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It's bad for the players but I don't mind it that much as a spectator. We'll see better SC2 games once the switch completely.
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It does make it difficult for the players. But I've been a fan of bw and sc2 and having a league that allows me to watch both and have both games matter is really exciting from a specator point of view 
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I bet many will vote for "Kill that abomination with fire" just because of the way it´s put in words
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I don't like it, play either BW or SC2.
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Last time I can think of a hybrid league, it was called CGS, and it was horrible.
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I've only played SC2 and I'm loving it. The commentator Sayle is really good at explaining the BroodWar stuffs for somebody who's never played it. I've tried a couple of times to tune into BroodWar streams previously and it isn't fun when I've no clue about what's going on. So for me, this is perfect. Can watch sc2 on the same time as I learn about its precursor.
On the other hand, I can understand how some people would hate this. If I wasn't so curious about bw, I'd probably also want them to go all-in on 1 game rather than being meh at both.
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KILL IT. The quality of the games have been awful, and I can't imagine the amount of stress the players are going through.
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It's like watching diamond players with high masters - gm micro... so it is only good for transition.... sad to see BW go... you will always be in my heart </3
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the ace game being sc2 is a bit wierd, but its a cool idea.
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sc2 game are pretty bad, and you can sense the lack of practise in the bw games. We should give it some time before judging tho, it just started, and team are pretty much still trying to find the perfect balance
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I was very skeptical at first but I love it. It's going to be so fun watching these players grow into incredible Sc2 players. I think it's awesome to watch these players have incredible mechanics and micro, but terrible game sense. It makes the games really interesting right now and the process of watching them grow will be fun.
Plus I never watched Brood War, so I'm having a blast learning about why everyone loved BW so much.
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It's really great for spectators. As a spectator, I would vote for "Great, I'm all for it." From a wider perspective that considers the players and the state of the scene as a whole, I'd call it a necessary transition. Sucks to have to practice two games at once, and as we get deeper into the season game quality is going to start to decline.
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BW ran its course, time for a new, better game
User was warned for this post
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this league has produced almost nothing but the worst games in both games in years. end the suffering. end proleague
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I just think it's extremely hard on the players to be able to practice for both games with such high expectations for success ni both games.
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Having players practice for both games is ridiculously stupid. They should have left the team a free choice who was gonna play BW and who was gonna play SC2. Of course they don't want that, so we're left with this trainwreck.
On May 23 2012 04:38 Uni1987 wrote:BW ran its course, time for a new, better game
Don't start this shit.
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It's a big clusterfuck right now, but hopefully they can figure something better out in the near future.
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I like the idea of both games in Proleague while BW is still around, but having the BW players who are trying to switch play both games at the the same time is really fucking stupid.
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On May 23 2012 04:56 Spekulatius wrote:Having players practice for both games is ridiculously stupid. They should have left the team a free choice who was gonna play BW and who was gonna play SC2. Of course they don't want that, so we're left with this trainwreck. Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 04:38 Uni1987 wrote:BW ran its course, time for a new, better game Don't start this shit.
In the BW forums, it's the reverse non-stop, and no-one tells them to shut up. Let people flaunt their opinions.
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It's horrible, and I can't believe that anyone would support this idea, be it sponsors, players, fans, etc. Either keep BW and SC2 separate, or full on transition to SC2. Having this mix only lowers the quality of games. I watched the first night of this new proleague, and it was terrible to see. As a BW fan, the games were sloppy and not even near the quality of the games that took place this past proleague season. As a SC2 fan, it was like watching GSL season 1 all over again. So yes....
Kill that abomination with fire
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kill it pleaseeeeee mixing those two up makes the whole thing bad T.T
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On May 23 2012 06:14 INTOtheVOID wrote:
It's horrible, and I can't believe that anyone would support this idea, be it sponsors, players, fans, etc. Either keep BW and SC2 separate, or full on transition to SC2. Having this mix only lowers the quality of games. I watched the first night of this new proleague, and it was terrible to see. As a BW fan, the games were sloppy and not even near the quality of the games that took place this past proleague season. As a SC2 fan, it was like watching GSL season 1 all over again. So yes....
Kill that abomination with fire
Its actually worse than GSL season 1, because as fans we've got used to Sc2 getting close (ish) to brood war and often much more refined play. As we know these players could play so much better and are now used to better its even worse IMO.
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It's OK, but it would have worked much better to have the Game 7 ace match in BW.
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Voted kill it but now when i think about it I'm actually really curious about how well flash will do in like 6 months
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I am a SC2 fan, but it feels very strange to me to mix both games in the same league. Let BW players play BW as long as they want to and as long as people want to watch. It's sad to see the the players being forced to play a very different game.
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On May 23 2012 03:42 ZergMaestro wrote:
the ace game being sc2 is a bit wierd, but its a cool idea.
Yeah. you would figure you want to slowly phase in SC2.Then again, it might accelerate the process.
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Mixed Proleague is awful. You get bad BW games that nobody really wants to watch, and even worse SC2 games that nobody really wants to watch.
It's really the worst of both worlds.
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On May 23 2012 07:05 Azoimide wrote:
Voted kill it but now when i think about it I'm actually really curious about how well flash will do in like 6 months
Since PL will most likely transition 100 % to SC2 after this season, I think Flash is gonna do very well as he will be able to focus completely on one game.
On topic: I accidentally voted "it's a necessary transition" but I really do not like the format. I have mostly been involved in SC2 but I have watched a fair share of BW as well (Thanks to Sayle's rebroadcasts. I love you Sayle). However, the level of play in the SC2 matches are of an extremely low level compared to the GSL players, and the quality of the BW games suffer as well. You see good BW players make sloppy mistakes and the SC2 matches are just filled with strategic faults as well.
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as a spectator i find it very entertaining, but i can see how it would be unpopular with players.
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I've only watched a couple of BW tournaments and even I can tell the quality of games has dropped off. They should have done something like an all-star showmatch for BW and then just made the league SC2.
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When rumours of Sc2 being mixed in the Proleague surfaced, they were dismissed out of hand because everyone said that the games would be so bad that all fans would run away in terror. When the rumours turned into reality, our reactions were exactly the same: the format is bad for everyone, period. Bad for the pros, bad for coaches, bad for broadcasters and bad for the fans.We've been getting mediocre at best bw games for the whole SKPlanet S1 back when 'practicing sc2' was a running joke/excuse for losing. Now it is no joke. Practicing for both games is a strain and stress that progamers don't need.
Audience hates it (see turnout of proleague vs starleague). We hate it. SC2 fans hate it/ignore it because the game quality is probably as bad as bw. We asked for bw to at least go with dignity. We were denied 
Kill it with fire.
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Haha I love the poll options 
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Amusing to see that the poll is 70% neutral or positive, but the people who are loud enough to be crying in this thread have made the comments 90% kill it with fire.
Seems to me like a bad case of Apple Mac syndrome. A small but vocal minority making stupid decisions and comments while shouting three times as loudly and frequently as everyone else. End result? Everyone thinks there are more people like that than there actually are.
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I chose "Not so hot, but it's a necessary transition.step." I think it would have been too harsh to want it to burn to the ground but I don't think it's a good idea.
For me, the Brood War games have been questionable because I am not used to the dated graphics and different units. SC2 on the other hand just feels less exciting than watching even master level players duke it out.
However, I think one game or the other should be picked exclusively. This is StarCraft, not chess boxing we're talking about. And if players have to practice two games simultaneously then understandably they are going to decline in both games.
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In the noble words of Toby:
Damn it to hell!!
The quality of the BW games is awful, and the sc2 games are even worse, if you want to switch from BW to sc2, then do it, don't just mix them up like this.
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Time to end BW once and for all!
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I don't know, it's just that personally for me watching both games doesn't feel right, I can't understand BW anymore and it doesn't appeal to me anymore, SC2 games are bad, that's understandable but still it's no fun.
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It's an abomination, and extremely unfair to the players, especially those still in the OSL.
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practice 2 diferent games, be bad at both.... stick with one please i cant enjoy sc2 games cause they are relative low level and our BW pros are gona start droping the ball cause they must practice for sc2 too now
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I think the mixed method is awesome. I never watched brood war, and I would not have watched any games without this format. Muta micro was so much more interesting in brood war.
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On May 23 2012 05:17 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 04:56 Spekulatius wrote:Having players practice for both games is ridiculously stupid. They should have left the team a free choice who was gonna play BW and who was gonna play SC2. Of course they don't want that, so we're left with this trainwreck. On May 23 2012 04:38 Uni1987 wrote:BW ran its course, time for a new, better game Don't start this shit. In the BW forums, it's the reverse non-stop, and no-one tells them to shut up. Let people flaunt their opinions.
At the end of the day, SC2 fans still have their game. BW fans don't. Have some compassion.
I'm not saying any side can't have their opinion about which game is better, but one of the two sides has its game disappearing and does not need people to tell them their game has been there for a while and now deserves to disappear.
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I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game!
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I think it's a necessary transition model. The novelty value of BW pros playing SC2 is fun to me for a season, which is what its about in the end. I'm really wondering what will happen once they've caught up to GSL standards.
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On May 23 2012 17:34 MadNeSs wrote:
I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game!
If there it wasn't for that match fixing scandal, and a few IP rights lawsuits, I am almost sure sponsors would have still been really interested in BW and the switch wouldn't have been inevitable as it is today.
And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it.
I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you.
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On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 17:34 MadNeSs wrote:
I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game! If there it wasn't for that match fixing scandal, and a few IP rights lawsuits, I am almost sure sponsors would have still been really interested in BW and the switch wouldn't have been inevitable as it is today. And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it. I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you.
Sometimes you need to be very direct for people to completely understand. And if you read past the tl:dr, you'd see that I've been very polite in my post.
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On May 23 2012 18:14 MadNeSs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 17:34 MadNeSs wrote:
I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game! If there it wasn't for that match fixing scandal, and a few IP rights lawsuits, I am almost sure sponsors would have still been really interested in BW and the switch wouldn't have been inevitable as it is today. And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it. I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you. Sometimes you need to be very direct for people to completely understand. And if you read past the tl:dr, you'd see that I've been very polite in my post.
I read the whole post, and I absolutely don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to add an irritating tl;dr.
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On May 23 2012 18:22 endy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 18:14 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 17:34 MadNeSs wrote:
I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game! If there it wasn't for that match fixing scandal, and a few IP rights lawsuits, I am almost sure sponsors would have still been really interested in BW and the switch wouldn't have been inevitable as it is today. And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it. I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you. Sometimes you need to be very direct for people to completely understand. And if you read past the tl:dr, you'd see that I've been very polite in my post. I read the whole post, and I absolutely don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to add an irritating tl;dr.
I just wanted peoples attention, since people always read the tl:dr before deciding to read the whole thing.
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On May 23 2012 18:25 MadNeSs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 18:22 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 18:14 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 17:34 MadNeSs wrote:
I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game! If there it wasn't for that match fixing scandal, and a few IP rights lawsuits, I am almost sure sponsors would have still been really interested in BW and the switch wouldn't have been inevitable as it is today. And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it. I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you. Sometimes you need to be very direct for people to completely understand. And if you read past the tl:dr, you'd see that I've been very polite in my post. I read the whole post, and I absolutely don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to add an irritating tl;dr. I just wanted peoples attention.
What a good reason.
This is team liquid, there never is a good reason to add a tldr imho.
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As a SC2 fan I don't like it. Because the players are forced to train for two games and because they haven't been training for SC2 that long the SC2 games are generaly bad. BW players don't have to "omg its X playing!" factor for me so the games have been very boring for me.
I guess that for BW fans it isn't great either. I think it would have been better to just skip a proleague and make the next one all SC2.
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On May 23 2012 18:26 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 18:25 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 18:22 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 18:14 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 17:34 MadNeSs wrote:
I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game! If there it wasn't for that match fixing scandal, and a few IP rights lawsuits, I am almost sure sponsors would have still been really interested in BW and the switch wouldn't have been inevitable as it is today. And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it. I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you. Sometimes you need to be very direct for people to completely understand. And if you read past the tl:dr, you'd see that I've been very polite in my post. I read the whole post, and I absolutely don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to add an irritating tl;dr. I just wanted peoples attention. What a good reason. This is team liquid, there never is a good reason to add a tldr imho.
whatever, TL.net is different now than it was just 2 years ago.
Also you only find it annoying, because you cant handle the harsh truth, that bw is dead, and will be dead forever.
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I think they should remove SC2, because SC2 has so many tournaments and no one really cares about it. BW only has PL and OSL (and ISL if you count foreigner events), so better let SC2 be SC2 and BW be BW.
Broodwar for life :D
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On May 23 2012 18:31 MadNeSs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 18:26 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 23 2012 18:25 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 18:22 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 18:14 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 17:34 MadNeSs wrote:
I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game! If there it wasn't for that match fixing scandal, and a few IP rights lawsuits, I am almost sure sponsors would have still been really interested in BW and the switch wouldn't have been inevitable as it is today. And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it. I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you. Sometimes you need to be very direct for people to completely understand. And if you read past the tl:dr, you'd see that I've been very polite in my post. I read the whole post, and I absolutely don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to add an irritating tl;dr. I just wanted peoples attention. What a good reason. This is team liquid, there never is a good reason to add a tldr imho. whatever, TL.net is different now than it was just 2 years ago. Also you only find it annoying, because you cant handle the harsh truth, that bw is dead, and will be dead forever.
Your attitude isn't making it a better place that's for sure.
As for your formidable edit, I must ask what the hell you know about me and bw ? Classy in any case.
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On May 23 2012 18:39 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 18:31 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 18:26 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 23 2012 18:25 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 18:22 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 18:14 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 17:34 MadNeSs wrote:
I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game! If there it wasn't for that match fixing scandal, and a few IP rights lawsuits, I am almost sure sponsors would have still been really interested in BW and the switch wouldn't have been inevitable as it is today. And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it. I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you. Sometimes you need to be very direct for people to completely understand. And if you read past the tl:dr, you'd see that I've been very polite in my post. I read the whole post, and I absolutely don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to add an irritating tl;dr. I just wanted peoples attention. What a good reason. This is team liquid, there never is a good reason to add a tldr imho. whatever, TL.net is different now than it was just 2 years ago. Also you only find it annoying, because you cant handle the harsh truth, that bw is dead, and will be dead forever. Your attitude isn't making it a better place that's for sure. As for your formidable edit, I must ask what the hell you know about me and bw ? Classy in any case.
I've followed bw since late 2006, that's what the hell I know about bw.
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On May 23 2012 18:44 MadNeSs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 18:39 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 23 2012 18:31 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 18:26 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 23 2012 18:25 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 18:22 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 18:14 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 17:34 MadNeSs wrote:
I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game! If there it wasn't for that match fixing scandal, and a few IP rights lawsuits, I am almost sure sponsors would have still been really interested in BW and the switch wouldn't have been inevitable as it is today. And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it. I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you. Sometimes you need to be very direct for people to completely understand. And if you read past the tl:dr, you'd see that I've been very polite in my post. I read the whole post, and I absolutely don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to add an irritating tl;dr. I just wanted peoples attention. What a good reason. This is team liquid, there never is a good reason to add a tldr imho. whatever, TL.net is different now than it was just 2 years ago. Also you only find it annoying, because you cant handle the harsh truth, that bw is dead, and will be dead forever. Your attitude isn't making it a better place that's for sure. As for your formidable edit, I must ask what the hell you know about me and bw ? Classy in any case. I've followed bw since late 2006, that's what the hell I know about bw.
I said about "me and bw", referencing the fact that bw would be dead and that i wouldn't be able to handle the truth.
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On May 23 2012 18:49 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 18:44 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 18:39 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 23 2012 18:31 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 18:26 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 23 2012 18:25 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 18:22 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 18:14 MadNeSs wrote:On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:On May 23 2012 17:34 MadNeSs wrote:
I really hate it tbh. I understand that it's hard for them to just give up bw just like that, from one day to another. But I think htat it's pretty stupid that they play bw/sc2 50/50, they should just play bw 90/10%, or just go pure sc2 if you ask me. The players are really bad at sc2 atm, so it's kinda sad and pathetic to watch most of the sc2 games atm tbh. And the people who like to watch bw doesnt care that much about sc2, and same goes for the sc2 people. And nobody's getting shown how sc2 really is based on the way that the players kespa team players play so far. I think that it's really stupid that they play a hybrid league, instead of just going pure sc2.
As an ex bw follower, who practically stopped watching bw, when sc2 (yes, sadly I did, but bw wasnt very interesting anymore anyways to me) was released, when I turn on pl, the games I actually enjoy the most are the bw ones, and then you get to wat 3 sc2 games, that noone really cares about, and the play is pathetic, it's just sad tbh. They should just go 90/10% bw as I said before or 100%, the way they do it now is just stupid - Why can't the bw people not just give up bwm why do they need to be nurtured (shitty word) for 5 months with having 50/50 bw/sc2 games, when noone really cares much about either since there's both at once.
To the bw people, you gotta get over the fact that bw is dead we all knew deep within that bw wouldnt live forever, hence it is an video game, and there will always come newer games, and new sequals for every game. And usually games wont last more that even 5 years (it's incredible that bw has even had such a huge scene for 10+ years), with all the amazing things that has happened in that game, from boxers tank dropship micro, to iloveoov's insane macro, to Saviors amazing strategic play and godly defiler use and to the pure mastery mechanically masterminds in Flash and Jaedong. It was some of the greatest years, but now it's over, and now there's a new game in sc2, and dont worry I'm sure that we'll see alot of amazing stuff in this game in the near future too. The game is really new, and the players have only touched the surface of the game so far, we have far from seen what players capable of doing with this game yet. So embrace the new game, it's an awesome game, and it shows some amazing games too.
tl:dr
BW is dead, get over it, now sc2 will take over, but dont worry, it's an awesome game! If there it wasn't for that match fixing scandal, and a few IP rights lawsuits, I am almost sure sponsors would have still been really interested in BW and the switch wouldn't have been inevitable as it is today. And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it. I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you. Sometimes you need to be very direct for people to completely understand. And if you read past the tl:dr, you'd see that I've been very polite in my post. I read the whole post, and I absolutely don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to add an irritating tl;dr. I just wanted peoples attention. What a good reason. This is team liquid, there never is a good reason to add a tldr imho. whatever, TL.net is different now than it was just 2 years ago. Also you only find it annoying, because you cant handle the harsh truth, that bw is dead, and will be dead forever. Your attitude isn't making it a better place that's for sure. As for your formidable edit, I must ask what the hell you know about me and bw ? Classy in any case. I've followed bw since late 2006, that's what the hell I know about bw. I said about "me and bw", referencing the fact that bw would be dead and that i wouldn't be able to handle the truth.
You're just a bitter bw fan, who cant let go of the game - Why am I even argueing with you?
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On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:
And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it.
I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you.
Its a game. Not a person. Dear jesus. Are you even reading what you're saying?
Its. A. Game.
A good one, that has lasted a long time, but a game.
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I don't like it.
One: it's to stressful for the players
Two: I never liked the SKP for the absence of decent English commentary
Three: the quality of the SC2-games aren't what they should be.
It would be better if there was a last BW-season and then give the KesPa-teams some time for a transition.
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There's no option that I really like, the neutral one is close, but I don't feel it's a 'necessary' step per se.
Being a long time BW casual player and more recently a SC2 player, I personally feel that this puts far too much emphasis on the SC2 games. I would have preferred it to be done in a slower fashion, and not have the transition so jarring. It puts far too much strain on the players. Not to mention teams are pretty much not allowed to have snipers for SC2 if they so desired...
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It pretty much reduces the skill level of either game. I don't think I'm going to watch this season... as the first day was pretty meh.
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I never followed broodwar. I'm one of those starcraft newbs. But I respect and understand what broodwar did for eSports and thus I think it's not getting the respect it should have. Let it end in a blaze of glory not like this.
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Norway25712 Posts
Let's see... Bad SC2 games in bad quality, and BW games that are often very lacking due to players not focusing on a single game.
Kill it.
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Broodwar deserved to die decently. With this format I only see a long and painful end for this awesome game.
I have followed both BroodWar and the Starcraft2, and from what I have seen of this hybrid, both games matches ends up being terrible to watch. And it's not good for the players neither.
Kill this abomination with fire !
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never played broodwar and never bothered watching it but the sc2 games are just atrocious. IMO they should either keep a bw league or just run one final league and give bw a worthy exit and subsequently give their players time to play and adjust to sc2.
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Motive bonjwa!
The goal is to transition Korean BW fans into understanding SC2. Problem is I don't think this format is going to accomplish that goal. The players/coaches/observers/casters are still learning and just watching on stream it doesn't feel like the crowd's going for it.
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On May 24 2012 01:06 deo1 wrote:
Motive bonjwa!
The goal is to transition Korean BW fans into understanding SC2. Problem is I don't think this format is going to accomplish that goal. The players/coaches/observers/casters are still learning and just watching on stream it doesn't feel like the crowd's going for it.
You couldn't get a much worse introduction tbh. They should have made a deal with GOM to have GSL and Proleague run in the same venue for a season.
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On May 23 2012 19:08 GuitarBizarre wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:
And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it.
I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you.
Its a game. Not a person. Dear jesus. Are you even reading what you're saying? Its. A. Game. A good one, that has lasted a long time, but a game.
For some of us it was more than a game. It was a sport, a friend who was there when we needed him.
The death of BW marks the death of the only true E-sports. What we have today is competitive gaming.
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It has novelty value for a one time deal type of thing. I think it's alright as a transition phase, even if it does put pressure on the players. I only think that's temporary though. I imagine once the BW OSL ends and OGN starts up it's SC2 league all teams will most likely practice SC2 exclusively. The SC2 games will only get better over time and well, the BW games being great isn't really the purpose of the season so yeah they'll gradually decline.
I guess if it's really giving players a hard time by mid season after the last BW OSL (if it's the last) KeSPA might change it to full on SC2. By then the BW fans should already be acquainted with SC2 and that was kind of the point of this hybrid season in the first place.
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Voted "Kill that abomination with fire".
Was hesitating with "Not so hot, but it's a necessary transition.step."
I do not think it's a necessary transition, i would have loved to watch broodwar for the next 20 years and a 100% broodwar league.
I know the transition will happen one day but for me it's not necessary and not something i'm eager to see.
I love starcraft2 and i love broodwar, i'm just still so sad to see bw starting to disappear
On the other hand i'm pretty excited about flash and jaedong but they both said it was really hard to play both games and so we all know what it means.. Soon enough they'll only play one game, the one which still has sponsors.
So what if jaedong suck at starcraft2 ? I can't believe this will happen but what if ? No more jaedong
And that makes me a sad puppy.
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It's really awful. I've decided to tune out during the sc2 games, as much as I like the players, I really don't care about seeing them play poorly at a game they are not that amazing at. Some of the english commentators are really bad as well, I tried listening into them and not only did *some* of them make BW seem like a old shitty game they just wished would go away, but just couldn't even comment on it correctly, saying things that were just wrong. It really left a bad impression on me.
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A lot of folks are quite gung-ho against this.
But they're missing out on the fact that this is a step forward. It is difficult, with growing pangs, but I dont buy that it is 'unfair' for the professional players. They all have to do this. Since the competition is decided by competing against other players, they are on a 'fair' level field.
Starcraft 2 adds another dimension into the tournament, especially in team leagues. Now, it's not just between picking your best TvT'er, best TvP'er.. et al. but also your best SC2 player in the corresponding matchups.
This hybrid format also protects the BW players. If the prize pool was divided between BW and SC2 and held as two consecutive tourneys (one for BW, one for SC2); the current SC2 pros could join the SC2 one and take away a chunk of the prize pool. The fact that BW is mixed with SC2 locks out the current SC2 pros (ala GSL), who don't have nearly the same level in BW.
Now I don't understand the system 100%. Maybe GSL competitors would not be allowed to play in a distinct SC2 league on pro league. But I just can't see how they could justify doing that - legally or otherwise. Get competitors to sign a type of non-compete that prevents them from playing in other tourneys? That would completely infringe on the players, and create a rift between SC2 and BW on the management level. GSL would be pissed off, GSL team managers would be pissed off. It would set a precedent of hostility rather than co-operation.
While I'm all for competition, currently, SC2 and BW both can't survive a war against eachother.
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I don't like the combination, I wish there was just two seperate leagues and players could compete in both if they so choose to.
But it has gotten me to watch BW so I guess that's a good thing, Although I still don't know enough to find it as exciting as I do sc2, but I think that'll improve in time.
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What I like about it is that it might help grow the popularity of sc2 in Korea among the BW fans.
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Im not a fan its a nessecary evil. This hybrid forces bad SC2 games which I expected, but also bad BW games. TT_TT
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I personally think it's a horrible idea. Making progamers focus on both games will result in both games being played on a shit level.
Maybe make 1 season BW, 1 season SC2? Or make separate teams/matches for each game, just show them like they're doing right now?
Either way, it's probably necessary, but they sure chose the WORST method possible to bridge the gap.
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On May 24 2012 01:23 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 19:08 GuitarBizarre wrote:On May 23 2012 17:41 endy wrote:
And by the way, it's really not respectful to say "BW is dead get over it". You can say something like that to someone who broke up with his girlfriend after a few months, because he can find a new one, probably a better one. But in this situation it's more like your wife of 12 years just died in a car accident and you ask us to get over it.
I'm really trying my best to stay polite with you.
Its a game. Not a person. Dear jesus. Are you even reading what you're saying? Its. A. Game. A good one, that has lasted a long time, but a game. For some of us it was more than a game. It was a sport, a friend who was there when we needed him. The death of BW marks the death of the only true E-sports. What we have today is competitive gaming.
You're comparing the changing face of a hobby to the death of someones WIFE OF TWELVE YEARS.
That isn't even just hyperbolic or excessive, its so much so those things, that the comparison is rendered entirely meaningless. There isn't a shred of similarity between the two, your comparison is so extreme.
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Not a fan of it at all. These guys are not good at SC2 and I have no patience to sit through horrible StarCraft just because some marketer thought it would be good to trick the fans into watching SC2. Whether it is BW or SC2, the main reason I like esports is because I want to watch the best players in the world. Each game is a sport of its own with its own top performers and that is who I want to see in tournaments.
I understand why it is happening, but it's not for me.
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Its just horrible. They are only doing it for the sponsors and fans. Its basically just a marketing ploy.
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Kill it with fire and watch it burn.
You either do all SC2, or you do all BW. Look at the issues Stork brought up - Kespa half-assing their commitment to BW. Totally unacceptable. Having people train for two different games in the same league?! We're not running a biathlon here, or some kind of medley relay.
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It's a necessary step imo, BW has been around for 10 years I can understand why fans and players would need a last season before switching to SC2 for good.
It's the end of an era for them, and e-sport.
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The thing about it is even if it was an SC2 only league, the games would still be bad coming from a lot of players given that there are still some of them playing in OSL.
One thing I find cool though is how the teams switch the players between games. It was kind of funny seeing motive look like probably the best KeSPA sc2 toss right now, and then play like crap in his BW game. But at the same time, at least we got to see them play more BW games.
And it is pretty cool to see how rapidly these guys are improving. When you consider the fact that most of them have only been playing sc2 for 2 months (going by the JD/Bisu interview) it seems remarkable that they are playing as well as they are.
JD and Flash's SC2 games were pretty embarassing though...
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Didn't get into brood war, and putting it next to starcraft 2 is just making it less appealing. They just need to give it the proper send off.
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I think it´s funny and interesting to watch, but that emphazis on sc2 (Ace match) is too much, since the actual quality of sc2-games is not even top ladder... But I enjoy it anyways
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I can understand why Kespa did it this way but it's not great for the players or viewers. The players have to split their time between two games so don't excel at either which makes the viewing experience worse. A better solution would have been to keep this season BW and change fully next season announcing that when they did. Also a longer break between season 2 & 3 would have given the players a decent chance to transition. However, this could have gone a lot worse and this seasons PL has been enjoyable so far.
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On May 24 2012 04:06 plogamer wrote:
A lot of folks are quite gung-ho against this.
But they're missing out on the fact that this is a step forward. It is difficult, with growing pangs, but I dont buy that it is 'unfair' for the professional players. They all have to do this. Since the competition is decided by competing against other players, they are on a 'fair' level field.
Starcraft 2 adds another dimension into the tournament, especially in team leagues. Now, it's not just between picking your best TvT'er, best TvP'er.. et al. but also your best SC2 player in the corresponding matchups.
This hybrid format also protects the BW players. If the prize pool was divided between BW and SC2 and held as two consecutive tourneys (one for BW, one for SC2); the current SC2 pros could join the SC2 one and take away a chunk of the prize pool. The fact that BW is mixed with SC2 locks out the current SC2 pros (ala GSL), who don't have nearly the same level in BW.
Now I don't understand the system 100%. Maybe GSL competitors would not be allowed to play in a distinct SC2 league on pro league. But I just can't see how they could justify doing that - legally or otherwise. Get competitors to sign a type of non-compete that prevents them from playing in other tourneys? That would completely infringe on the players, and create a rift between SC2 and BW on the management level. GSL would be pissed off, GSL team managers would be pissed off. It would set a precedent of hostility rather than co-operation.
While I'm all for competition, currently, SC2 and BW both can't survive a war against eachother.
It is unfair for pro players because you can't possibly expect them to become as good or catch up to players in the GSL or even Code B SC2 pro players with the way it is. It doesn't matter if Flash is a superhuman, if he had to play SC2 and BW at the same time for the rest of his career, he would never be able to catch up to someone like Mvp. Even if he did play SC2 completely and fully switched over, just the fact that most of the pro players for SC2 have been playing for 2 years and have a much better understanding of that game's metagame makes it a lot harder for BW players to learn. I can't imagine how stressful it would be as a pro player to have to learn a new game as fast as you can while also trying to perform as well as you can in BW.
The only reason they 'have' to do this is because KeSPA says they 'have' to do this. There's no real reason besides trying to get hardcore BW fans (there are a lot in Korea) to watch SC2 because their heros are playing it now. In fact the best possible thing for the players would be to have a final Proleague and Starleague, then have maybe a 2 month break for them to learn SC2, then start fully switching over to SC2 and start thinking about sending KeSPA players to GSL when they get good enough.
Also current SC2 players would not be able to join. Even former KeSPA players can't join a KeSPA tournament. JulyZerg for example, after leaving BW is considered an amateur at BW by KeSPA and he isn't allowed to play BW for a min of 3 years (not that it matters now...). KeSPA is VERY strict about the way players are scheduled to play and what they can do. The BW pros are basically at the whims of their KeSPA overlords, which was fine when they were playing BW for years but forcing them to suddenly have to play two games is just unfair and it's clearly being done only for the money.
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i like brood war and i like sc 2 however i don't follow brood war nearly as much as i used to. For me the biggest problem is the fact that the players have to practice for both games and i don't like that. i feel bad for the still die hard bw fans but i am really siked to see what the dong and flash can do when they practice sc2 full time. ^_^
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What I am wondering though is how many teams or players are only training in SC2, because if I was a coach or a player and not in the OSL all I would be playing is SC2. It not only counts for only more in the Proleague, but it is what I would be switching over to anyways so why not try to get to the highest level of skill that I could as quickly as possible
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They're just hurting fans of each game continuing to broadcast like this. I might tune in every now and then if I hear a big name playing, but it's not to view high level bw or sc2. It's to giggle at bw playing sc2. I understand the business perspective of introducing bw fans in Korea to sc2 using their current stars to make it easier. It's a nice move from that perspective-they might lose less to LoL/dota2 with fans looking for a new game to follow.
In the meantime, their only hope of rectification is BW teams putting a big push to SC2 so the average quality of the twin broadcast rises. Sc2 fans seeing their game played well and learning bw. Bw fans seeing a good pro league start and gritting their teeth through Sc2. Still would prefer a non mixed league until they decide to end pro league.
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Extremely hard on the players, esp with those who are still in the OSL. Will be interesting to see how the seaon goes and the views vs GSL
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Kespa is making their player's lives completely miserable because they don't have the guts to either continue with BW all the way or else just switch to SC2 and face the consequences. Instead of actually making a decision and sticking by it, Kespa has created one of the absolutely worst-thought-out attempts at a "trial balloon" I've ever seen. It's simply ridiculous from a game quality standpoint, a player standpoint, a fan standpoint, or even a business standpoint. It's, frankly, completely ridiculous.
Can you guess how I voted?
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I really love mixed Proleague.
It was just necessary to happen , but I am enjoying it!
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as a spectator i love it
i would imagine that it is quite hard for the players but it's a good trasition into pure sc2
i like it
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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On May 25 2012 03:06 flamewheel wrote:
Fuck it with fire.
that sound painfull
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just a way to optimise broodwar watchers conversion to sc2 ... kill it with fire
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Never touched brood war, so I don't have the whole nostalgia thing that most other people have but I can understand how much other people love that game. If, as stork has said, the players aren't being consulted, this is just stupid. And having the sc2 ace match is just... what? I hope Kespa doesn't balls up the sc2 scene in korea has much as they seem to have done with brood war.
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It's a terrible decision that will only result in terrible games. I say this as someone who watches primarily SC2 these days.
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Either leave BW alone, or kill it completely. Stop amputating it and give us half assed games.
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On May 25 2012 06:04 a_flayer wrote:
It's a terrible decision that will only result in terrible games. I say this as someone who watches primarily SC2 these days.
That's the thing most people here seem to not get, this league is NOT meant for SC2 viewers, the level of play is just not up to our standards because those are not SC2 pros.
This format is to help SC1 fans get into SC2 by "forcing" them to at least watch a little bit of it, and maybe they'll think it's not that bad, I don't know if it'll work but that's what they're trying to accomplish, to get the SC1 crowd onboard.
If Kespa simply killed SC1 just like that those fans would be angry and the last thing they would want to do is go watch a game they consider "inferior" that none of their favourite players play, but now they'll have to take SC2 seriously because their idols are playing it in televised matches alongside SC1.
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i think this is a great idea, it will introduce a Crazy New era of sc2
flash, jaedong, bisu are gonna destroy everything
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Kill it with fire!
This is too harsh on players.
"We'll get through this, guys..."
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This hybrid league is a terrible idea that is putting BW players under tremendous stress while producing half-ass games due to players not being able to specialize. It would be one thing to have a separate BW and SC2 matches played by different players but forcing players like Jaedong do both is just too much. Also SC2 unit designs are still terribly bland compare to BW, if they wanted to transition they could just wait for HoTS to do it.
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I wish they would just totally switch. The've been stuck on sc1 for over a year too long already. Plus their play won't be as good in either field. MVP himself said it was a bad idea!
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Terrible. I have no desire to watch a hybrid. Full switch to SC2 would have been painful but way more interesting.
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seriously:
i think its better to play a hybrid league than going directly 100% into sc2.
because:
now all players have an excuse "we have to play 2 games at a time, life is so cruel, meh"
and its not a real shame to loose games, even if it myb feels bad for them.
but what if they would be playing an 100% sc2 tournament now, would that be better?
NO!
(because all the games would be low quality then. and now they can at least referr to their bw skill, even if they could "only" pull it out around 80-90%)
they would at least have to make a 1 year break for training sc2 to deliver a decent sc2 tournament. would that make sense from a sponsor point of view?
NO!
so come up with a better idea than the hybrid league. is there a better way to organize the switch which they alrdy agreed on?
only complaining about everything without giving a better solution is childish.
and no "just stick to one game" IS NOT A SOLUTION - sorry.
btw:
when my old favorite game ut99 died, it felt kinda really shitty aswell. so i know how there is a lot of frustration in the air anyway. but i dont think the hybrid league is the right valve for it. since i dont see a better way to satisfy all sides.
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On May 25 2012 17:03 Vasoline73 wrote:
Terrible. I have no desire to watch a hybrid. Full switch to SC2 would have been painful but way more interesting.
Agreed, I don't understand the reasoning behind this.
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Kill it with fire honestly.. I wish BW could go on and on but if they wanna switch then switch. Have a season off so everyone can focus 100% on SC2. Currently it's such a mess and it can't be taken seriously when they are competing in a game they haven't practice with
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Well, I like both games but I think a split league is very bad. Sure, it's a transition but the play of SC2 is really bad and some BW players have suffered.
I remember the 2v2 games of Brood War Proleague... and I didn't really like those either.
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Kill it with fire! If they (with that I mean the league organisers) want a transition, then make a smooth one.
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I wish they would have done something like this sooner, but not make players play both games. I've decided that I actually like watching Brood War, and it would be cool to have top-quality Brood War games along SC2 games. I think that could do really good things for both games. Unfortunately, this setup will be really hard on the players playing both games and the games won't be as good. And it's the end of BW T_T. I think it will still be really cool though.
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horrible, kill it with fire then pour cement on top of the ashes.
should've done one last bw league to appease fans and give players time to preapre mentally for the transition without fucking their jobs up, then switched completely to sc2.
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Its a great way for all these BW players to make a smooth run into SC2 and it will make them a stronger players
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United States655 Posts
On May 23 2012 22:54 Darkfrog wrote:
I never followed broodwar. I'm one of those starcraft newbs. But I respect and understand what broodwar did for eSports and thus I think it's not getting the respect it should have. Let it end in a blaze of glory not like this.
I am in shock and awe at a SCII fan's humility and self-awareness. Thank you. I wish there were more like you.
Kill this abomination with fire. To let BW go like this is so pathetic. It's killing the fire that started E-Sports. It's killing the passion. You can see it in the players. Maybe that's what E-Sports was. Now what we have is competitive gaming.
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EPT
