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Its funny how jaedong is slumping while reaching high in an induvidual league, as usual
The expectations for these players is inhuman!
After watching how Flash is performing in WL, it cannot longer be denied that his drop from the induvidual leagues was nothing but HUGE flukes.
It is really unbelievable what happened, if you look at the caliber of players that he lost to. He wins everything, defeats the strongest players and suddenly he drops 4 games out of nowhere in the exact moments he needed to win them, against players he's much stronger than.
Really unbelievable
Since he went to the doctor whom adviced him to play less and hearing in interviews that he said this might be a blessing after all, one can only wonder what really was the reason that he dropped these games to those players. But thats just speculation.
I must admit though, that for someone who isn't a Flash fan these leagues will now be far more interesting because in 2010's SLs you pretty much knew who was going to win anyway.
Now Stork looks like the strongest candidate, but I'm not at all certain. He might have trouble against jaedong or fantasy and end up with two silvers to his collection hehe
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Don't ignore the fact that Zero's ZvP is strong. Stork is by no means a favourite over Zero. I love the guy and I would take him to be the lead horse for the OSL but I think he's in the middle of the pack for the MSL.
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Stork is by no means a sure bet. If Kal advances (given Great's ZvP definitely possible...), a PvP between them could be tough. Jaedong could be a tough opponent. Calm could be tough since his ZvP has produced good results lately (and he's 2-0 vs Stork). Hydra is an unknown entity.
Zero's ZvP hasn't been as hot lately and he's 1-4 against Stork lifetime anyhow. I like Zero and I think he'll potentially be a tough opponent, but he's by no means the favorite over Stork.
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On January 20 2011 09:54 Mortality wrote:
Stork is by no means a sure bet. If Kal advances (given Great's ZvP definitely possible...), a PvP between them could be tough. Jaedong could be a tough opponent. Calm could be tough since his ZvP has produced good results lately (and he's 2-0 vs Stork). Hydra is an unknown entity.
Zero's ZvP hasn't been as hot lately and he's 1-4 against Stork lifetime anyhow. I like Zero and I think he'll potentially be a tough opponent, but he's by no means the favorite over Stork.
Tbh, Stork's road for MSL is at the moment harder than OSL. Good thing that OSL ends before MSL so Stork can take more loads off from his shoulder.
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On January 20 2011 10:29 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 09:54 Mortality wrote:
Stork is by no means a sure bet. If Kal advances (given Great's ZvP definitely possible...), a PvP between them could be tough. Jaedong could be a tough opponent. Calm could be tough since his ZvP has produced good results lately (and he's 2-0 vs Stork). Hydra is an unknown entity.
Zero's ZvP hasn't been as hot lately and he's 1-4 against Stork lifetime anyhow. I like Zero and I think he'll potentially be a tough opponent, but he's by no means the favorite over Stork. Tbh, Stork's road for MSL is at the moment harder than OSL. Good thing that OSL ends before MSL so Stork can take more loads off from his shoulder.
That's because Stork only needs to beat Modesty now to make the finals. Fantasy is every bit as tough as Stork's MSL opponents, don't doubt that for a second. If there's a fifth wheel to TaekBangLeeSsang it's Fantasy.
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On January 20 2011 11:06 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 10:29 Xiphos wrote:On January 20 2011 09:54 Mortality wrote:
Stork is by no means a sure bet. If Kal advances (given Great's ZvP definitely possible...), a PvP between them could be tough. Jaedong could be a tough opponent. Calm could be tough since his ZvP has produced good results lately (and he's 2-0 vs Stork). Hydra is an unknown entity.
Zero's ZvP hasn't been as hot lately and he's 1-4 against Stork lifetime anyhow. I like Zero and I think he'll potentially be a tough opponent, but he's by no means the favorite over Stork. Tbh, Stork's road for MSL is at the moment harder than OSL. Good thing that OSL ends before MSL so Stork can take more loads off from his shoulder. That's because Stork only needs to beat Modesty now to make the finals. Fantasy is every bit as tough as Stork's MSL opponents, don't doubt that for a second. If there's a fifth wheel to TaekBangLeeSsang it's Fantasy.
I disagree. Jaedong IMO is far more likely to beat Stork in a Bo5(on MSL maps) than Fantasy(OSL maps). So far in the OSL, Stork has played very aggressive PvTs. This takes away Fantasy's biggest potential advantage, which is tech hiding. You can't try to sneak in extra tech when there are zealots/goon/reavers by your base taking a look everywhere.
On January 20 2011 02:04 StylishVODs wrote:Its funny how jaedong is slumping while reaching high in an induvidual league, as usual The expectations for these players is inhuman!
No. The expectations are raised because Bisu and Stork are peaking. It didn't matter before because there were only two players atop of the scene. Now there are 4, with perhaps a 5th in Fantasy.
After watching how Flash is performing in WL, it cannot longer be denied that his drop from the induvidual leagues was nothing but HUGE flukes.
Flash ALWAYS dominated the PL, even during his 14CC days. So I don't know why that would be indicative of anything. I'm not saying it wasn't a fluke. I'm more inclined to think Flash will be back. I'm just saying SL and PL are two different beasts. Flash really can't prove he's still head and shoulders above everyone else until next SL season.
Now Stork looks like the strongest candidate, but I'm not at all certain. He might have trouble against jaedong or fantasy and end up with two silvers to his collection hehe
I agree that Stork is probably the only player who can take Flash in a Bo5. Probably 50/50 at the moment, and hugely dependent on map pool.
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What I meant is that he's obviously not slumping. Those losses were obviously flukes. I don't see how you can deny it.
And the expectations for Jaedong and Flash has been inhuman for a very long time now.
Jaedong isn't even out of the starleague yet, he can very well win it.
You say Flash cant prove that, well he's already proven it and noone has proved him wrong.
Flash is still the one to beat, Stork must somehow show that he's are better than him before people will think he's the best. Flash is still on his usual sick winratio for the month, and we know that he most likely beats anyone to dust in a Bo5.
You seriously don't think that Flash has lost any skill because he lost 3 differemt Bo1's do you, after all that he's shown us?
So unless Stork has risen to Flashs level, which is highly unlikely and sure as hell has to be proven, flash is still the one to beat.
Stork still belong above him on PR though because he got better results that month, but don't mix those two just yet. You don't just crown someone bonjwa and then say there's a new best player over a night unless that player actually shows that hes the king. However, the gap might be closer now since Stork is playing alot better than a few months ago. But going from playing better, to playing on Flashs level is a huge step.
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On January 20 2011 14:07 baubo wrote:
I agree that Stork is probably the only player who can take Flash in a Bo5. Probably 50/50 at the moment, and hugely dependent on map pool.
Stork has stated multiple times that he thinks he can take anyone in the world except Flash. Even if we grant that in absolute terms they may be comparable (and that's a big may), Stork is still at a large mental disadvantage, especially in a Bo5. This is triply true in a final.
It's a damn shame it's all hypothetical, though.
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No, the real fluke was Stork slumping for the last year. It's obvious that he just didn't care enough about StarCraft to seriously pwn everything.
It's just that now he's returning to where he should be, on top of the scene.
It's true that flash is pretty good, but even in the days when Stork barely tried Flash can barely beat him. In a Bo5 Stork would rip apart Flash.
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On January 20 2011 15:54 StylishVODs wrote:
What I meant is that he's obviously not slumping. Those losses were obviously flukes. I don't see how you can deny it.
And the expectations for Jaedong and Flash has been inhuman for a very long time now.
Jaedong isn't even out of the starleague yet, he can very well win it.
You say Flash cant prove that, well he's already proven it and noone has proved him wrong.
Flash is still the one to beat, Stork must somehow show that he's are better than him before people will think he's the best. Flash is still on his usual sick winratio for the month, and we know that he most likely beats anyone to dust in a Bo5.
You seriously don't think that Flash has lost any skill because he lost 3 differemt Bo1's do you, after all that he's shown us?
So unless Stork has risen to Flashs level, which is highly unlikely and sure as hell has to be proven, flash is still the one to beat.
Stork still belong above him on PR though because he got better results that month, but don't mix those two just yet. You don't just crown someone bonjwa and then say there's a new best player over a night unless that player actually shows that hes the king. However, the gap might be closer now since Stork is playing alot better than a few months ago. But going from playing better, to playing on Flashs level is a huge step.
It's weird. You're the one trying to prove causation: Flash winning in PL -> Flash losing in SL is fluke. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just saying that's not a logical proof, given history of players performing at vastly different levels in PL vs SL. And this is applicable to Flash too, since his SL performances vary much more widely than his PL performancse.
So again, I'm not proving anything. Rather, I'm simply using a wait-and-see attitude. It's up to you to provide causation.
i.e.
1. Player dominate the PL -> Play dominate the SLs.
2. Flash is a player who dominate the PL
3. Conclusion: Flash must also therefore dominate the SL.
#1 has never been proven to be true. Without it, #2 and #3 cannot stand by itself alone.
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JD beat Snow and will most likely knock him out, but his ZvP does not look good.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
That was ridiculously sloppy...
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Baubo, I don't really understand your reasoning. Why make it more complicated than it is? PL and SL is not that different except that mental barriers might be a factor that a player is performing worse in either one.
You're playing a game of bw versus an opponent, thats all.
We know Flash doesn't have this mental barrier anymore.
If he plays a 100 games and lose 5 of those and those happened to matter, it's just bad luck timed losses if you are certain that the player wasn't affected by "choking".
If you dominate the PL you should be able to dominate the SLs but sometimes it doesn't work out, thats what happened this time.
I'm not saying it's impossible for stork to actually be the best player right now, I'm just saying that it's imposssible to tell yet based on what we know and that it's more likely that Flash is still the top player.
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So you are both pretty much saying it's impossible to tell yet. XD
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hope so anyway hydra looking strong
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On January 20 2011 16:43 gen.Sun wrote:
No, the real fluke was Stork slumping for the last year. It's obvious that he just didn't care enough about StarCraft to seriously pwn everything.
It's just that now he's returning to where he should be, on top of the scene.
It's true that flash is pretty good, but even in the days when Stork barely tried Flash can barely beat him. In a Bo5 Stork would rip apart Flash.
Omg... everytime there's a halfway reasonable conversation/discussion going on, some idiot comes along and makes ridiculous troll statements.. Yes, I should ignore it but Jesus Christ......
Here's some food for thought. The maps were rather toss favored too. And I guess making the finals of a starleague can safely be considered "barely tried".
Furthermore, since 2008 Flash is 10-6 vs Stork and as far as I remember hasn't lost a single BoX vs him in those 3 years. Before 2008, Flash was basically a very talented rookie while Stork was already well established in the scene. At this point I don't think I'll have to tell you that your post is bullshit from the first letter to the last, right? You're a disgrace for all Stork fans out there, myself included.
Troll successful btw.
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The idea that anyone would rip apart Flash in a Bo5 is hilarious. XD
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Stork portrays a more aloof character in his interviews; therefore, he wasn't really trying before, and only the last month is the REAL Stork when he actually practices.
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I hate Flash. I love Stork. And I believe Flash should still be number 1 on the PR. I miss Fakesteve because his power rankings werent a summary of recent results. It had some predictive analysis to it. I believe the PR should be ranking of: Given their current form who do you expect to perform better next month. Not: Who had the best results last month. If I wanted to know the results I could just look up TPLD. To put it another way, I believe the PR should be a measure of "who is most likely to win a tournament, should a new tournament start now." Every progamer (not fan) would place Flash on top of that list. Yes, I know that given such a definition of the PR, the rankings would not change much over time. So be it. If Flash is the odds-on favourite to win every tournament till the end of time then he should be number 1 till the end of time. But that's not going to happen. The field always catches up to the Bonjwa eventually.
And I repeat: I hate Flash. I love Stork.
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EPT
