EPTHow has the hellion/hellbat change affected the Terran vs…
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
On June 20 2014 05:09 Survivor61316 wrote: Well all I know is that I spent 4 seasons playing Terran and was only ever able to make it to gold, and in my first season as Zerg I made it to platinum within 30 games.. How easy a race may or may not be to play has nothing to do with balance. | ||
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MiCroLiFe
Norway264 Posts
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baHmi
22 Posts
Remember when zergs got annihilated by mines? And they still complained after they got nerfed? And suddenly a month later the top zergs would micro single units in front of their armies or group the buffed overseers with their muta ball and mines mostly went dud? I think it's the same with hellbats. Right now zergs are too careless with droning and when an attack happens they cry imba. Soon zergs will figure out the exact timings they need to build units to hold the hellbat push and balance will flip in their favor again. | ||
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
On June 20 2014 08:48 JacobShock wrote: How easy a race may or may not be to play has nothing to do with balance. Plus the fact the race might suit you. Plus the fact that play at that level has nothing to do with top tier balance. I myself think the matchup is quite balanced so far. Will have to see how this turns out in the long run. It's too early to tell. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Patch is too new, give it some time. | ||
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Frankenberry
Denmark302 Posts
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mortales
174 Posts
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TaShadan
Germany1969 Posts
On June 19 2014 05:27 yido wrote: This poll should be remade as: Is Taeja vs foreign zergs fair? TvZ is fairly balanced in the highest level of play, but still favors Zerg slightly on most maps and even more in the late game stage. Just because Taeja won HSC and DHack doesn't mean Zergs need a buff in ZvT. Noone should use foreigner games as a reference for balance. | ||
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Pandahunterz
Netherlands213 Posts
If you leave out the hellbats though and try for another strategy terran seems very weak though. Therefore all terrans go hellbats or at least try to make it look like they are so their opponents get scared and overcommit in hellbat defence and get rekt by every other strat. In other words hellbats just ruin the meta. This might solve itself by players finding better ways to deal with it, but even if it does until then watching TvZ is just way less fun for me (either terran destroys zerg with hellbats or any other strat cuz the zerg expects hellbats or the hellbat factor doesn't work out for the terran and the zerg wins). Think protoss deserves the attention a bit more than the TvZ at the moment. | ||
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F1nal
Germany216 Posts
Overall balanced I think. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
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frostalgia
United States178 Posts
I didn't come up with the name Transformation Servos, but I remember suggesting an upgrade to cause Hellions to transform. I asked for it to be 100/100 and not require Armory to research, but Blizzard wanted to really nerf these things after already trying a small change by reducing Medivac Slot size to 2 for Hellbats which didn't nerf them enough. This was back when they had the strength of Blue Flame without the research, which was the case for quite a while. Sure enough, the next week I saw Transformation Servos implemented. I saw no one else making that specific suggestion anywhere, although it certainly could've been. I could have very well suggested something they'd thought of already, but I prefer to believe we can have a positive effect on this game we all love, if we put enough effort into non-biased analysis. Now to branch on from that, I also had suggested that Pnumatized Carapace be moved to Hatch tech the week after Burrow was. I don't remember seeing that suggestion anywhere else either, but sure enough it was there the next week. I've sat back mostly since then, offering mostly feedback to others threads when the topic was worth replying to (rare on Bnet). However, after the nerf to Hellbats that requires Blue Flame to make them beefy, I decided to start replying again. I pleaded to buff the Servos upgrade, which I so badly wanted to see players get in tournaments, but never got used. Now I'm sure you can see why I've wanted this change for so long. After the Widow Mine nerf, I replied to blue posts suggesting again that they reduce the cost of Servos and don't require armory. Again, I don't claim that Blizzard used my ideas because I have no way to know for sure. But mostly on my own from what I could tell, I have been strongly pushing for a reason to get Servos for a long time. I gave a detailed explanation on a blue post thread earlier this year as to why Servos is no longer needed, and as someone who originally wanted it in the game, why I now wanted it gone. It didn't make sense with the Hellbat damage nerf already implemented, anyway. For the record, here was my reasoning: Hellions were holding Mech back. They didn't provide a good late-game use, and were only worth suiciding in for drone kills. Removing Servos helps Terran in lategame, by providing a nice way to zoom around the map then transform into beefy Hellbats for pressure. The Hellbat-Medivac Rush is having a good effect on Midgame TvZ right now, and in time it will stay a weapon in the Terran arsenal. However, with a Roach Warren or with enough Spines, Spores, and Queens, Zergs will figure out how to defend it. Then the metagame should really get interesting. I couldn't be happier with the variety it's added to TvZ. But let's not forget TvT!! Finally it feels like this matchup is evolving from it's WoL Marine/Tank roots. So this is just a big thanks to Blizzard for listening to this awesomely dedicated community (the constructive ones, anyway) and I hope to see many more GGs take place now that Heart of the Swarm feels fresh with possibilities again. I am enjoying the eventful 30-minute-plus matches we've been seeing from pros in all matchups across the board, and I'm excited to see where the metagame goes without any more changes taking place for a while. (I hope) | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On June 20 2014 19:46 baHmi wrote: I still think the matchup is balanced. Remember when zergs got annihilated by mines? And they still complained after they got nerfed? And suddenly a month later the top zergs would micro single units in front of their armies or group the buffed overseers with their muta ball and mines mostly went dud? I think it's the same with hellbats. Right now zergs are too careless with droning and when an attack happens they cry imba. Soon zergs will figure out the exact timings they need to build units to hold the hellbat push and balance will flip in their favor again. Zerg getting annihilated by mines: Zerg Loss: Substantial Terran Loss: Mine cost negligent Mines were thus, justifiably nerfed. Zerg drone line getting annihilated by Hellbat drops: Zerg Loss: Substantial Terran Loss: Hellbat cost negligent Hellbat drops need nerds again. Even if Zerg wasn't too careless with Hellbat drops, a "failed hellbat drop" would at least kill 2 drones. That's 100 minerals + any mining time + larva usage redirected. Hellbats are too cheap in cost for what they are. | ||
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MirGHeaT
17 Posts
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
you might say, skill counters everything, but at the highest level of play, the effectiveness of hellbats outweighs skill. it is not hard to do, and put zerg in a position where they need more skill than the terran player to make things work. it might be okay in casual ranked matchmaking, but when it comes down to the best, the best easy skill beats the best hardest skill. might look at skill balancing like giving zerg less things they need to do in order to keep up. still think early game zerg needs to be looked at against terran if they keep this | ||
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p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
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swddrgn
United States5 Posts
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