Power Rank 06/02/2011 - Page 15

On June 18 2011 06:45 hacklebeast wrote:
The point was that looking back 3 months and looking back 3 years are both stupid, and has no bearing on how they are doing now, unless your TBLS with years of history to float you after one lackluster month.


Hornag's 4-0 is worse than best's 4-0. His 9-1 is worse than best's 8-1. I'm not arguing horang shouldn't be on the list, just below best.

On June 18 2011 06:45 hacklebeast wrote:
The point was that looking back 3 months and looking back 3 years are both stupid, and has no bearing on how they are doing now, unless your TBLS with years of history to float you after one lackluster month.

Hornag's 4-0 is worse than best's 4-0. His 9-1 is worse than best's 8-1. I'm not arguing horang shouldn't be on the list, just below best.

On June 18 2011 01:43 Holgerius wrote:
This should definitely have some effect on Bisu's rank. There's no ''He would've gone all the way if he hadn't been forced to play Flash twice'' excuse here, is there? His strongest match-up, relatively bad player, Bo3.

On the other hand, which players are showing consistency enough to be placed above him?

On June 18 2011 09:15 VGhost wrote:


I see that you can argue that, on the month, BeSt's faced better players, because he has. Flash is a huge win, Bogus has been hot, and Grape and Really are okay. Wooki and Lazy are rookies and Much is older: Killer's Horang2's best win.

I don't buy the 9-1 being worse than the 8-1 though, for a few reasons. One is Bisu. Another is Jaedong. Another is Shuttle. Every one a win for Horang2 last month when the best BeSt beat was Really's 47% winrate. And for losses, Stork is better than TurN.

Also, it's not "9-1 worse than 8-1", it's 12-4 vs 8-1, or if we stick to Proleague, 11-3 vs 8-1. Horang2 has more losses, but also more wins - and I have no doubt that Horang2 would beat BeSt hollow, certainly in a BoX series.

Finally, Horang2 has been playing well for months now, which ordinarily means a player is cut more slack. BeSt showed up out of nowhere at the end of April. Horang2 is the best Protoss on his team, while BeSt plays a clear 2nd place. History doesn't just apply to TLBS, even though they're the most obvious beneficiaries: you play well for a long period, you get extra consideration.

In short, while there may be an argument to be made for BeSt, it's hardly the obvious ordering you consider it. It's also true that I'm probably a bigger fan of Horang2 than BeSt, so I'm going to look at things a little differently than you.

On June 18 2011 10:50 hacklebeast wrote:
The Bisu win was very good. The jaedong win I put a step below that because there are a lot of people getting wins off of JD recently, but I'm almost ok if you say it's equal to beating flash. But After both peoples higlight wins, Best played A teamers, and Horang played B teamers (the only other consistent A teamer is killer, who is certainly not one of the premiere A teamers). I was giving him a break, but if you want to include that extra 3-2, then we can add action to the a teamer as well, but the losses are more significant than the wins.

On June 18 2011 10:50 hacklebeast wrote:
Horang has looked better for a loner period of time, but that's because best didn't play a game for over a month. How long do we hold something that he can't control over his head? We can fault him in the may rank because despite doing the most impressive thing he could possibly do in one game, it was still one game.

On June 18 2011 10:50 hacklebeast wrote:
But now it's getting silly, and we can focus on what he is doing now: beating the best player in the world.

On June 18 2011 10:16 Yongtaek wrote:
Potential rankings for June:

1. Flash

The next couple are a little less clear cut.

2-3. Hydra

Hydra made it to the semis of the MSL, where he met Karma, and God. Karma wanted to bitch-slap him, but God decided to show him a little respect and simply curbstomped him. Still, he's gone 4-0 this past month, plus is the highest Zerg by ELO. This deserves some recognition.

2-3. Baby

Baby's gone 2-0 this month so far, beating Leta and Lomo. He also made it out of the OSL prelims scramble, which puts him ahead over other players like the perenially cursed Bisu. Leta's actually pretty good at TvT, too. If things continue he could get a top three spot.

More than that, though, is that he's cemented his place as the ace of WeMade Terran. TLers have wondered whether outside observers can really judge the performance of a player--this placement definitely means that at least to insiders, Baby is a force to reckon with.

More than that, though, Baby has potential, youth, and a powerful Terran legacy behind him--see his games against Flash, for example. Will this be his season to shine? Perhaps.

4-8. Hiya

Hiya has gone 4-0 in June and is in the OSL. He's beaten Stats, FBH, Mind, and Movie--a mixed bag of opposition, but no group of pushovers either (especially Stats, whose PvT is nothing to be laughed at). Of course, his TvT and TvZ have yet to be substantially tested. Still a good month, and if he keeps winning he could easily get to a 4-6 spot.

4-8. Bisu

Bisu is out of the OSL. Nihil novi sub sole. What is depressing though is that he does this while playing extremely well in PL. I wonder if this is due to a lack of coaching support he gets for individual leagues, which, coupled with his well-known weaknesses in coming up with new builds on his own (compared to say, Best, which Kingdom commented on) is leading him into a situation where he can't dominate without Oov teaching him new builds. This would be very, very bad, as it is essentially going to cap his development as a player.

4-8. Jaedong

Jaedong has had a rough June--easily the worst month of his career. Still, he beat Flash at ZvT, so that has to count for something. But where has he gone otherwise? His nigh unshakeable ZvZ is in a terrific losing streak, and his ZvP looks mortal, being challenged by Grape of all players.

4-8. Zero

Zero simply got outclassed by Flash. Still, losing to the Last Bonjwa doesn't mean very much, so his ranking here is mostly a result of getting knocked out of the OSL. Put frankly, Zero needs to quit the cuteness and pick up consistency if he wants to vault into the top tier of players.

6-10. Jangbi

Jangbi went 3-0 this past month and made it out of the OSL prelims. That's more than can be said of any other tosses still in the OSL. Given his past performance, it's safe to say that he has potential, and his recent record seems to show that he might be getting close to attaining it.

Can he and/or Stork bring back the legend by the time Fall rolls around?

8-10. Horang2

Horang2, like Best, is a one matchup wonder, but at least he has some meat to back him up.

8-10. Best

Best beat Flash (in a macro game, nonetheless) and took some tough losses to exit the OSL. Still, if you watch his games vs. Major, it's pretty apparant that he has some of the best tactical PvT game sense around (something Bisu would do well to learn from--just look at how Best managed to de-position Major's tank line over and over again on even bases vs. how Bisu lost 40 supply chasing a floating command center vs Flash.)

Having said that, what's holding Best back isn't the OSL placement, but big question marks floating over his PvZ and PvP. His PvZ, especially, is a major question mark, as he has never, ever demonstrated strength in the matchup, and in a season where Zergs are pretty thick, this places him at the mercy of the opposing team's sniping strategy.

8-10. Roro

Roro, likewise has gone 2-0 this month and made it into the OSL. But his opponents are not considered big names so he's still an unknown quantity. There was a time when he was a solid Zerg auxiliary to the WemadeTerran team, but his days of making people curse their FPL anti-teams are pretty distant. Still, kid's got potential.

On June 18 2011 10:16 Yongtaek wrote:
Potential rankings for June:

1. Flash

The next couple are a little less clear cut.

2-3. Hydra

Hydra made it to the semis of the MSL, where he met Karma, and God. Karma wanted to bitch-slap him, but God decided to show him a little respect and simply curbstomped him. Still, he's gone 4-0 this past month, plus is the highest Zerg by ELO. This deserves some recognition.

2-3. Baby

Baby's gone 2-0 this month so far, beating Leta and Lomo. He also made it out of the OSL prelims scramble, which puts him ahead over other players like the perenially cursed Bisu. Leta's actually pretty good at TvT, too. If things continue he could get a top three spot.

More than that, though, is that he's cemented his place as the ace of WeMade Terran. TLers have wondered whether outside observers can really judge the performance of a player--this placement definitely means that at least to insiders, Baby is a force to reckon with.

More than that, though, Baby has potential, youth, and a powerful Terran legacy behind him--see his games against Flash, for example. Will this be his season to shine? Perhaps.

4-8. Hiya

Hiya has gone 4-0 in June and is in the OSL. He's beaten Stats, FBH, Mind, and Movie--a mixed bag of opposition, but no group of pushovers either (especially Stats, whose PvT is nothing to be laughed at). Of course, his TvT and TvZ have yet to be substantially tested. Still a good month, and if he keeps winning he could easily get to a 4-6 spot.

4-8. Bisu

Bisu is out of the OSL. Nihil novi sub sole. What is depressing though is that he does this while playing extremely well in PL. I wonder if this is due to a lack of coaching support he gets for individual leagues, which, coupled with his well-known weaknesses in coming up with new builds on his own (compared to say, Best, which Kingdom commented on) is leading him into a situation where he can't dominate without Oov teaching him new builds. This would be very, very bad, as it is essentially going to cap his development as a player.

4-8. Jaedong

Jaedong has had a rough June--easily the worst month of his career. Still, he beat Flash at ZvT, so that has to count for something. But where has he gone otherwise? His nigh unshakeable ZvZ is in a terrific losing streak, and his ZvP looks mortal, being challenged by Grape of all players.

4-8. Zero

Zero simply got outclassed by Flash. Still, losing to the Last Bonjwa doesn't mean very much, so his ranking here is mostly a result of getting knocked out of the OSL. Put frankly, Zero needs to quit the cuteness and pick up consistency if he wants to vault into the top tier of players.

6-10. Jangbi

Jangbi went 3-0 this past month and made it out of the OSL prelims. That's more than can be said of any other tosses still in the OSL. Given his past performance, it's safe to say that he has potential, and his recent record seems to show that he might be getting close to attaining it.

Can he and/or Stork bring back the legend by the time Fall rolls around?

8-10. Horang2

Horang2, like Best, is a one matchup wonder, but at least he has some meat to back him up.

8-10. Best

Best beat Flash (in a macro game, nonetheless) and took some tough losses to exit the OSL. Still, if you watch his games vs. Major, it's pretty apparant that he has some of the best tactical PvT game sense around (something Bisu would do well to learn from--just look at how Best managed to de-position Major's tank line over and over again on even bases vs. how Bisu lost 40 supply chasing a floating command center vs Flash.)

Having said that, what's holding Best back isn't the OSL placement, but big question marks floating over his PvZ and PvP. His PvZ, especially, is a major question mark, as he has never, ever demonstrated strength in the matchup, and in a season where Zergs are pretty thick, this places him at the mercy of the opposing team's sniping strategy.

8-10. Roro

Roro, likewise has gone 2-0 this month and made it into the OSL. But his opponents are not considered big names so he's still an unknown quantity. There was a time when he was a solid Zerg auxiliary to the WemadeTerran team, but his days of making people curse their FPL anti-teams are pretty distant. Still, kid's got potential.

On June 18 2011 14:04 Tenhou wrote:
Starleague winners curse and the flamewheel #1 rank curse is too much for Flash to handle lol