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On June 23 2011 01:32 Hikari wrote:
The recent victories should keep JD on PR, however his poor performance earlier this month is going to cost him some ranks.
At this point I don't think JD should drop any ranks. I don't see more than 4 people good enough to be placed higher. If the month had been reversed, and he had started with a 6 game winning streak before his losing streak I'd agree, but not as it looks now. Though preferably he should play a good Zerg and a good Protoss before the month ends, since all he's really showed is that his ZvT sure as hell isn't in a slump.
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Flash should not be number 1.
He is on a 5 game losing streak in SPL.
He has been playing poorly.
He has recently fallen into an alarming habit of not only losing to good players, but being demolished by them.
The games against Zero and Hydra were more those two folding than anything special he did.
Bisu should not be number 1.
He has gone 6-1 in PL, yes. Look at the quality of his opponents though. He went 1-1 against people who aren't rookies or complete scrubs (i.e. Tyson and Roro). He also flopped out of the OSL prelims at the expense of below-average opposition.
Jaedong shouldn't be number 1.
Despite his incredible run in the last few days, he started the month so badly that it's not even funny with the longest losing streak of his career.
So who should be number 1? Why  JangBi of course!
- In his way through qualification for the OSL, Jangbi was undefeated in the Wildcard tournament knocking out Zero and Leta in the process.
- He is undefeated in SPL this month, including taking down the PvP Bonjwa Horang2.
- His epic storming is back and more awe-inspiring than what JD, Flash and Bisu have won games with. He's been better to watch.
- If Samsung end up qualifying for playoffs, it will be almost entirely because he has lifted in round 6 so much.
Jangbi should be number one because the others don't deserve it, he has been critical to Khan's success, qualified for the OSL in style and it would be funny.
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That's a troll post, right? 
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Jangbi is definitely #4 but no higher, atleast at this point. Despite his excellent record this month and the failings of TaekLeeSang (sorry Stork  ), he needs to prove himself over a longer period or do something more exceptional than beat a few decent/good players and a bunch of scrubs, like beating an S-class player in a BoX.
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Even #4 might be high, but, I definitely seem him being worth putting on the list this month.
Regardless, top 3 is going to be kinda weird, but will still probably have to be Flash #1, and JD/Bisu a toss up for 2 and three. This is probably the only month where Flash can bomb in proleague and still be a relatively uncontroversial number one, thanks to having just won a starleague before starting this crap, and... well, JD playing mouse-only or something for the first half of this month stole his chance, and Bisu failing out of starleagues early is making him look silly at this point.
No one else is really playing well enough to challenge that top three right now though anyways, I don't think. There are plenty of great players putting on plenty of great games, but unless something has entirely escaped me, no one is on a particularly unusual tear, so
Meh. Weird month. There's a week left to maybe clear things up, I guess.
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Ya, next month Flash will not be able to ride on his historical Starleague win. He's gonna have to start delivering some S-class play again if he wants to keep the top spot. This month however belongs to him. 
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Jaedong doesn't deserve to move up. A few wins doesn't mean we can forget about his early month.
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6 game win streak, including 2 wins vs Flash, over the course of a week combined with the fact that it's fucking JD (with all his history) means that he goes up above all mere mortals IMO.
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On June 23 2011 03:14 Lightwip wrote:
Jaedong doesn't deserve to move up. A few wins doesn't mean we can forget about his early month.
So apart from Flash and Bisu, who deserves to be ahead of him? Zero who got raped by Flash and kicked out of the OSL? Hydra who's beaten mostly mediocre players and lost to Juni of all people? Best who got knocked out of the OSL in his best matchup against a mediocre player and whose only significant achievement this month is beating Flash and Bogus? Soulkey who also got knocked out of the OSL with Bogus being the only good player he's beaten?
I also think that what happens later in the month should count for more than what happened earlier in the month since that says more about his present condition.
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United States10328 Posts
On June 23 2011 02:23 DropBear wrote:Flash should not be number 1. Bisu should not be number 1. Jaedong shouldn't be number 1. So who should be number 1? Why JangBi of course!
Reminds me of that time Jangbi ACTUALLY got #1 on the PR
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Jaedong deserves to be higher then Bisu. Sorry Lightwip.
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I would love to see soo, yes an SKT zerg ^^, in the next PR, 5 game winning streak, helped SKT1 today to reverse kill and he is in the OSL, I think he deserves it.
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On June 23 2011 04:14 jaQi wrote:
I would love to see soo, yes an SKT zerg ^^, in the next PR, 5 game winning streak, helped SKT1 today to reverse kill and he is in the OSL, I think he deserves it.
SKTzerg? S2 just won his first ZvT of the season.
I don't think Flash will remain high on the PR this coming month. The Tyrant is back.
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On June 23 2011 03:14 Lightwip wrote:
Jaedong doesn't deserve to move up. A few wins doesn't mean we can forget about his early month.
His early month? Right now he sits at 6-3 on the month. He's beaten Flash 3 times. He's trashed Really, Sea, and Bogus, and seems to have gotten over the ZvZ issues that plagued him for a couple weeks. All OZ has to do to make the playoffs is keep winning - 2 of 3 might even do it - and against KHAN and STX I'd say they've got a really good shot, even if they get massacred by SKT.
I'm not sure of the ordering at the moment, but top 3 is clearly back to Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu, which means Jaedong moves up by default. You could even make a case for Jaedong #1. I don't think it's a good idea - I think it's between Flash and Bisu at the moment - but I'm going to do it, just to demonstrate. I've made the case for Jaedong. Which competitor can reasonably be called better?
Bisu - 6-1, so he's got fewer losses. But he completely failed prelims, that's not good if you want to be the best player in the world.
Flash - 9-6, MSL win + Golden Badge + tying NaDa. On the other hand, he's 0-2 on the month vs Jaedong, so putting him over Jaedong seems a little odd even if his accomplishments seem to deserve it.
ZerO - 3-4, got pounded by Flash. No.
Hydra - 5-4 this month, picked up a win against Flash, but also lost 0-3 in the MSL. Also just lost to Juni, which is ridiculous. Nowhere near Jaedong.
Movie - 5-1, lost to HiyA but that's excusable, but dropped prelims.
Jangbi - made it through the preliminaries, is 4-0 on the month... but he's been playing horribly for almost two years now, so not really even a contender yet.
That's just by way of demonstration. Like I said, I don't think Jaedong's at #1, but there's definitely an argument to put him there, and absolutely no way he's not better than #5 right now.
If I made a rank right now, it would probably be something like this:
1. Flash - Golden Badge + tying NaDa gets him #1 almost no matter what else he does this month.
2. Jaedong - only player who consistently stands a chance against Flash. Has looked shaky, especially in ZvP, but I think he's back.
3. Bisu - Bisu has easily the highest peak, and the scariest individual matchup, of anybody out there right now. Unfortunately, he lost in prelims, which is just dumb for somebody so good.
4. Movie - he's playing seriously brilliant Starcraft at the moment.
5-9. In close to this order: Horang2, Hydra, ZerO Light, firebathero
10. Jangbi
Other candidates, around 8-10: Soulkey, Bogus, RorO, Killer
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oh boy this will reach 1000 posts by the end of the month for sure
and stop saying bisu is 6-1 this month
how can he be 6-1 if he lost in preliminaries and it was a bo3,,,, logic says it should be 2 losses at minimum
and i know people tend to not add the games played in the offline preliminaries to the calculation since the majority of those are easy wins
makes it even worse to take out the losses in the calculation
anyway i'll try and stir it up a bit .... bisu should be lower than jaedong
who is 6-3 (the same if you count the loss to hyvaa )
and by making it to the round of 16 and winning 4 times vs flash 2 this month ...
i think its obvious .. bisu may have the most wins in proleague but not all those wins happened this month ...anyway that shall do the job
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Flash Movie and Jaedong are definitely top 3 material.
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On June 23 2011 07:05 Release wrote:
Flash Movie and Jaedong are definitely top 3 material.
i dont know about movie
bisu exceeds him in every aspect
and they both failed to reach the round of 24
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On June 23 2011 06:58 pvzvt wrote:
oh boy this will reach 1000 posts by the end of the month for sure
and stop saying bisu is 6-1 this month
how can he be 6-1 if he lost in preliminaries and it was a bo3,,,, logic says it should be 2 losses at minimum
and i know people tend to not add the games played in the offline preliminaries to the calculation since the majority of those are easy wins
makes it even worse to take out the losses in the calculation
anyway i'll try and stir it up a bit .... bisu should be lower than jaedong
who is 6-3 (the same if you count the loss to hyvaa )
and by making it to the round of 16 and winning 4 times vs flash 2 this month ...
i think its obvious .. bisu may have the most wins in proleague but not all those wins happened this month ...anyway that shall do the job
I'm not entirely comfortable with ignoring prelims, but there are several good reasons to do so, at least to the point of not counting games won and lost:
First, they are incredibly unpredictable when done in Bo3 bracket format, as MSL always is and OSL was done this time. Round-robin would almost always bring better results (imo) and is usually/sometimes used in OSL prelims but not this time.
Second, prelims are done very quickly, so they tend to not reflect a player's resume over the whole month. You will find that passing prelims or not is taken into consideration, but the actual game count would normally skew the picture badly.
Third, we normally don't get a good idea of who's good and who's lucky till at least the Ro16, sometimes Ro8, in the tournament season. For instance, HyuN passed prelims, and is MBC's best Zerg - but when he faced Flash and Jaedong, he didn't just lose (like ZerO), or look good but outclassed (like Hydra or Bogus), he got pasted - he only got out of prelims because his group was terrible.
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On June 23 2011 07:35 VGhost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 06:58 pvzvt wrote:
oh boy this will reach 1000 posts by the end of the month for sure
and stop saying bisu is 6-1 this month
how can he be 6-1 if he lost in preliminaries and it was a bo3,,,, logic says it should be 2 losses at minimum
and i know people tend to not add the games played in the offline preliminaries to the calculation since the majority of those are easy wins
makes it even worse to take out the losses in the calculation
anyway i'll try and stir it up a bit .... bisu should be lower than jaedong
who is 6-3 (the same if you count the loss to hyvaa )
and by making it to the round of 16 and winning 4 times vs flash 2 this month ...
i think its obvious .. bisu may have the most wins in proleague but not all those wins happened this month ...anyway that shall do the job I'm not entirely comfortable with ignoring prelims, but there are several good reasons to do so, at least to the point of not counting games won and lost: First, they are incredibly unpredictable when done in Bo3 bracket format, as MSL always is and OSL was done this time. Round-robin would almost always bring better results (imo) and is usually/sometimes used in OSL prelims but not this time. Second, prelims are done very quickly, so they tend to not reflect a player's resume over the whole month. You will find that passing prelims or not is taken into consideration, but the actual game count would normally skew the picture badly. Third, we normally don't get a good idea of who's good and who's lucky till at least the Ro16, sometimes Ro8, in the tournament season. For instance, HyuN passed prelims, and is MBC's best Zerg - but when he faced Flash and Jaedong, he didn't just lose (like ZerO), or look good but outclassed (like Hydra or Bogus), he got pasted - he only got out of prelims because his group was terrible.
i agree about the speed issue
but bo3 is pretty fair in my opinion
about the groups yes we all know luck has its factor in how far you may reach (and rarely take the gold with) but bisu's group was just as bad and it doesnt matter who is in that group its who you faced since clearly you are not playing vs all the group just the one you face (luck factor again)
i dont see the comparison were you expecting hyun to win vs flash (he faced flash and bogus)
of course not
and thats exactly what i expected from bisu vs hyvaa
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On June 23 2011 06:58 pvzvt wrote:
oh boy this will reach 1000 posts by the end of the month for sure
and stop saying bisu is 6-1 this month
how can he be 6-1 if he lost in preliminaries and it was a bo3,,,, logic says it should be 2 losses at minimum
and i know people tend to not add the games played in the offline preliminaries to the calculation since the majority of those are easy wins
makes it even worse to take out the losses in the calculation
anyway i'll try and stir it up a bit .... bisu should be lower than jaedong
who is 6-3 (the same if you count the loss to hyvaa )
and by making it to the round of 16 and winning 4 times vs flash 2 this month ...
i think its obvious .. bisu may have the most wins in proleague but not all those wins happened this month ...anyway that shall do the job
If you insist on counting the losses from the prelims, you should probably count the wins also lol...
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EPT
