EPTFlash sealed the deal for his team in PL finals, and 3-killed to win in the WL finals.
Power Rank 08/01/2010 - Page 35
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SimonB
United States1088 Posts
Flash sealed the deal for his team in PL finals, and 3-killed to win in the WL finals. | ||
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SimonB
United States1088 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:19 SuperArc wrote: I'll never understand why MBC or OGN just dont put the most balanced map on sets 1 and 5. Game 3 on FS showed us that JD and Flash can play such beautiful back and forth SC, but noooo. Good to see your complaints about PR bookend the page there. ...even though Flash went bio to win on it twice, not "omg imba PR mech". | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:19 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah, but Flash won his game and Jaedong lost all of his, and both of them played a game that decided the final. Flash played against Hyuk with his team 1 game up . Jaedong played Fantasy who cheesed him when they were 1 game down . Also KT was in the finals back then while Hwaseung was # 2 place . Jaedong tried hard all season , but his team kept failing and in the end they ended up #2 . So teamleague shouldn't be caunted at all if they don't have equally strong teams ... | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:23 raga4ka wrote: Flash played against Hyuk with his team 1 game up . Jaedong played Fantasy who cheesed him 1 game down ... But JD was like really consistent during them playoffs. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4758 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:23 raga4ka wrote: Flash played against Hyuk with his team 1 game up . Jaedong played Fantasy who cheesed him when they were 1 game down ... Although I agree that the two seasons are not comparable, Jaedong lost to Hyuk on Outsider with 12hatch vs 9pool, which could have brought them directly into super-ace on the second day. Still, comparing KTs team this season with Oz last season after ForGG left is impossible. KTs tosses looked like they could take anyone on SK down that day, even in an ace match, they were brilliantly prepaired. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:22 SimonB wrote: Good to see your complaints about PR bookend the page there. ...even though Flash went bio to win on it twice, not "omg imba PR mech". ... The map has a massive impact on the players' options at every stage of the game. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:23 raga4ka wrote: Flash played against Hyuk with his team 1 game up . Jaedong played Fantasy who cheesed him when they were 1 game down . Also KT was in the finals back then while Hwaseung was # 2 place . Jaedong tried hard all season , but his team kept failing and in the end they ended up #2 . So teamleague shouldn't be caunted at all if they don't have equally strong teams ... It doesn't matter how strong the teams are, I'm not blaming Oz's loss solely on Jaedong, but he didn't win against Fantasy or Hyuk in any of the 3 games he played. Flash won his game (and winner's league, if you want to be a stickler for this season) and sealed the win. But this is all moot, even if you take away SPL and WL as a whole, Flash has still way outperformed Jaedong for ANY season 3 seasons in a row. Jaedong has, at his best, made a finals win and a semifinals loss in respective leagues. Flash has made 5 of 6 finals so far, and if he beats Free, 6 of 6, for three seasons. Jaedong isn't close in any sense to Flash's peak. This is not to discredit Jaedong, though! Flash has hit an enormous hotstreak that's gone on for awhile, but Jaedong has been winning titles on and off for 3 years. Jaedong has a sense of comeback and consistency, Flash has a sense of pure dominance. Think kind of like Nada and Oov (and funnily it makes a bit of sense in that idea that Flash would pseudo-dethrone Jaedong as the #1 player) | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:33 TwoToneTerran wrote: It doesn't matter how strong the teams are, I'm not blaming Oz's loss solely on Jaedong, but he didn't win against Fantasy or Hyuk in any of the 3 games he played. Flash won his game (and winner's league, if you want to be a stickler for this season) and sealed the win. But this is all moot, even if you take away SPL and WL as a whole, Flash has still way outperformed Jaedong for ANY season 3 seasons in a row. Jaedong has, at his best, made a finals win and a semifinals loss in respective leagues. Flash has made 5 of 6 finals so far, and if he beats Free, 6 of 6, for three seasons. Jaedong isn't close in any sense to Flash's peak. This is not to discredit Jaedong, though! Flash has hit an enormous hotstreak that's gone on for awhile, but Jaedong has been winning titles on and off for 3 years. Jaedong has a sense of comeback and consistency, Flash has a sense of pure dominance. Think kind of like Nada and Oov (and funnily it makes a bit of sense in that idea that Flash would pseudo-dethrone Jaedong as the #1 player) You should understand that having a solid team behind your back is infinitely better then a team whos third best player is Killer . I already said that Flash's run is more impressive then Jaedong's a while back i'm not arguing i'm just saing that teamleagues is the teams win not the player . | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4758 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:48 TwoToneTerran wrote: ugh, I'm not saying it isn't the team's win, but that's the closest proxy we have for their proleague accomplishment. If you want to be semantic about it then Flash had a best showing ever in SPL overall this season, capped off by a set winning game vs SKT. He also won WL, which JD failed to win (In amusingly similar situations, where Flash had to carry his team and did, Jaedong stumbled on the last hurdle that was skyhigh not cheesing for once). His individual league runs speak for themself, obviously. Your WL comparison makes me mad. Jaedong won 4/4 in the semifinals and 3/4 in the finals. Yeah, Flash 3-killed in the finals, great, that is not more impressive than 7/8 (including Flash as you know). There is not even a question who is to "blame" for the second place in WL. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:48 TwoToneTerran wrote: ugh, I'm not saying it isn't the team's win, but that's the closest proxy we have for their proleague accomplishment. If you want to be semantic about it then Flash had a best showing ever in SPL overall this season, capped off by a set winning game vs SKT. He also won WL, which JD failed to win (In amusingly similar situations, where Flash had to carry his team and did, Jaedong stumbled on the last hurdle that was skyhigh not cheesing for once). His individual league runs speak for themself, obviously. Uh Sorry but KT got 1 win in WL finals game. Not to mention the whole play - off ? I didn't see Hwaseung do anything in the play-offs in winners league . It was just Jaedong playing and winning and failing a 4 pool on a terribly imbalanced TvZ map . Thought i'm happy about that i wanted CJ to win , but can't help to feel sad for Jaedong when Spear some other protoss noob and Hiya lost to Skyhigh who isn't even good in anything except TvT ... | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
Or will we only have the OSL to value next month's PR? | ||
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
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Cpadolf
Sweden1199 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:56 Samurai- wrote: so flash is like, silver gold, gold silver, and now maybe gold gold ? this is puuuuuuuuuuuuure dominance !! Nah, JD is going to win the OSL. If PR or Grand Line gets doubled I'll cry though... | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:56 SuperArc wrote: Btw does anyone know when the next PL season is gonna start? Or will we only have the OSL to value next month's PR? Early October. Offseason ahoy! | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 28 2010 21:55 Malinor wrote: Your WL comparison makes me mad. Jaedong won 4/4 in the semifinals and 3/4 in the finals. Yeah, Flash 3-killed in the finals, great, that is not more impressive than 7/8 (including Flash as you know). There is not even a question who is to "blame" for the second place in WL. How does going 3/4, or even 7/8 and losing beat 3/3 and winning? Did you want Flash to play more games despite literally not having the opportunity to? You guys take me saying "Jaedong failed to win," as some grievous insult when it's obviously a fact. Jaedong is most definitely the guy who got Oz to every stage it's been to since 2007, but that doesn't change the fact that he has lost the crunchtime games in, what, 3 of the 4 finals oz has been to? (He won against CJ in 07 PL r1 finals, lost to frozen in R2 finals, lost in WL despite a monstrous run leading up to it, lost 3 games against SKT). Flash, despite less games, won all of them. Including the "well he beat Flash in his WL run" doesn't mean anything, because we're not comparing 2008 WL Flash to Jaedong, but 2009-2010 Flash with Jaedong. I'm seriously not insulting Jaedong. He is still ahead of Flash in individual leagues and may even tie Nada this season if he does as well in the OSL as I expect. But Flash's hotstreaks are definitely the hottest there's ever been since maaaaybe Nada. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States8181 Posts
Depressing.  . I hated off season so much last time. But I was so pumped to watch the upcoming KT season and my favorite zerg Luxur--- oh wait . | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4758 Posts
On August 28 2010 22:15 TwoToneTerran wrote: How does going 3/4, or even 7/8 and losing beat 3/3 and winning? Did you want Flash to play more games despite literally not having the opportunity to? You guys take me saying "Jaedong failed to win," as some grievous insult when it's obviously a fact. Jaedong is most definitely the guy who got Oz to every stage it's been to since 2007, but that doesn't change the fact that he has lost the crunchtime games in, what, 3 of the 4 finals oz has been to? (He won against CJ in 07 PL r1 finals, lost to frozen in R2 finals, lost in WL despite a monstrous run leading up to it, lost 3 games against SKT). Flash, despite less games, won all of them. Including the "well he beat Flash in his WL run" doesn't mean anything, because we're not comparing 2008 WL Flash to Jaedong, but 2009-2010 Flash with Jaedong. I'm seriously not insulting Jaedong. He is still ahead of Flash in individual leagues and may even tie Nada this season if he does as well in the OSL as I expect. But Flash's hotstreaks are definitely the hottest there's ever been since maaaaybe Nada. Honestly, I believe that his negative record in teamleague-finals is nothing more but a statistic anomaly. He is like 20-5 (I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass right now) in ACE matches the last two seasons, he has numerous LWW or LWWW in series play, even a LLWWW, until today 4-0 when series were tied 2-2. There is absolutely no hint at all that he would crumble under high pressure. 7/8 does not beat 3/3 how you frame it. You just bring up the argument that Jaedong could not achieve what Flash achieved because he "stumbled" over Skyhigh, or got extremely well cheesed by Fantasy in SPL Grand finals. And I disagree, he didn't stumble at all, he just finally got unlucky. As I said, to me that is just a statistical anomaly. Being the undisputable best player, it is still very likely to drop 1 out of 8, especially when everyone is prepairing to take you down. Since Flash only played three games and won all of them, these two runs are not comparable in this way. But anyway, it happened, and Jaedong therefore did not achieve the kind of dominance Flash is showing now, and Flashs hotstreak is better (although I would argue that Jaedong did not peak in summer 2009, but that's definitely too much to cover in this post). But noone actually questions that. What Flash has done this year is without a doubt the best performance of all time, no hardcore 2002-Nada-fan is going to convince me of something else. + Show Spoiler + Funny how much people can write when they disagree about so litte | ||
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