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On August 30 2010 11:25 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 08:44 swanized wrote:On August 29 2010 23:19 Mortality wrote:
Flash isn't so much a master of adaptability as he is a master of studying the metagame trends and spending many long days/weeks/months preparing strategies designed to take it down. In terms of flexibility, Flash is behind the other bonjwas.
wohoho did you just call Flash Bonjwa? I'm inclined to think that even if they haven't been given the titles, Flash and Jaedong -- considering how ridiculous both of them look right now -- both deserve to be mentioned as bonjwa. The only person to make more finals than JD is NaDa. Only NaDa is ahead in gold medal count. Only Oov is tied. Nobody ever before made 5 finals in 1 year. Nobody has matched Flash's 12 month win record. Chances are they will meet again in OSL finals. It's very likely that at least 1 finals next season will be a Flash/JD meeting. If a bonjwa normally makes 3 finals in a row, what can be said about two players who face each other in the finals 3 season in a row? It's like if Michael Johnson and Usain Bolt were running the 200m against each other both at their respective World Record speeds.
 Good post. I don't think people will call them both Bonjwas though, it's kind of against the meaning of the word to have two...
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On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now .
Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different.
+ Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss.
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On August 30 2010 19:20 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now . Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. + Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss.
No, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Mind.
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On August 30 2010 19:59 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 19:20 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now . Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. + Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss. No, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Mind.
The biggest reason is that he dropped off after that. Don't forget, Savior lost an MSL finals to Chojja right in the middle of his prime.
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On August 30 2010 20:07 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 19:59 SuperArc wrote:On August 30 2010 19:20 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now . Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. + Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss. No, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Mind. The biggest reason is that he dropped off after that. Don't forget, Savior lost an MSL finals to Chojja right in the middle of his prime.
Yeah, but everyone knew it was a fluke and he would easily come back. Bisu on the other hand slumped horribly after the MSL loss.
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On August 30 2010 20:07 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 19:59 SuperArc wrote:On August 30 2010 19:20 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now . Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. + Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss. No, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Mind. The biggest reason is that he dropped off after that. Don't forget, Savior lost an MSL finals to Chojja right in the middle of his prime.
Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different.
He probably got a lot of money for that thrown game..
And savior is not a bonjwa.. He is not even a player.. He is a cheater and should be remembered as that.. As far as i know, he might payed of those people to loose who knows.. He was stripped of all titles and as far as i am concerned, he never existed in the first place.. The worst thing you can do is to cheat..
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On August 30 2010 21:30 Samurai- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 20:07 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:59 SuperArc wrote:On August 30 2010 19:20 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now . Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. + Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss. No, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Mind. The biggest reason is that he dropped off after that. Don't forget, Savior lost an MSL finals to Chojja right in the middle of his prime. Show nested quote +Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. He probably got a lot of money for that thrown game.. And savior is not a bonjwa.. He is not even a player.. He is a cheater and should be remembered as that.. As far as i know, he might payed of those people to loose who knows.. He was stripped of all titles and as far as i am concerned, he never existed in the first place.. The worst thing you can do is to cheat..
All the cases of cheating happened in 2009, by the way.
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 30 2010 21:30 Samurai- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 20:07 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:59 SuperArc wrote:On August 30 2010 19:20 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now . Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. + Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss. No, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Mind. The biggest reason is that he dropped off after that. Don't forget, Savior lost an MSL finals to Chojja right in the middle of his prime. Show nested quote +Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. He probably got a lot of money for that thrown game.. And savior is not a bonjwa.. He is not even a player.. He is a cheater and should be remembered as that.. As far as i know, he might payed of those people to loose who knows.. He was stripped of all titles and as far as i am concerned, he never existed in the first place.. The worst thing you can do is to cheat..
Haters gonna hate! I will remember sAviOr for the good things he brought to starcraft and to me, not the bad.
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hm. and about comparing. I alwaysargued that  Flash is very similar to Oov, NaDa or BoxeR in the way he dominates and that You should not EVER compare zerg bonjwas (like  sAviOr , Jaedong or only god of war) to terran bonjwas (like Oov, NaDa, BoxeR or Flash) or  Bisu :>
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Canada2480 Posts
On August 30 2010 21:30 Samurai- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 20:07 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:59 SuperArc wrote:On August 30 2010 19:20 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now . Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. + Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss. No, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Mind. The biggest reason is that he dropped off after that. Don't forget, Savior lost an MSL finals to Chojja right in the middle of his prime. Show nested quote +Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. He probably got a lot of money for that thrown game.. And savior is not a bonjwa.. He is not even a player.. He is a cheater and should be remembered as that.. As far as i know, he might payed of those people to loose who knows.. He was stripped of all titles and as far as i am concerned, he never existed in the first place.. The worst thing you can do is to cheat..
you can hate on savior but forgetting him and the role he played in the development of modern starcraft is wrong in my opinion
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So since the Month isn't over yet, these rankings should be switched to show the REAL number 1 player. All that really matters is who takes home the hardware.
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Er.
The August rankings were published at the beginning of the month and take into account things that happened in the last month; the rankings that take into account Flash's victory in the MSL will be included in the "September" rankings.
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On August 31 2010 03:14 swanized wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 21:30 Samurai- wrote:On August 30 2010 20:07 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:59 SuperArc wrote:On August 30 2010 19:20 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now . Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. + Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss. No, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Mind. The biggest reason is that he dropped off after that. Don't forget, Savior lost an MSL finals to Chojja right in the middle of his prime. Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. He probably got a lot of money for that thrown game.. And savior is not a bonjwa.. He is not even a player.. He is a cheater and should be remembered as that.. As far as i know, he might payed of those people to loose who knows.. He was stripped of all titles and as far as i am concerned, he never existed in the first place.. The worst thing you can do is to cheat.. you can hate on savior but forgetting him and the role he played in the development of modern starcraft is wrong in my opinion
Exactly.
If you want to hate Savior as a person, fine. But the modernization of that Savior brought to Starcraft completely changed the mindset of every gamer from your common D-rank scrub to superstars like Flash and Jaedong.
And to those saying ridiculous things... I would completely disagree that Flash and Jaedong are "above Savior in every way." Not at all. There's a reason why Savior changed the mindset of every gamer and it's for his game play (certainly it's not for his attitude). Modernization happened as a direct response to Savior.
Flash and Jaedong epitomize the modern gamer. Savior created the modern gamer. That should not be forgotten. That doesn't take away from the accomplishments of Flash and Jaedong. Savior can no longer claim to be "above them." But he's not "below them" either.
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I agree entirely with the idea that hating Savior as a person is acceptable (even if a bit strong...), but to ignore what he gave to starcraft entirely just because kespa stripped his titles? I don't buy that; Savior is a bonjwa through and through, and I respect him as an amazing starcraft player. There are a lot of other examples of this sort of thing... I really dislike mob bosses, but damned if they're not amazing businessmen!
That said, I'm all for just tossing both Flash and Jaedong into the 'bonjwa' camp, although I don't really think that 'bonjwa' means anything. I think everyone can agree that both Flash and Jaedong are leaps and bounds ahead of their competition (aside from one another). They're amazing starcraft players; amazing enough for us to assume that they'll dominate no matter who they face.
And that is why they almost always pop up in finals vs each other, and it's also why those games are so exciting. Apart from a few flukes (effort, anyone?), a jaedong vs flash finals is the only finals that we all can't be 90% sure as to the victor. If either play falters earlier, or they face each other before finals, we already know who's going to win. It's going to be the other of the pair, and we all know it. And... that's just boring.
This rivalry is the only thing keeping finals interesting in modern SC:BW. I like not knowing for sure that Flash is just going to yawn his way through the games, just like I enjoy not being 100% sure that Jaedong is just going to stomp his opponent. And that's what Flash v Jaedong gives me. I don't care who's number one and number two; they're equals in my opinion (flash seems to win more games :D), and even if calling them bonjwa is against the word, because there's two of them, they've surpassed the title in my opinion.
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In my opinion, a bonjwa is someone who changes the game so much with a dominant new style of play that simply makes his predecessors obsolete. Boxer did this in many ways, Nada pretty much invented mechanics, oov macro, and savior invented modern play. Bisu is the closest there is to another person who did this, but he wasn't quite there .
The fact is, Jaedong and Flash didn't do anything like this. They just play better than their predecessors with a few new strategies. They certainly didn't influence how the game is played, but they just played the best.
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On August 30 2010 21:30 Samurai- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 20:07 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:59 SuperArc wrote:On August 30 2010 19:20 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now . Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. + Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss. No, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Mind. The biggest reason is that he dropped off after that. Don't forget, Savior lost an MSL finals to Chojja right in the middle of his prime. Show nested quote +Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. He probably got a lot of money for that thrown game.. And savior is not a bonjwa.. He is not even a player.. He is a cheater and should be remembered as that.. As far as i know, he might payed of those people to loose who knows.. He was stripped of all titles and as far as i am concerned, he never existed in the first place.. The worst thing you can do is to cheat..
You go ahead and do that.
I for one realize that this match fixing thing has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that he was one of the most skilled players to play the game and showed us domination the likes of which hadn't been seen before.
Yes he was bonjwa, nothing can take that away from him.
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On August 30 2010 21:30 Samurai- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 20:07 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:59 SuperArc wrote:On August 30 2010 19:20 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 19:09 raga4ka wrote:On August 30 2010 18:57 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 17:55 writer22816 wrote:On August 30 2010 09:34 Lightwip wrote:On August 30 2010 09:21 Loffeman wrote:
I dont get why JD didn't 4 pool last game. It was obvious that Flash would go for depot and try to get wall and that wall wouldn't be near to done when lings would arrive right? Because JD decided that he shouldn't adapt, ever. It's all very well saying this in hindsight. But would YOU 4 pool in a deciding game 5 when it auto loses to anything other than 14 cc? I can see why Jaedong wouldn't want to take the risk even if 14cc is pretty standard on that map. Yes, I would have. Even before the first set began I though that Jaedong should 4 pool. It completely throws the other player off and could give you an easy 3-0 if it works. Or it could do the opposite, but a gamble is a gamble. If the map is Terran Eye 3, you're not gambling that much, you're just giving yourself a chance at winning a game that is ridiculous. IMO, comparable to protoss cheese on Tears of the Protoss, just not as extreme. On August 30 2010 18:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can't they just be the bonjwa twins like batman and robin or something?
i like the idea of the leessang bonjwa No, Bisu owns both of them. Bisu got beat by Leta , Sea and Effort he can't light a candle to them right now . Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. + Show Spoiler +Fanboy QQ aside, Bisu is IMO closer than JD or Flash because he rose at a time when both of them were rookies and became the best for a bit shorter time than what would be considered Bonjwa. Ironically enough, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Stork, a protoss. No, the biggest reason he isn't is because of Mind. The biggest reason is that he dropped off after that. Don't forget, Savior lost an MSL finals to Chojja right in the middle of his prime. Show nested quote +Savior would've gotten beat by Leta, Sea, and Effort too, but he's still bonjwa. Explain why this is different. He probably got a lot of money for that thrown game.. And savior is not a bonjwa.. He is not even a player.. He is a cheater and should be remembered as that.. As far as i know, he might payed of those people to loose who knows.. He was stripped of all titles and as far as i am concerned, he never existed in the first place.. The worst thing you can do is to cheat..
he threw an insignificant amount of games for money, he didn't cheat to win the games he won. he didn't cheat to get to the top. his ego inflated with his success and he made some bad decisions, that doesn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest zergs of all time in his prime.
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All of the bonjwas were the undisputed #1 player for at least 6 months, some of them more like a year. With all the debate surrounding whether Jaedong or Flash is better it's ridiculous to call one of them bonjwa.
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It's ridiculous to call either one a bonjwa because they're way past that level. :p
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EPT
