EPTLately, Bisu, Best, Horang2, Movie, Soulkey have all been doing well in proleague but when was the last time they got anywhere in individual leagues? Even if it was a little underwhelming that JD lost to Zero, it's still quite an achievement to make it to the semi-finals. The fact that it was from the previous month doesn't make it irrelevant. I think that PR should reward players for showing good results in that month but it also needs to take a look at the big picture and not just completely remove a player after a bad month even though he's been one of the best players in both individual leagues and proleague since pretty much forever. Jaedong is still probably the best zerg out there, he just hasn't been as reliable and consistent this month as you'd expect him to be. Maybe when Jaedong becomes like Stork, we can talk about removing him from the PR completely.
Power Rank 06/02/2011 - Page 13
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DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
Lately, Bisu, Best, Horang2, Movie, Soulkey have all been doing well in proleague but when was the last time they got anywhere in individual leagues? Even if it was a little underwhelming that JD lost to Zero, it's still quite an achievement to make it to the semi-finals. The fact that it was from the previous month doesn't make it irrelevant. I think that PR should reward players for showing good results in that month but it also needs to take a look at the big picture and not just completely remove a player after a bad month even though he's been one of the best players in both individual leagues and proleague since pretty much forever. Jaedong is still probably the best zerg out there, he just hasn't been as reliable and consistent this month as you'd expect him to be. Maybe when Jaedong becomes like Stork, we can talk about removing him from the PR completely. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On June 16 2011 05:27 Lightwip wrote: As I said before, Jaedong deserves a "last chance" on PR for many years of good performance. Look, I agree with Lightwip! wowowow  He deserves a "grace month" with a low slot, at least; and I'm sure that with this victory over Flash he'll pick himself up again and finish off the month strong. Then he won't need "grace." | ||
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FakePlasticLove
United States357 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On June 16 2011 00:01 Soap wrote: I remember once Flash lost something like 6 ace matches in a row and Plexa still had him as 1st... here we have a golden mouse holder on a 3 win streak against the best player in the world and we say to drop him off the ranking.  When that incident happened with Flash the situation was that Flash had just 3-0 annihilated Jaedong with ease literally 1 day before the start of the PR period. The only two players who were remotely close to Flash at that time were Effort (who had just won 3-2 over Flash) and Jaedong (who had just been sent packing with a 3-0). Effort had a similar month to Flash and while Jaedong had better results that month, PR is not, was not, and The situation with Jaedong is this: during the PDPod MSL season JD was unable to beat any player with S-class vZ, JD struggled through most of the SWL season, finally seeming to find himself near the end, started looking good again, and now has crashed. The talk of dropping JD off the ranking completely is premature, but unless JD starts obliterating everyone for the rest of the month, I don't see him making the top half of the ranking. | ||
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
On June 16 2011 00:34 Soap wrote: Today is June 15. Could you please provide your sources of clarivoyance along with a few results of lotteries?  I was not talking about the current PR.In regards to the first point. Jaedong was losing every game he played which began the whole possibly dropping him from the PR. Not everyone was talking about definitely dropping him. And it still remains a completely valid point until yesterday, losing every/vast majority of his games is not the status of someone on the PR. Though I will agree that it's a rather moot point now since he is starting to get back into form after yesterday's game And on the second point, Mortaility already debunked why bringing up the past example is illogical. Granted flamewheel likes Dong so he would probably have given him a 9th/10th spot if he continued his little slump but that's beside the point now. The point is that before Jaedong beat Flash, he did not have the aura of the Tyrant. He did not seem very threatening for the Zerg Throne-holder and truth be told, there were a couple other zergs that I'd say were more 'powerful'. | ||
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Soap
Brazil1546 Posts
It's only a 1-3 ZvZ loss on MSL semifinals (see, there's going to be at least six guys on the ranking that not even got there), and 1-3 on PL with ZvZ twice and the win against the recent MSL champion. For anyone else this would be solid A-class performance. Of course we expect more from Jaedong, but that shouldn't work against him. On June 16 2011 10:18 Mortality wrote: The talk of dropping JD off the ranking completely is premature, but unless JD starts obliterating everyone for the rest of the month, I don't see him making the top half f the ranking. I agree with this. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
When Reality makes a critical mistake to lose the 3rd game and he gets worked by Zero I like to think the weight given to his semi-finals position would not be so heavily emphasized. If this was just a weighting of statistics game, you could just go into the TLPD and run an algorithm of all of the games played in the month. But it isn't, which is why Best is not going to be #3 and Jaehoon isn't going to be #2. Jaedong hasn't looked good in a lot of his recent games so unless he demolishes everyone I personally can't see him being on the list since there are a lot of proleague heavy players doing exceptionally well. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
[Edit: I should clarify that the reason such streaks are not common place is several reasons, just to name a couple of them: 1. metagame is in constant change and 2. in general, the more you win the harder the opponent you will be asked to face.] Want to talk results? Jaedong, for the second season in a row, dropped out at the semifinals. Reaching the semifinals for 2 seasons in a row is solid A-class by any standards. And despite his current troubles he is #3 on the win board in team league with 6 wins separating him from #4. #1 ZvT and ZvP unquestionably, for the first time in his career showing vulnerability in ZvZ (#3 by ELO?!). His recent win puts him back over 2200 ELO. And want to talk about quality of play? Try putting your finger on exactly what the problem is. It's definitely not mechanics. It's not strategy -- not really -- and it's not tactics. If I had to put my finger on it I would say that Jaedong has been having trouble controlling the flow of the game. In Starcraft you always want to have it so the other player is playing your game, so that you are pushing them towards a desirable result. that is where Jaedong seems to be having trouble. But if you look at any individual game... it's really hard to identify exactly what is going wrong. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
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chisuri
Vietnam789 Posts
On June 16 2011 14:02 hacklebeast wrote: It's weird how well a lot of the tosses are doing. Bisu is nearly elo peaking, movie is peaking , horang is peaking, best is 8-1, shuttle is 8-2, jangbi is 7-1, sun is 4-1, even anytime is on a 4 game win streak. Granted, a lot of those players have had easy schedules lately, but it is a good sign for the upcoming OSL. Wait until they are eliminated by Zergs, except Bisu. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States8079 Posts
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sixfour
England11062 Posts
On June 16 2011 15:18 chisuri wrote: Wait until they are eliminated by Zergs, except Bisu. Someone hasn't seen Horang2's recent record vZ + Show Spoiler + and unlike bisu he can beat shine | ||
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
On June 16 2011 16:21 sixfour wrote: Someone hasn't seen Horang2's recent record vZ + Show Spoiler + and unlike bisu he can beat shine That's mean + Show Spoiler + jerk | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
On June 16 2011 13:47 Mortality wrote: A class / S class isn't just about % wins, especially not when you're considering a sample size of 10 games or less. Even if you win only 30% of your games the probability that you will go on a 10 game win streak over a career of 100 games is surprisingly high. [Edit: I should clarify that the reason such streaks are not common place is several reasons, just to name a couple of them: 1. metagame is in constant change and 2. in general, the more you win the harder the opponent you will be asked to face.] Want to talk results? Jaedong, for the second season in a row, dropped out at the semifinals. Reaching the semifinals for 2 seasons in a row is solid A-class by any standards. And despite his current troubles he is #3 on the win board in team league with 6 wins separating him from #4. #1 ZvT and ZvP unquestionably, for the first time in his career showing vulnerability in ZvZ (#3 by ELO?!). His recent win puts him back over 2200 ELO. And want to talk about quality of play? Try putting your finger on exactly what the problem is. It's definitely not mechanics. It's not strategy -- not really -- and it's not tactics. If I had to put my finger on it I would say that Jaedong has been having trouble controlling the flow of the game. In Starcraft you always want to have it so the other player is playing your game, so that you are pushing them towards a desirable result. that is where Jaedong seems to be having trouble. But if you look at any individual game... it's really hard to identify exactly what is going wrong. I disagree. I think his mechanics have some problems right now. Sure his macro is always fearsome, but his micro has become more sloppy. His multi-tasking might have also become more sloppy. ZvZ, JD's ling micro is great, but his Muta Micro is in no way top notch. He needs to rework it. ZvP, JD's scourge/muta micro also needs some work. Yesterday, I saw Hyun vs Kal, and while Kal's sairs aren't Bisu's, they still got devastated by Hyun's flanking scourge. That was good micro on Hyun's part. JD vs Bisu ended up in JD basically suiciding 12 scourge for like 2 sairs at a time. Not ideal. That's possibly worse than Hyun's scourge micro. >_< | ||
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WWJDD
India342 Posts
On June 16 2011 15:18 chisuri wrote: Wait until they are eliminated by Zergs, except Bisu. who'll be eliminated by a Terran. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
I dont know, his performance this season suggest otherwise.. Unless that T is Flash, whos the only T i ll consider a favourite agaist Bisu at the moment. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On June 17 2011 00:23 ghrur wrote: I disagree. I think his mechanics have some problems right now. Sure his macro is always fearsome, but his micro has become more sloppy. His multi-tasking might have also become more sloppy. ZvZ, JD's ling micro is great, but his Muta Micro is in no way top notch. He needs to rework it. ZvP, JD's scourge/muta micro also needs some work. Yesterday, I saw Hyun vs Kal, and while Kal's sairs aren't Bisu's, they still got devastated by Hyun's flanking scourge. That was good micro on Hyun's part. JD vs Bisu ended up in JD basically suiciding 12 scourge for like 2 sairs at a time. Not ideal. That's possibly worse than Hyun's scourge micro. >_< Kal is nowhere close to Bisu in sair control. Nobody is. That's the difference that makes Bisu's PvZ so far beyond anybody else's. The last time Bisu and Jaedong met we saw possibly the best corsair use ever. And the time before that, Jaedong won the game because he managed to deny Bisu aerial domination, hence Bisu could not scout the lurkers morphing. And with regards to muta use in ZvZ... I don't think it's his micro precisely. With muta battles, choosing where and when to engage your opponent is more important than it is for ling battles, especially because of moving shot. | ||
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VGhost
United States3621 Posts
On June 17 2011 01:41 ffreakk wrote: I dont know, his performance this season suggest otherwise.. Unless that T is Flash, whos the only T i ll consider a favourite agaist Bisu at the moment. The top three TvPers are (like they have been for years) Flash, fantasy, and HiyA. I'd consider them all favorites against Bisu (HiyA a little less than the others although he's one of Bisu's 3 vT losses in PL) at the moment. Also, all three are seeded and Bisu's not, for whatever that's worth. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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