL? well I am just hoping they would add another major individual league in korea so that many more korean players can have the opportunity to showcase their skills and avoid retiring.. Also this will be great for sc2 fans.. :D Because MSL was organised by MBCgame. MBCgame was then absolved and replaced with a music channel, so there is no chance of that ever coming back. So basically no one else wanst to organise a second tournament. | ||
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Radicalness
United States271 Posts
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:11 Fall.182 wrote: hmm this whole situation seems very familiar... oh right. Affirmative Action. It's not like Koreans have an unfair advantage over other players that make them better... they just work harder. It's stupid how they should be handicapped for working harder. Like seriously? Depends on your definition of "working"; players who have to spend most of their time working jobs to pay bills don't have the ability to train 8-12 hours a day in SC2. There's no infrastructure to entice them to dedicate their time to the game. They'll just end up on the street. On September 10 2014 10:16 Fall.182 wrote: Quote from TLO's interview: Do you think that a stronger foreign scene is necessary for the long term success of SC2? I do believe a stronger foreign scene is required yes. However to reach that goal we don't need to kick out Koreans -- instead we need to strengthen our infrastructure. Teams need the money to invest into proper training structure and take a bigger role than just being an agency for players. Region lock is just a cop out, not a long term solution. TLO has it half right. He's right about needing infrastructure. The problem is he considers region lock to be a cop out, but Korea has never offered anything but region lock (GSL, OSL (defunct), Proleague). What region lock does is ensures tournament money is more likely to stay invested in the local region. The only way to get infrastructure is to have investment. Right now, AM and EU competitive scenes are being bled dry by Korea. Sure, playing against Koreans on ladder is always good, but regardless of who you play, you want the money to get recycled and build up the local region instead of being outsourced. When's the last time you heard of non-Koreans flying into Korea for a weekend and taking GSL winnings back to AM/EU? Never, that's when. Even the guys who managed to get some GSL earnings re-invested into the Korean scene, as they had to live in the region, play on the regional ladder, and in a number of cases stay/practice directly with Korean teams. Nowadays, things have become so lop-sided that Koreans wouldn't benefit from foreign player investment, and foreigners don't even bother trying to qualify for GSL anymore. | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
On September 09 2014 13:27 rift wrote: Blizzard just fucked the Korean Starcraft 2 scene for the sake of white people. I'm sure Suppy agrees. Drop the white people BS pls.. | ||
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Heyzeusx
Australia1 Post
Also, Did Blizzard just write Polt several cheques for next year? | ||
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jayy5
Canada11 Posts
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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Chylvain
France43 Posts
As some people said, less KR = NA/EU will be "bronze" level. | ||
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denikarabenc
Serbia1 Post
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:11 Fall.182 wrote: hmm this whole situation seems very familiar... oh right. Affirmative Action. It's not like Koreans have an unfair advantage over other players that make them better... they just work harder. It's stupid how they should be handicapped for working harder. Like seriously? i find it highly insensitive and ignorant to compare oppressive social issues with a game developer trying to further their brand. Like seriously? | ||
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Chilling5pr33
Germany518 Posts
Distribute the money by the amount of viewers the players attract, and distribute the points by skill. So we need this change. | ||
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NyxNax
United States227 Posts
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NyxNax
United States227 Posts
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Gojira621
United States374 Posts
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rednusa
651 Posts
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
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Mikku
Czech Republic58 Posts
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ForgottenTheOne
4 Posts
On October 05 2014 08:31 Mikku wrote: No. WCS leagues are the race to Blizzcon, and Blizzcon is established as Clash Of The Titans, the ultimate end of the whole season with the best players in it. Region lock means, that few of the best players in the world atm (yea, Koreans), will have to pass their spots to foreigners, just because of nationality. It is maybe the best solution for Starcraft and community, but it is simply unfair. Maybe there will be a 2nd Tourney, where there will be X amount of players from each region playing against each other and then deciding who'll go to Blizzcon. Also, remember that most tournaments with WCS points are held worldwide, without minding what your nationality is (IEM, Dreamhack, Homestory Cup, etc.), meaning that Koreans have big chances to play in Blizzcon if they win those tournaments. And those locks aren't so hard to overcome (most of players that play on EU/AM are playing there anyway). I strongly support this WCS Lock, because it will finally say who is the best in the region and not another "Worldwide" tourney. | ||
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GrayFox90
Malaysia23 Posts
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custombuild
31 Posts
On September 23 2014 01:23 Gojira621 wrote: I don't have the link to the post, but viewership for WCS overall has dropped nearly 50% from 2013 to 2014, changes like this are necessary otherwise WCS just becomes even more of a sunk cost for blizzard, but I don't think they were planning to make much money from it anyway. Average fans want to see more non-korean stars. The koreans still play in every other tournament so I don't see why WCS being region-locked has to be such a big deal. It was region locked in 2012 and that year of WCS was incredibly fun to watch, seeing local heroes compete on a global stage at the end of the year. Be honest with yourselves, if a premier tournament final was to have, I don't know, Huk vs Scarlett, or like First vs. Cure which do you think will pull in more viewers? You are 100% correct. Sc2 is not even in the top ten list of most played games in korea. BW has more viewership than sc2. LoL has taken over and it seems that it is going to stay for a long time. Region lock should have happened sooner. I do not know if it will work this time. Like a previous poster said, it will end up in Pro koreans vs a no name. I wonder who will win at the end... | ||
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Exitor45
United States72 Posts
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movac
Canada494 Posts
I find that the 2 WCS regions do not represent the players that come from that region. double the points from GSL if needed, but WCS NA and EU should represent the players of that region like it did back in 2012. I think many people have said that these 2 regions aren't interesting anymore once the tournament gets to the point where all the foreigners have been knocked out. Also there's no intrigue as to who will make top 8 in a season when it's fairly obvious who will make it. If koreans can't make the cut in WCS KR then so be it. They can still play in tournaments like dreamhack and IEM. | ||
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Helios.Star
United States548 Posts
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On September 09 2014 15:44 Synergysc wrote: And for the sake of Starcraft 2 actually surviving as a popular game in America and Europe. It's blatantly obvious at this point that people don't want to see 8 koreans in the ro8 of WCS "America" and a lower-tier kespa player like Pigbaby simply just waltzing in and taking 1st place, they want to see homegrown heroes with a great storyline playing on their home turf. The fact of the matter is Starcraft 2 has no chance of survival under an ideology that "if you don't go pro then you fail" because the only chance of actually winning something in a non-region locked system is if you give up just about everything to travel and train in Korea. It's just not viable. Most people would rather just get a job instead of risking their lives like that which is straight up stupid, if people dont appriciate the game for its beauty they might as well not appriciate it at all. as long as the korean region gets a ton of tournaments and at least 60% Of the combined prizepool I guess its fine. | ||
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johax
Sweden165 Posts
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FreDMouL
France59 Posts
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LynxRage
Switzerland5 Posts
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