On July 18 2012 14:13 power-overwhelming wrote: Naniwa. Stephano's zvp is being hyped here too much. Starcraft has 3 races last time I checked. His zvz and zvt still isn't close to code S level. If he was in GSL I doubt he'd make it out of first group stages. The not-so-famous koreans would still beat him. Only top tier korean he has beaten recently is MC and that is a zvp, not to mention their last series MC won. Naniwa has proven himself in pvp, pvt, and pvz.
The stephano hype is just fueld by foreigner hope/ anti-korean bandwagons that jump for joy at any opportunity a foreigner wins a tourny, and in this case, it's more so stephano than naniwa (since naniwa is glued to GSL)
Seriously once again people are just rabbling without checking the facts. I dont understand this is starcraft 2 we got some of the most amasing stat tools available to us so why not use it so you dont look like a fool when you try to express youself
Stephano´s last 10 ZvT matches in Lan tournament settings
Stephano vs Keen 2-0 Stephano vs Morrow 2-0 Stephano vs Puma 2-0 Stephano vs MKP 1-2 Stephano vs Rain 2-1 Stephano vs Ganzi 2-0 Stephano vs Polt 2-1 Stephano vs Rain 2-0 Stephano vs Heart 2-1 Stephano vs Ryung 2-0
Thats 9 wins 1 lose and most of them are code S. Stephano´s ZvT lvl is as high as any other top zerg. Matter infact the only one he havent beat is MKP. And the last 2 times they meet it has been so close.
Most of them are Code S.... Sure if by most you mean 3/10 and he lost to one of those. Also how many of those are post queen buff? ZvT is only just now starting to get balanced again. Any Terrans he beat within a few weeks to a month of that buff are pretty meaningless games.
Funny you are saying its the queen buff in ZvT that helps Stephano when infact that buff havent helped Stephano one bit since he makes the same amount of queens like he did before the patch. Stephano playes a roach style in the early game. he dont play the mass queen style in the early game like every other zerg.
Stephano has played like this since Polt destroyed his normal upgraded lings/infestors style he popularised at Assemply! Stephano had to completly change his early ZvT game and it has payed off ever since.
Again if you and power-overwhelming really wanna have this discussion atleast you could stop being lazy and check stats and facts instead of just spewing nonsense.
I simply dont understand this community sometimes you got so many tools to really find out how good a player is. Matchup stats, map stats, player stat vods etc so use it
And btw its not 3/10 is 5/10 MKP,Ryung,Ganzi,Keen,Polt has all been in code s this season or last season and at the time Stephano meet them they were in Code S.
This is for me a werry close call as they are with out any doubt in my mind the best of the non Koreans right now, but since they have chosen diferent paths to compete its hard to compare the two.
Stephano does WERRY well right now, and he got the best tournament record right now.
Last GSL seson Naniwa won ALL of his matches until he lost in Ro8 against MKP who won the tournament. This GSL season Naniw didnt get the same good run but he still made it to Ro8. Won against every korean he faced except DRG who knocked Naniwa out.
As Koreans are the best overall at this game and the fact that Naniwa is playing the game at the Korean backyard on their terms and goes toe to toe with them. That males him the best of the two in my book.
On July 18 2012 14:13 power-overwhelming wrote: Naniwa. Stephano's zvp is being hyped here too much. Starcraft has 3 races last time I checked. His zvz and zvt still isn't close to code S level. If he was in GSL I doubt he'd make it out of first group stages. The not-so-famous koreans would still beat him. Only top tier korean he has beaten recently is MC and that is a zvp, not to mention their last series MC won. Naniwa has proven himself in pvp, pvt, and pvz.
The stephano hype is just fueld by foreigner hope/ anti-korean bandwagons that jump for joy at any opportunity a foreigner wins a tourny, and in this case, it's more so stephano than naniwa (since naniwa is glued to GSL)
Seriously once again people are just rabbling without checking the facts. I dont understand this is starcraft 2 we got some of the most amasing stat tools available to us so why not use it so you dont look like a fool when you try to express youself
Stephano´s last 10 ZvT matches in Lan tournament settings
Stephano vs Keen 2-0 Stephano vs Morrow 2-0 Stephano vs Puma 2-0 Stephano vs MKP 1-2 Stephano vs Rain 2-1 Stephano vs Ganzi 2-0 Stephano vs Polt 2-1 Stephano vs Rain 2-0 Stephano vs Heart 2-1 Stephano vs Ryung 2-0
Thats 9 wins 1 lose and most of them are code S. Stephano´s ZvT lvl is as high as any other top zerg. Matter infact the only one he havent beat is MKP. And the last 2 times they meet it has been so close.
Most of them are Code S.... Sure if by most you mean 3/10 and he lost to one of those. Also how many of those are post queen buff? ZvT is only just now starting to get balanced again. Any Terrans he beat within a few weeks to a month of that buff are pretty meaningless games.
Funny you are saying its the queen buff in ZvT that helps Stephano when infact that buff havent helped Stephano one bit since he makes the same amount of queens like he did before the patch. Stephano playes a roach style in the early game. he dont play the mass queen style in the early game like every other zerg.
Stephano has played like this since Polt destroyed his normal upgraded lings/infestors style he popularised at Assemply! Stephano had to completly change his early ZvT game and it has payed off ever since.
Again if you and power-overwhelming really wanna have this discussion atleast you could stop being lazy and check stats and facts instead of just spewing nonsense.
I simply dont understand this community sometimes you got so many tools to really find out how good a player is. Matchup stats, map stats, player stat vods etc so use it
And btw its not 3/10 is 5/10 MKP,Ryung,Ganzi,Keen,Polt has all been in code s this season or last season and at the time Stephano meet them they were in Code S.
That's such a way to ruin a good discussion though. I think the worst part about internet and easily obtainable information is that it shuts down so much discussion. Imagine the 18th century in an old smoky Irish bar, and there's a bunch of old men discussing the top speed of a horse, or whatever you discussed in that time. In the 21th century some asshole just flings up an iphone and tells the answer
Stephano is the obvious pick, but when Naniwa has time to prepare he can be comparable with Stephano. Stephano is the clear number 1 foreigner, then its hard to pick who comes 2,3,4 etc. I would like to see more of Nerchio i think he is really good and still underrated.
Nani all the way. He's in the midst of the koreans, using their strats, killin their builds, continiously stays within Code S and whatnot. Stephano may have downed a few Korean players on his road to the bragging right of king of NASL but Nani's defeating them on their home soil.
While Stephano is a world traveling winner, Nani remains a full time pro in the hardest league in the world season after season. He also truly puts in the practice time and is, with that work ethic, much more of a progamer than Stephano to me.
Nani gets props for actually playing in Code S, however looking purely skill-wise, it's hard to argue that Stephano isn't #1. He's just looked ridiculously good lately.
If by best you mean most skilled, then Stephano wins hands down. He is extremely talented. If by best you mean most dedicated and highest potential for success, I'd go with Naniwa. His mindset is just better than Stephano's by miles for getting results, and he has the amount of talent needed to pull it off.
naniwa can approch the stephano's level with a lot of preparation for one specific match ( thanks GSL format ) but he ISN'T consistent as Stephano in average format of international events !
Can't imagine how so many people are voting for Stephano over Naniwa.
Naniwa didn't JUST lose in the ro8 (can't believe that isn't good enough on it's own...) but he lost to MVP who was THE EVENTUAL CHAMPION. And now he just BARELY loses to DRG, and I have a strong, STRONG feeling that DRG will end up being this seasons champion as well.
On July 18 2012 17:30 Fighter wrote: Can't imagine how so many people are voting for Stephano over Naniwa.
Naniwa didn't JUST lose in the ro8 (can't believe that isn't good enough on it's own...) but he lost to MVP who was THE EVENTUAL CHAMPION. And now he just BARELY loses to DRG, and I have a strong, STRONG feeling that DRG will end up being this seasons champion as well.
So he barely lost to DRG, so he is the best non-korean? lol
On July 18 2012 17:30 Fighter wrote: Can't imagine how so many people are voting for Stephano over Naniwa.
Naniwa didn't JUST lose in the ro8 (can't believe that isn't good enough on it's own...) but he lost to MVP who was THE EVENTUAL CHAMPION. And now he just BARELY loses to DRG, and I have a strong, STRONG feeling that DRG will end up being this seasons champion as well.
can't imagine how so many people like you based their argument ONLY on the results ( " gsl code S .... blalala... lost to drg ) , you never analysis level of player IN THE GAME ??
for me i dont care about the result because gsl format is very special, but when i see a replay of stephano and a replay of naniwa i can conclude stephano has better mecanics . ( i feel sorry for you if your Knowledge of the game is too poor for that ... )
Stephano is the best !!!grown to love him. maybe when they both in Korea , we can see a show match , Last time stephano ask'ed nani he said couldnt beacuse of server lag or what ever...all i want is HEAD TO HEAD best of 5 . sup ?
either way both are animals at the game , and trying to one up each other can only push them further.
EPT
