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On January 02 2011 05:23 Leviathen1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 05:20 Lightwip wrote:On January 02 2011 05:17 Leviathen1 wrote:
i dont agree with the power rank someone said this and i believe it to be true if you have only 1 opponent to play for you and that person decides whether you live or die who would that be? or who would you least want to play in a final to decide your life just basic things that tell whether opponent is scary or not to me stork isn't scary because he gets destroyed by flash and to me bisu isn't scary because he gets destroyed by himself honestly i dont agree with power rank but since it has been awhile since the protoss has even been on the pr well we will just leave it at that If Flash can't get out of a group with mediocre players, I'd have doubts about his ability to win a Bo5. um its called a bad day or bad few weeks either way but here is the thing he has a 70 percent win ratio highest anybody has ever had ever except maybe jaedong here is the thing flash and jaedong are known for their monstrous ability to outmacro any opponent they face of course sometimes they don't but honestly if i had to choose someone for playing for my life it would be flash or jaedong
As I posted earlier,
On January 02 2011 05:06 Lightwip wrote:
To all those that want Flash at the top: He didn't accomplish anything for all his skill. What claim does he have to #1 other than an OSL win months ago and a good PL record? If you argued for him above JD and Kal, that would be reasonable, but Bisu and Stork are the two best(in any order). He certainly isn't the scariest player if he can't beat Ssak, Classic, and Hyuk in games where it really matters when they don't even expect to win.
Also, I certainly wouldn't choose Jaedong to play for me. He's really been going down lately.
And you know what a bad few weeks is called? It's called a mini-slump. Which, by the way, can turn into a proper slump. This has been Flash's worst month in a long time, and I doubt you can argue that it isn't.
Career winrate is meaningless to current performance. Oov has a 67% vZ winrate, but there's no way in hell I'd trust him in a Bo5 against top players. Flash's is a bit more relevant, but it's the same concept.
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Thanks for mentioning Tyson. Non-Sea/Light MBC players don't get enough credit.
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Milkis. There are three leagues, not only SPL.
Stork:
OSL = Near perfect; One loss redeemed by sweeping tiebreakers
MSL = Good, but flawed; loss of shuttle to RorO meant a loss of the game and now he has to play Bisu
SPL = Great, except PvP; if 1/3 of your matchups is in doubt there's worry, but otherwise he is the favourite in the other matchups
Flash:
OSL = eliminated; 1-2 to two different races. Kal is forgivable, the other not so much. No need for 8 rax against an inferior player.
MSL = eliminated; 0-2 in his "best" matchup. All three of Flash's losses came to a different race?
SPL = Godlike; earlier loss to Best redeemed by immaculate drop play
Look, you can describe the two players' performances in any of the leagues however you want. Most of us see three leagues. If you only choose to see one that's your problem. Flash was not the best player last month. 1-4 individual league is more significant than a perfect SPL performance - especially at this relatively early juncture of the leagues.
You could do a breakdown for Bisu too. He gets an advantage over Stork in MSL only slightly, and in SPL by a decent amount. But Stork has a massive lead over Bisu in the OSL because he is not eliminated. Bisu went 0-2 to Shine, Stork went 1-1 to Shine and also showed that his PvT is nothing to doubt by defeating Sea and Mind (the latter twice). Bisu still has to prove his PvT this season because we haven't seen much of it. So while utterly close, the three leagues > two is quite true.
If your stubborn view cannot see that logic and makes you rant about "worst PR ever" then that's your problem. Humans have been banking on rationalism for the past few centuries. Accept that some people see SPL as only one portion of a player's performance of power. You can do so while still disagreeing. Instead you seem as stubborn as any politically biased pundit who spouts party talking points.
On January 01 2011 23:33 Milkis wrote:
PR should be for players who are playing well, showing us good games showing off their skills and honestly, this PR is terrible in that regard.
Really? Show Stork over any of his Terran opponents (Hiya shuttle anyone?). Show Stork annihilating GoRush. He has his highlights. So does Flash. But let's show the lowlights as well. You can cite Lucifer all you want, but Flash has his own losses. And despite Kal's SPL embarrassments, his individual league highlights are perhaps the best of anyone this month. You couldn't have watched his MSL games without being impressed by his PvT against Really. Do you really think that Stork, Bisu, and Kal do not have good games showing their skill?
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On January 01 2011 16:34 Milkis wrote:
lol this is seriously the worst power ranking i have ever seen in my life.
The ranking seems to put some ridiculous weight on being in OSL/MSL -- really? Enough to put Stork over Bisu, when Stork suffered some embarrassing losses recently? I dunno, that's just arbitrary bullshit to me lol.
Flash is bonjwa but he's #5? That's utter nonsense -- if Flash is not PR #1, he is not bonjwa, let it be that. Drop the arbitrary title if you're going to admit he's not the scariest player at the moment.
And then you have Kal magically at 3rd. Have you seen him play in the Proleague? I think you got swept a little too much by Kal vs Shine or something, because Kal is 1-4 in Proleague.
Hogil #10? It makes me wonder if you even WATCHED the games that Hogil actually played -- they hardly resembled Hogil actually playing well.
This is seriously disgusting lol. honestly looks like some sort of ridiculous fanboyism and arbitrary and easily swayed rankings. If your rankings shift that much in 15 days then well, I question the quality of the rankings before =/
Stork's losses have been embarrassing, but he has a better record than Bisu with a heavier schedule and is in both leagues, so IMO Stork should be above Bisu. I don't think it's unarguably true that Stork is #1 though.
I still think Flash is the favorite over anyone in a bo5 (Though Stork's PvT looks very scary atm, and it's a pity we can't see a Stork vs. Flash bo5 in a starleague.) He's still the scariest player, but he was too arrogant and dropped both leagues and his placement on PR has to be punished for that.
Who would you rather put at 3? Jaedong? His wins are soulkey piano skyhigh pure hero stats snow calm jangbi roo, while losing to light hogil bisu hiya hydra. The only people he beat that are good (versus zerg) are soulkey, pure, hero, and calm, and his losses to hogil and bisu were just really really bad.
And for your complaint about Hogil, what other player played well in his games this month and isn't on the PR? Yeah, Hogil's games have been unimpressive but nobody else has been particularly good.
This ranking would be really weird, but this month everyone's been failing in some way, so this is a good PR considering the month imo.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On January 02 2011 05:23 Leviathen1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 05:20 Lightwip wrote:On January 02 2011 05:17 Leviathen1 wrote:
i dont agree with the power rank someone said this and i believe it to be true if you have only 1 opponent to play for you and that person decides whether you live or die who would that be? or who would you least want to play in a final to decide your life just basic things that tell whether opponent is scary or not to me stork isn't scary because he gets destroyed by flash and to me bisu isn't scary because he gets destroyed by himself honestly i dont agree with power rank but since it has been awhile since the protoss has even been on the pr well we will just leave it at that If Flash can't get out of a group with mediocre players, I'd have doubts about his ability to win a Bo5. um its called a bad day or bad few weeks either way but here is the thing he has a 70 percent win ratio highest anybody has ever had ever except maybe jaedong here is the thing flash and jaedong are known for their monstrous ability to outmacro any opponent they face of course sometimes they don't but honestly if i had to choose someone for playing for my life it would be flash or jaedong
Honestly, if it came down to the "who would I choose to play a Bo5" that would never change. For these players that have played and amassed their 65%+ winrates over the years, one day, even a month or two, would not have much effect. While the confidence I place in a player has some impact on his standing in the Power Rank, confidence is not the same as momentum or power.
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On January 01 2011 23:33 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 20:58 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 01 2011 16:34 Milkis wrote:
lol this is seriously the worst power ranking i have ever seen in my life.
The ranking seems to put some ridiculous weight on being in OSL/MSL -- really? Enough to put Stork over Bisu, when Stork suffered some embarrassing losses recently? I dunno, that's just arbitrary bullshit to me lol.
Flash is bonjwa but he's #5? That's utter nonsense -- if Flash is not PR #1, he is not bonjwa, let it be that. Drop the arbitrary title if you're going to admit he's not the scariest player at the moment.
And then you have Kal magically at 3rd. Have you seen him play in the Proleague? I think you got swept a little too much by Kal vs Shine or something, because Kal is 1-4 in Proleague.
Hogil #10? It makes me wonder if you even WATCHED the games that Hogil actually played -- they hardly resembled Hogil actually playing well.
This is seriously disgusting lol. honestly looks like some sort of ridiculous fanboyism and arbitrary and easily swayed rankings. If your rankings shift that much in 15 days then well, I question the quality of the rankings before =/ Yeah Bisu's play is soooooooooooooooooooooo inspiring... Embarassing loss like to Lucifer yeah ? Which are the others exactly ? At the very limit, the first to Shine I guess. You're pretty lucky that Bisu had a BO win against Kal, because it's the only reason he's at And, guess what, you're also putting an arbitrary weight on PL. Honestly what would you have wanted ? What would you have done ? Noo ne is really dominating atm, and no one is playing well in all three match up. I don't see for instance, how you could put Jaedong over Kal with Jaedong's play. I'd say you have your own biases and you're own way of ranking, which might explain why some people are happy about this PR, and some are saying it's utter crap. If I want a non-arbitrary PR, I go check TPLD, or Kespa's ranking. And as for fanboyism, there has been much much worse on the PR in the past. The point is that the Power Ranking is very inconsistent. If I wanted to know who was performing well in PL and was still in OSL/MSL, I can look it up. I don't need the PR to tell me this. PR should be for players who are playing well, showing us good games showing off their skills and honestly, this PR is terrible in that regard. It doesnt hurt that the writer believes it's "unquestionable" Stork is #1, when it is VERY VERY questionable. Whoever wrote the PR, well, should think the rankings over before posting them ~_~ I ignored the rest of your post because I stopped reading at "Bisu had a BO win against Kal" and the tone of your voice implies that I'm some bisu fanboy or something. Quite the contrary.
My tone implied that I found your tone very disrectpectful in fact, saying this PR is terrible (and there again that Flamewheel did not think it through), especially since you stayed very vague in your critics. I might have found it ok if you had elaborated a bit more. I also know you're not a Bisu fanboy.
Please enlighten us rather than saying stuff like "lol this is seriously the worst power ranking i have ever seen in my life." (I should have stopped reading your post here I guess). And by saying what you would have done, because I have not gathered much from your rants so far apart from Hogil should not even be considered, which I agree with (even though I have no idea who should be put there instead) and "lol this sucks and is illogical"
And I also found that post very disappointed because I know you're a great contributor, and that I'm sure you have fine points to make.
PS : I'm putting that at the end for obvious reasons.
Bisu did have a BO win against Kal. 6-7 kill DT + 30 second of mining time lost, I did not see how he could lose tha gamet from that point, especially given his style. Yes I'm aware about the importance of scouting in PvP, but my point still stands I believe. Or at the very least it's not that far fetched.
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On January 02 2011 05:42 corumjhaelen wrote:
Bisu did have a BO win against Kal. 6-7 kill DT + 30 second of mining time lost, I did not see how he could lose tha gamet from that point, especially given his style. Yes I'm aware about the importance of scouting in PvP, but my point still stands I believe. Or at the very least it's not that far fetched.
Wait, are you seriously trying to discredit Bisu by saying he had a BO win? You have no idea what would've happened if Kal went obs first. He may have won all the same with a comeback. If he was some random mediocre toss, you could say this, but Bisu has the #1 PvP ELO peak of all time. He's not someone who needs luck to win.
Would it be fair if I discredited Flash in game 3 and 4 of the last OSL because he had a BO win? Not at all, we know Flash is good. Same with Bisu.
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On January 02 2011 05:52 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 05:42 corumjhaelen wrote:
Bisu did have a BO win against Kal. 6-7 kill DT + 30 second of mining time lost, I did not see how he could lose tha gamet from that point, especially given his style. Yes I'm aware about the importance of scouting in PvP, but my point still stands I believe. Or at the very least it's not that far fetched. Wait, are you seriously trying to discredit Bisu by saying he had a BO win? You have no idea what would've happened if Kal went obs first. He may have won all the same with a comeback. If he was some random mediocre toss, you could say this, but Bisu has the #1 PvP ELO peak of all time. He's not someone who needs luck to win. Would it be fair if I discredited Flash in game 3 and 4 of the last OSL because he had a BO win? Not at all, we know Flash is good. Same with Bisu.
this. and while we´re at it, we should also mention that kal´s wins against bisu in the msl wildcard playoffs were gained by the horrible positional imba on a 3-player map. (yes, 3 player maps always tend to have massive positional imbalances in pvp....)
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On January 01 2011 16:34 Milkis wrote:
And then you have Kal magically at 3rd. Have you seen him play in the Proleague? I think you got swept a little too much by Kal vs Shine or something, because Kal is 1-4 in Proleague.
I have to post one more time because I feel that this is important in showing your SPL bias, since you bring up statistics. Let's work with that. You start with Kal since the last PR (so we start on Dec. 16)
Kal:
Proleague: 1-4
Individual: 4-2
Flash:
Proleague: 3-0
Individual: 0-3
Very close. What's the deciding factor then?
Team performance?
STX: 2-2
KT: 1-2
Again, too close to decide. So what's really the deciding factor?
I shouldn't have to say it because it is obvious. But just in case. Kal is in the OSL Ro8 winning and he advanced into the MSL Ro16. Flash is eliminated from the OSL Ro16 and MSL Ro32.
All other things being relatively equal, how is that not the deciding factor? And instead of seeing this as a rational path of logical decision making you state "The ranking seems to put some ridiculous weight on being in OSL/MSL". I see no ridiculous weighing. I see a reasonable conclusion based upon similar records.
You also called the PR inconsistent and too easily swayed. Then you question how is Kal "magically" #3? He was #3 last month. Contradiction much? The writer concluded that a proleague slump is balanced out by impressive wins in the individual leagues that result in an advancement to the next round. For Flash, he feels that while 3-3 appears balanced on purely statistics, that being eliminated from both leagues decisively outweighs winning three SPL matches. He is quite right. They both have their highlights and their lowlights. You simply have to walk the path of reason to see that taking tournament eliminations into consideration is a proper weighing of results.
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I think he's tring to say game quality and level of Dom displayed. Though his wins have been good, Flashes losses have been horrible.
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On January 02 2011 05:40 flamewheel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 05:23 Leviathen1 wrote:On January 02 2011 05:20 Lightwip wrote:On January 02 2011 05:17 Leviathen1 wrote:
i dont agree with the power rank someone said this and i believe it to be true if you have only 1 opponent to play for you and that person decides whether you live or die who would that be? or who would you least want to play in a final to decide your life just basic things that tell whether opponent is scary or not to me stork isn't scary because he gets destroyed by flash and to me bisu isn't scary because he gets destroyed by himself honestly i dont agree with power rank but since it has been awhile since the protoss has even been on the pr well we will just leave it at that If Flash can't get out of a group with mediocre players, I'd have doubts about his ability to win a Bo5. um its called a bad day or bad few weeks either way but here is the thing he has a 70 percent win ratio highest anybody has ever had ever except maybe jaedong here is the thing flash and jaedong are known for their monstrous ability to outmacro any opponent they face of course sometimes they don't but honestly if i had to choose someone for playing for my life it would be flash or jaedong Honestly, if it came down to the "who would I choose to play a Bo5" that would never change. For these players that have played and amassed their 65%+ winrates over the years, one day, even a month or two, would not have much effect. While the confidence I place in a player has some impact on his standing in the Power Rank, confidence is not the same as momentum or power.
I'm not going to argue what the Power Rank should or shouldn't be (I think it's up to the writer) but this statement is false. It does change, just slowly. You wouldn't pick SaviOr to win a Bo5 against anybody these days would you? He may have stayed #1 on the Power Rank for an additional month or maybe even two after his slump started but it was pretty abrupt and severe.
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5003 Posts
Look, you can describe the two players' performances in any of the leagues however you want. Most of us see three leagues. If you only choose to see one that's your problem. Flash was not the best player last month. 1-4 individual league is more significant than a perfect SPL performance - especially at this relatively early juncture of the leagues.
You could do a breakdown for Bisu too. He gets an advantage over Stork in MSL only slightly, and in SPL by a decent amount. But Stork has a massive lead over Bisu in the OSL because he is not eliminated. Bisu went 0-2 to Shine, Stork went 1-1 to Shine and also showed that his PvT is nothing to doubt by defeating Sea and Mind (the latter twice). Bisu still has to prove his PvT this season because we haven't seen much of it. So while utterly close, the three leagues > two is quite true.
If your stubborn view cannot see that logic and makes you rant about "worst PR ever" then that's your problem. Humans have been banking on rationalism for the past few centuries. Accept that some people see SPL as only one portion of a player's performance of power. You can do so while still disagreeing. Instead you seem as stubborn as any politically biased pundit who spouts party talking points.
I wouldn't put Flash at first in this PR -- I'm pretty certain about that. That's not my complaint. Bisu did get knocked out of the OSL -- but honestly, why should that hurt him when that happened last month? Bisu played A LOT better since then and honestly if we're going by how well the players are performing for this given month, I don't think Stork at first is anywhere near unquestionable -- in fact, I'm just questioning flamewheel's metrics because he seems to care a bit TOO much about "He's in OSL, this guy is not, he's higher in ranking". If we care about how well the player performs and performs only, we don't even need the Power Rank -- we have KeSPA ranking for that.
Power Rank should see how well the players are playing independent of results in whatever league as a separate metric and as far as that is concerned I don't think flamewheel even looks at that . I don't like putting weight on ANY arbitrary league. The concentration should be on games -- not just "Oh this player is not in MSL, he must not be that high in a "power" rank". That's ridiculous.
Really? Show Stork over any of his Terran opponents (Hiya shuttle anyone?). Show Stork annihilating GoRush. He has his highlights. So does Flash. But let's show the lowlights as well. You can cite Lucifer all you want, but Flash has his own losses. And despite Kal's SPL embarrassments, his individual league highlights are perhaps the best of anyone this month. You couldn't have watched his MSL games without being impressed by his PvT against Really. Do you really think that Stork, Bisu, and Kal do not have good games showing their skill?
Why do you keep bringing up Flash? I will show you games of Bisu dominating if you wish, as I think Bisu deserved #1 spot a lot more than Stork.
Who would you rather put at 3? Jaedong? His wins are soulkey piano skyhigh pure hero stats snow calm jangbi roo, while losing to light hogil bisu hiya hydra. The only people he beat that are good (versus zerg) are soulkey, pure, hero, and calm, and his losses to hogil and bisu were just really really bad.
Flash - Jaedong - Kal would be the better order, or even Flash - Kal Jaedong. There is no reason to put Kal over Flash.
And for your complaint about Hogil, what other player played well in his games this month and isn't on the PR? Yeah, Hogil's games have been unimpressive but nobody else has been particularly good.
Hogil is 4-4 this December. All of his games were mediocre at best. How does he deserve a spot over someone like Light? Baby? Or anyone on the CNBC list?
My tone implied that I found your tone very disrectpectful in fact, saying this PR is terrible (and there again that Flamewheel did not think it through), especially since you stayed very vague in your critics. I might have found it ok if you had elaborated a bit more. I also know you're not a Bisu fanboy.
Please enlighten us rather than saying stuff like "lol this is seriously the worst power ranking i have ever seen in my life." (I should have stopped reading your post here I guess). And by saying what you would have done, because I have not gathered much from your rants so far apart from Hogil should not even be considered, which I agree with (even though I have no idea who should be put there instead) and "lol this sucks and is illogical"
And I also found that post very disappointed because I know you're a great contributor, and that I'm sure you have fine points to make.
PS : I'm putting that at the end for obvious reasons.
Bisu did have a BO win against Kal. 6-7 kill DT + 30 second of mining time lost, I did not see how he could lose tha gamet from that point, especially given his style. Yes I'm aware about the importance of scouting in PvP, but my point still stands I believe. Or at the very least it's not that far fetched.
Did you even read the rest of my post or something, cause you seem to be completely missing it. I don't know why you're so keen on blindly defending the PR.
Oh bisu had a BO win against Kal? Should we look at every game and just disregard every BO win? The point is Kal lost because he chose not to play safe -- i mean, if you watched Starcraft last season you would know that DTs were the only build Bisu ever did on PvP so more blame goes to kal for that.
I don't understand why people are saying that I want Flash at #1. I don't think Flash is #1 this PR. My issue is the arbitrary reasoning that put Stork over Bisu when Bisu has definitely shown better games than Stork had. I also dislike the 3~5 placements, which I think is absolutely ridiculous.
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On January 02 2011 05:32 Nehsb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 16:34 Milkis wrote:
lol this is seriously the worst power ranking i have ever seen in my life.
The ranking seems to put some ridiculous weight on being in OSL/MSL -- really? Enough to put Stork over Bisu, when Stork suffered some embarrassing losses recently? I dunno, that's just arbitrary bullshit to me lol.
Flash is bonjwa but he's #5? That's utter nonsense -- if Flash is not PR #1, he is not bonjwa, let it be that. Drop the arbitrary title if you're going to admit he's not the scariest player at the moment.
And then you have Kal magically at 3rd. Have you seen him play in the Proleague? I think you got swept a little too much by Kal vs Shine or something, because Kal is 1-4 in Proleague.
Hogil #10? It makes me wonder if you even WATCHED the games that Hogil actually played -- they hardly resembled Hogil actually playing well.
This is seriously disgusting lol. honestly looks like some sort of ridiculous fanboyism and arbitrary and easily swayed rankings. If your rankings shift that much in 15 days then well, I question the quality of the rankings before =/ I still think Flash is the favorite over anyone in a bo5 (Though Stork's PvT looks very scary atm, and it's a pity we can't see a Stork vs. Flash bo5 in a starleague.) He's still the scariest player, but he was too arrogant and dropped both leagues and his placement on PR has to be punished for that.
Saying Flash lost because of arrogance is slightly disingenuous. Shit happens, and it's possible to have a confluence of unlucky circumstances all run together. For example, against Classic, having the worse spawn position and a crippling build order disadvantage. That Classic managed not to flinch for the next 20 minutes is to his credit, of course. And in the OSL as well:
On December 31 2010 16:35 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 15:43 Lightwip wrote:
Besides, Kal beat Flash. Not in a series, but still. On Aztec, which is 1-10 TvP in televised games. The only Terran win was Bogus's BBS against Jaehoon. Show nested quote +Q: Your thoughts on winning the first match.▲  Kal: Aztec is heavily favored for P, so I coudn't lose, so I felt a lot of pressure. Today's victory gave me a lot of confidence. Which other Terran had to play against Protoss on Aztec and Zerg on Icarus? Being eliminated was entirely within reason. Expect him to lose even more games in Winners League as well as he's forced to play on those maps. Honestly, though, rumors of God's death are greatly exaggerated.
On January 01 2011 01:00 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 23:57 Musoeun wrote:On December 31 2010 16:35 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote:
Which other Terran had to play against Protoss on Aztec and Zerg on Icarus? Being eliminated was entirely within reason. Expect him to lose even more games in Winners League as well as he's forced to play on those maps. Honestly, though, rumors of God's death are greatly exaggerated. Aztec? Okay, really bad luck, Kal's good enough that Flash losing seems entirely "reasonable". But Icarus, while bad for Terran, isn't that bad, and Hyuk usually is "that bad" against Terran - Flash losing that game was ridiculous. Even accepting the loss to Kal, Flash should have gone 2-1 in the group, thus tiebreakers. Obviously that's not what actually happened. To actually answer your question though: Sea. But he played Stork (50/50) and Shine (Shine's better in that MU right now, and def. better than Hyuk) - and lost his TvT to Mind. Icarus's ZvT at this point is about comparable to Polaris Rhapsody's TvZ, for all the vitriol that that produced last season, even worse if you consider the usual T>Z baseline. You can say that Flash had no need to throw the dice on an 8rax against Hyuk, and I'd agree from looking at how it turned out and on basic principle. But from Flash's perspective, playing against Action in the practice room, using a strategy that he hadn't employed in a while that had a pretty darn good chance of success probably seemed like a decent idea at the time.
Especially after just seeing Fantasy, on a twelve win streak (and Elo-peaking as well, in the 2300+ club), being crushed on Icarus by Modesty. It wouldn't be the first time he overthought himself into a loss. That isn't all to say that Flash couldn't have played better, of course, and "punishing" him is reasonable for the purposes of this power rank.
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Ok, I thought you were pushing for Flash. I see your basis for Bisu #1 - it makes sense. But just when I start acknowledging that you are a reasonable person, you post this:
On January 02 2011 06:24 Milkis wrote:
Flash - Jaedong - Kal would be the better order, or even Flash - Kal Jaedong. There is no reason to put Kal over Flash.
No reason? No reason... at all? Please, see my last post to you and then tell me there is no reason. You can argue that Flash should be higher - that is fine. But if you cannot accept that my (and the writer's) reasoning for Kal above Flash makes sense, then unfortunately your input has no further place in discussions. Accepting logic does not equal agreeing with the results, but posting nonsense like "there is no reason to put Kal over Flash" is uncalled for.
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This is the great thing with PR, it makes up for alot of discussion.
I still think Flash is the better player, he's bonjwa with insane skills and winratio and 3-4 losses isn't going to change anything.
However, PR is monthly and based heavily on recent performances and when you drop out of both leagues it will show.
This PR isn't really saying who is best now but rather who is doing better right now, imo.
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@Milkis you're wrong. There isn't an undue emphasis on league participation, if there was then Kal would be above Bisu.
The fact of the matter is that league participation adds a lot to a player's momentum and his aura. You feel that he's a lot more successful if he's doing well in leagues, and failing out of leagues gives the feeling of a player who is just more vulnerable.
That's the sort of thing that matters in the PR.
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On January 01 2011 23:33 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 20:58 corumjhaelen wrote:On January 01 2011 16:34 Milkis wrote:
lol this is seriously the worst power ranking i have ever seen in my life.
The ranking seems to put some ridiculous weight on being in OSL/MSL -- really? Enough to put Stork over Bisu, when Stork suffered some embarrassing losses recently? I dunno, that's just arbitrary bullshit to me lol.
Flash is bonjwa but he's #5? That's utter nonsense -- if Flash is not PR #1, he is not bonjwa, let it be that. Drop the arbitrary title if you're going to admit he's not the scariest player at the moment.
And then you have Kal magically at 3rd. Have you seen him play in the Proleague? I think you got swept a little too much by Kal vs Shine or something, because Kal is 1-4 in Proleague.
Hogil #10? It makes me wonder if you even WATCHED the games that Hogil actually played -- they hardly resembled Hogil actually playing well.
This is seriously disgusting lol. honestly looks like some sort of ridiculous fanboyism and arbitrary and easily swayed rankings. If your rankings shift that much in 15 days then well, I question the quality of the rankings before =/ Yeah Bisu's play is soooooooooooooooooooooo inspiring... Embarassing loss like to Lucifer yeah ? Which are the others exactly ? At the very limit, the first to Shine I guess. You're pretty lucky that Bisu had a BO win against Kal, because it's the only reason he's at And, guess what, you're also putting an arbitrary weight on PL. Honestly what would you have wanted ? What would you have done ? Noo ne is really dominating atm, and no one is playing well in all three match up. I don't see for instance, how you could put Jaedong over Kal with Jaedong's play. I'd say you have your own biases and you're own way of ranking, which might explain why some people are happy about this PR, and some are saying it's utter crap. If I want a non-arbitrary PR, I go check TPLD, or Kespa's ranking. And as for fanboyism, there has been much much worse on the PR in the past. The point is that the Power Ranking is very inconsistent. If I wanted to know who was performing well in PL and was still in OSL/MSL, I can look it up. I don't need the PR to tell me this. PR should be for players who are playing well, showing us good games showing off their skills and honestly, this PR is terrible in that regard. It doesnt hurt that the writer believes it's "unquestionable" Stork is #1, when it is VERY VERY questionable. Whoever wrote the PR, well, should think the rankings over before posting them ~_~ I ignored the rest of your post because I stopped reading at "Bisu had a BO win against Kal" and the tone of your voice implies that I'm some bisu fanboy or something. Quite the contrary. Show nested quote + Stork has always been better than those two, you're just seeing the results of that now. wow some people here LOL
You just sound like you're just blinded by fanboyism. Just chill. Don't just go calling PR a terrible one just because your favorite player isn't in top 3.
The world doesn't revolve around flash and jaedong.
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Stork didn't use carriers in his OSL game against Mind, despite the hyperlink for that game being "carriers".
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United States33369 Posts
Dunno how long Milkis has been following TL Power Ranks, but continued progression in individual leagues has always been weighted very strongly, even if the game quality itself is poor.
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Flash is dating Nicole.
That is all.
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EPT
