EPTwhat a monster. Do we have a count for how long someone has stayed in #1 (total) in PR? Would be fun to compare stats.
Power Rank 06/02/2011 - Page 9
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Keone
United States812 Posts
what a monster. Do we have a count for how long someone has stayed in #1 (total) in PR? Would be fun to compare stats. | ||
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jaQi
1121 Posts
On June 12 2011 23:55 Keone wrote: FLASH what a monster. Do we have a count for how long someone has stayed in #1 (total) in PR? Would be fun to compare stats. You can check it out by yourself http://www.teamliquid.net/powerrank/ have fun ^^ | ||
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
On June 12 2011 23:55 Keone wrote: FLASH what a monster. Do we have a count for how long someone has stayed in #1 (total) in PR? Would be fun to compare stats. I think this is accurate. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
edit: Hell, forget just PvT. Aside from flash, he is probably the best vT player | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
He's literally a less complex version of Skyhigh, a player that can only play a single matchup and probably doesn't have enough depth to his play to break early aggression like peak Stork can. Before shooting him as number 3, how about we wait and see if he can actually achieve some consistency, that is actually be relatively useful against protoss and zerg. | ||
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agarangu
Chile274 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On June 13 2011 01:18 hacklebeast wrote: So, I'm going to start campaigning for BeSt as #3. He is looking like his old form, and with stork slumping hard now, I think he has the best PvT out there. As long as park helps him avoid zergs for the rest of the month, he is going to end with a very impressive record. edit: Hell, forget just PvT. Aside from flash, he is probably the best vT player Lol, this isn't even close to good enough to get you #3. Beating Flash is nice but if that's the case then Reality should be up there too. Atleast reality took a game off Jaedong too. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
He hasn't shown his PvZ (which probably sucks) or his PvP yet, but we shouldn't hold that against him. Case and point: Zero last month got to 2 with ZvZ alone. We just kind of set aside his other matches, and lauded him for beating a less impressive list of opponents then Best' terrans. And is anyone else (outside of bisu and flash) looking impressive? I'd be surprised to see zero get anywhere above 8, JD and SK certainly aren't performing to their potential. The only other person I can see close is hydra, but at this moment I think best is doing better, and if things continue at this pace, he should be 3. | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
BeSt is certainly making a case for a spot on the rank, but at 7 or 8 tops. The last time he made it anywhere in an individual league was like a year and a half ago (+/- half a year, lol... my mind is fuzzy) when he was 3-0'd by Flash. Strong play for a month following a year or so of slumping doesn't move you up to 3rd. Zero, on the other hand, has (in)consistently been top 2 or 3 Zergs for a while. He's demonstrated strong play vs T and P in the past, taking out Flash and Bisu and Stork... and then he beat the best ZvZ player Jaedong in a Bo5, no less. That's why he could be put as high as #2. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On June 13 2011 03:47 hacklebeast wrote: He is 7-1 since the slump, 3-0 on the month. In that steak there were 2 flash wins, along with one over bogus, the second most impressive terran of late. He hasn't shown his PvZ (which probably sucks) or his PvP yet, but we shouldn't hold that against him. Case and point: Zero last month got to 2 with ZvZ alone. We just kind of set aside his other matches, and lauded him for beating a less impressive list of opponents then Best' terrans. And is anyone else (outside of bisu and flash) looking impressive? I'd be surprised to see zero get anywhere above 8, JD and SK certainly aren't performing to their potential. The only other person I can see close is hydra, but at this moment I think best is doing better, and if things continue at this pace, he should be 3. How can you even compare Best to Zero? Best has been doing well in his historically strongest match-up and has completely unproven PvZ and PvP right now and is coming off the worst slump in his career. The ONLY accomplishment Best has in 2011 is pulling 2 wins off Flash. Zero has been consistently one of the top 3 Zergs all year making semifinal or higher twice and then burst out with exceptional performances in his historically weakest match-up. His ZvT and ZvP were already well proven and has a total record of 10-6 against TBLS in 2011, pulling wins from each member. Compare that to Best being 9-11 in total in 2011. Best has something to prove that Zero doesn't. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On June 13 2011 05:03 ]343[ wrote: Unfortunately, I don't think there's a precedent for veteran players who have done nothing of note in years jumping as high as #3. I agree, his vT is looking pretty awesome. But he lost in Survivor to Classic and Hoejja this season... um what? Yea, that's bad, but on the other hand, he has gone undefeated vZ since  On a more serious note, everyone outside of bisu and flash has a similar loss. Jaedong lost to hero (the other hero), SK lost to sun, horang lost to grape twice, bogus lost to hoejja twice, FBH lost to perfect man, ect.Similarly, flash, hydra, zero and JD are the only people on the PR that have been making impacts on individual leagues lately, meaning that the majority of the next PR will have had little to no success in the MSL. I could see why hydra could be ahead of best, but if you don't want best in the top five, then who? and as for precedent: The last time Mind was on the PR was last month at #4. The time before that was 6-08. Edit: I don't understand why zero's weakness in ZvZ is a benefit to him. If Best's good record is a detriment, and zero's bad record is a boom, then can we just demote flash? He has a REALLY good history, so I guess that means that the MSL win doesn't mean much. Maybe we could put him in the 6-8 range? And I don't understand how anyone considers zero consistent. His 12-6 last month isn't exactly a model of consistency, and he has been know for the one of the most INconsistent players his entire career. I think your wrong about him being consistently top 3 of all zergs this year. In Jan's PR he wasn't in the top 5 of zergs, Feb he was 3rd, Mar he wasn't in the top 4, April he was 2nd, May he was 4th (not top 3) and June he was 1st. Not exactly the model of consistency. | ||
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
Meanwhile in all of these years he hasn't changed his abysmal PvZ, which he hasn't played much of to be fair, and his PvP has gotten worse, which he hasn't played all that much recently to be fair. He has basically been relegated to terran sniper role and nothing else, that's how hot he is as a player right now. When Mind got on the PR last time, I'm fairly sure he was picking up his game greatly in all matchups and was getting somewhere in individual leagues. Basically he was showing snapshots of his peak form when he was like the #1 terran that won the MSL all over again. Zero's bad ZvZ was taken into the spotlight because he managed to overcome his one weakness to get through two very good ZvZ players to get to the finals. It shows a player with a lot of potential becoming more well rounded and capable, basically he was on fire at that moment of time. He's definitely one of the top three zergs: #1 is Jaedong, #2 is probably Hydra so who is #3? Calm? s2? Soulkey? Consistency or no consistency, the kid actually gets results with some fairly good play and that's how he gets on the PR. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
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VGhost
United States3621 Posts
On June 12 2011 15:28 Lightwip wrote: If the PR was to be made now, I think it would be Flash #1 Bisu #2. Bisu's been playing well enough to win almost every game he's played and Zero really sorta blew his chance of a high placement with an awful performance in the finals. I'm admittedly biased, but ZerO's performance imo wasn't "awful" except for game 3 where he was clearly tilting hard. Game 1 he got surprised/out-thought but played reasonably well; Game 2 was a solid ol' college try but came short; Game 3 he threw away, yeah. AND, anyway, it's way too early to make a call on next month. It's been 7 days since this PR came out. In that time Bisu's beaten Flying (who is bad) and Action (who is mediocre at best, and I think he's bad). ZerO's beaten fantasy (who admittedly has TvZ issues but has more wins against Zerg (10) than either Action (8) or Flying (4) have against Protoss on the season) and lost to Flash (who is the God | ||
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
On June 13 2011 08:19 hacklebeast wrote: I think 7-1 with 2 wins over the undisputed best player is rather hot. While I do agree that Best is deserving of a position in the PR, I wouldn't give him anything above 6 so far. Granted there's still a while to go for the month so it's possible that he will start doing really well in matchups other than vT though it's currently unproven. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On June 13 2011 08:19 hacklebeast wrote: I think 7-1 with 2 wins over the undisputed best player is rather hot. A player needs more than 1 strong match to be hot unless that 1 strong match is enough to produce important results. So since you're pushing Best so hard, I guess his streak carried him into BoX stages of SL? I guess it includes playoff matches? No? Giving a high place on PR to everybody who produces a win streak in PL is ridiculous. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On June 13 2011 11:16 Mortality wrote: Giving a high place on PR to everybody who produces a win streak in PL is ridiculous. Bisu? Other than flash, who is producing inportant results this month? No SL this month, so the only inportant games are ace matches. Is there a guy out there who is winning a lot of them? | ||
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ore0z
Romania161 Posts
 ZerO, is better than doing well in your strongest matchup, Best. His PvZ being untested, and other things Mortality mentioned, doesn't warrant Best being number three.I think I should argue for ZerO's sake here too. Even though ZerO went 0-3 against  Flash, he's still 2nd place in the MSL. I think people discredits second place simply because they didn't win, despite making it to the finals.Edit: TLPD-ize | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On June 13 2011 11:48 hacklebeast wrote: Bisu? Other than flash, who is producing inportant results this month? No SL this month, so the only inportant games are ace matches. Is there a guy out there who is winning a lot of them? Except that Bisu has the highest number of wins in PL and we're nearing the end of the season. That actually IS an accomplishment worth bragging about -- not a paltry few wins racked up on one particular month. There's also his performances from the SWL playoffs and the true fact that Bisu has had bad luck recently in who he faces in tournament play. Not to mention that his actual game play is smoother than anything I've seen in any beer commercial ever. What can Best say? Regarding results... they are ALWAYS to be taken in the context of history. Someone who does well in PL this month AND has done well in past months gets precedent over someone who has nothing to his name. The only way Best can get around that is by proving himself against strong non-Terrans or by somehow playing an extra vital role in his team's performance (but do not anticipate this happening in the shadows of Bisu and Fantasy). Given Best's history, all we can say with any kind of certainty is that he's doing well in his best match. | ||
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On June 13 2011 11:48 hacklebeast wrote: Bisu? Other than flash, who is producing inportant results this month? No SL this month, so the only inportant games are ace matches. Is there a guy out there who is winning a lot of them? Except Bisu is still good at PvP, makes PvZ look like a joke which has always been a matchup protoss has struggled with, and winning the vast majority of PvT games. He's at 58 fucking wins, of course he's going to get a high ranking because you don't get that by just being good at a single matchup. Best is good at PvT macro, water is wet and the sky is blue. He's achieved nothing special besides beating Flash in a situation where Flash is likely to choose more suitable, stable builds in proleague right after his MSL finals - his PvZ is presumably still utter garbage and only capable of beating bottom ranking zergs and his PvP is only average and not good...both are probably the reason why he's never going to do anything but beat terrans who try and fight him in a macro match in proleague. Simply beating Flash once doesn't mean you're actually hot, as good Flash is. Good, his rising performance should probably deserve a low ranking in the power rank but a small streak (that isn't even particularly amazing considering its not even a double digit streak in what is essentially a single matchup) in a single matchup doesn't deserve #3. | ||
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