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On August 26 2010 06:40 Garaman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 11:15 setzer wrote:On August 24 2010 10:55 Yxes2211 wrote:On August 24 2010 09:09 setzer wrote:On August 24 2010 08:23 okum wrote:On August 24 2010 07:41 blade55555 wrote:On August 24 2010 06:25 Yxes2211 wrote:On August 24 2010 06:21 DracoVolantus wrote:On August 24 2010 05:53 Mortality wrote:On August 24 2010 04:52 DracoVolantus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 24 2010 03:50 Mortality wrote:
You know it's interesting. For all that we talk about how the skill gap is always closing between S-class and practice partners, the top gamers have been getting more and more consistent with each passing year. I've been thinking of writing an article on why this is true and how it relates to the bonjwas. In win percentage, both JD and Flash are ahead of where Boxer ever was, but nobody -- I mean nobody -- came anywhere close to Boxer's level of dominating the strategical game. [quote] and You say it after two 2-3 semifinals? hm. I mean continuing into the future. It's always been the case that the best players of the current season are the most likely finalists of next season, but lately the number of finals containing Flash and/or JD has been startling. I think they won't meet even in this OSL because of quality of their opponents, but we'll see, hm. I think if Stork advances and plays JD, then Stork can advance instead, but I don't see Flash being knocked out. In a bo5? If stork beats JD in a bo5 I would be very very impressed. Stork could definitely beat Jaedong. The man is currently on a 7-game winning streak against him (yes, I'll count losses on Tears of the Protoss and Sin Chupung-Ryeong as wins). No matter who'd win, a Bo5 between Stork vs Jaedong is probably the only thing I'd like to see more right now than Flash vs Jaedong. Except maybe Stork vs Flash. This is a joke? Stork is not even close to taking the best ZvP player in a bo5. As much as I would like to see a reemergence of Stork and for him to capture his second OSL the only person who seems capable of stopping JD right now is Flash (and vice-versa). And Stork does not have a winning streak against JD if you count WCG grand finals. You have to understand, JD and Stork are really good friends and practice with each other constantly. Yes his ZvP isn't great when compared to tosses, but if there is ANY toss that knows how to play JD, its Stork. I have confidence in Stork's ability to take games off the best players in any proleague game, but with his current PvZ condition, Jaedong's current ZvP condition and it being a bo5, I have little confidence he will even get two wins. I believe Bisu on the other hand can take Jaedong in a bo5. bisu is the last protoss where i would put my eggs in a basket to beat jaedong in bo5. he makes utterly stupid mistakes that make you bash your head against the wall. (zealot wall anybody?) no, stork, kal or free are the protoss's i give the most credit for when it comes to challenging jaedong in games. kal played AMAZING p v z, it was just a shame that it was P v J. free has beat jaedong in bo3 i believe. or was it bo5 in a previous MSL where the archon + zealot push first emerged. stork is stork. brilliant tactician and amazing toss player. still relevant besides his manga/anime addiction. im hoping for an epic finals for MSL. flash.. jaedong.. give us more games like the ones u two played on rush hour 3, odd eye, etc etc. god im psyched!
You are crazy to say Bisu does the same stupid mistakes over and over again in PvZ. The example you cited is a fluke that happens very rarely for progamers (much less someone the caliber of Bisu).
But thats not the worst offense. It borders on lunacy to suggest Kal has even a remote chance to taking Jaedong in bo5 (or at least a better chance then the still best PvZ in Bisu). This is the same inconsistent Kal who always struggles in series play against S-class progamers. Kal has never won a series against JD and is all time 5-14 against him. If Kal could never beat Jaedong before I don't see how he will do it now given Jaedong is playing arguably better than he ever has.
Stork has not been relevant for a long time now. While I always trust Stork's ability to PvT and take bo1 games off top players I do not think he has it in him to play a bo5. His PvZ can often times be described as both brilliant and disastrous. He has not shown in 2010 to be the strongest protoss.
Free, however, has. If he finishes Zero off it will be his second semi-final in as many seasons. His PvZ has always been his strong matchup, but it was never as good as Bisu's, and it still isn't. It is difficult to gauge how he would fare against JD considering they have barely played each other in the last two years, but if they do meet in a bo5 it will not be this season. Free still has a lot of inexperience in bo5 and if he does manage to beat Zero he will likely fall once again to Flash.
Truthfully, unless Action or Leta pull a major upset in their bo3 I see no one capable of beating Jaedong or Flash in the semi-finals. JvF is almost guaranteed.
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On August 26 2010 08:52 blade55555 wrote:Yeah I don't see any protoss beating Jaedong in a bo5 but I would say that about almost any player right now except for Flash  . I am super pumped to see the MSL finals again between Jaedong and Flash. Will Jaedong get revenge (please do) or will Flash win again? Sigh I can't wait :D
I think Light could do it and I think he proved that. To be quite honest, Light looked like the stronger player in their MSL series. (Edit: obviously I'm referring to the TvZ/ZvT match-up.... Jaedong is vastly more well-rounded than Light.)
Other than Flash and Light? Nobody stands out right now. A small possibility on Fantasy, whose TvZ lately has been quite strong. I might have given Effort the chance a month or two ago, but JvZ looked a lot better than EvZ at WCG.
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These PR's seem pretty hard to make while PL isn't running.
No one except the top few play any games.
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On August 26 2010 16:15 Lightwip wrote:
These PR's seem pretty hard to make while PL isn't running.
No one except the top few play any games.
Only the 2 #1's really count on the PR anyway. The real #1, and then #3, which is the second #1. Jaedong and Flash, whoever is first, and then #3, the #1 of all the rest of proleague.
The rest, 4-10 + CBNC, will just be some random folks, minus hiya, that probably deserve it but who really knows cuz no one but J and F is consistent nowadays.
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On August 27 2010 04:04 danl9rm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 16:15 Lightwip wrote:
These PR's seem pretty hard to make while PL isn't running.
No one except the top few play any games. Only the 2 #1's really count on the PR anyway.
Totally disagree. Everybody goes apeshit if their favorite of Flash/JD isn't #1, but that's just rampant fanboyism talking, and misses the point of PR completely.
The reality is that everything is, or should be, +/- 1 or 2 places.
With rank 1, unless there is a clear and absolute, completely undisputed #1 in all of progaming, then it's not that big a deal who gets it so long as the person who does get it is worthy of it.
The greatest failing of the power ranks over the past 3 months has been a lack of mention of Hiya Magikarp, who should have been at least CBNC every single month, but instead has not been seen since the May 3rd rankings, where he was ranked 10th. Hiya seems to be one of the most underrated players in all progaming. He's been in the top 15 ELO now for over a year, often coming up in the low end of the top 10, but he seems to get treated as mediocre.
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Canada2480 Posts
On August 27 2010 06:38 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:04 danl9rm wrote:On August 26 2010 16:15 Lightwip wrote:
These PR's seem pretty hard to make while PL isn't running.
No one except the top few play any games. Only the 2 #1's really count on the PR anyway. Totally disagree. Everybody goes apeshit if their favorite of Flash/JD isn't #1, but that's just rampant fanboyism talking, and misses the point of PR completely. The reality is that everything is, or should be, +/- 1 or 2 places. With rank 1, unless there is a clear and absolute, completely undisputed #1 in all of progaming, then it's not that big a deal who gets it so long as the person who does get it is worthy of it. The greatest failing of the power ranks over the past 3 months has been a lack of mention of Hiya Magikarp, who should have been at least CBNC every single month, but instead has not been seen since the May 3rd rankings, where he was ranked 10th. Hiya seems to be one of the most underrated players in all progaming. He's been in the top 15 ELO now for over a year, often coming up in the low end of the top 10, but he seems to get treated as mediocre.
this
<3 Hiya
I still think Plexa's power ranks are fairly accurate but the lack of Hiya breaks my heart
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On August 27 2010 06:38 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:04 danl9rm wrote:On August 26 2010 16:15 Lightwip wrote:
These PR's seem pretty hard to make while PL isn't running.
No one except the top few play any games. Only the 2 #1's really count on the PR anyway. Totally disagree. Everybody goes apeshit if their favorite of Flash/JD isn't #1, but that's just rampant fanboyism talking, and misses the point of PR completely. The reality is that everything is, or should be, +/- 1 or 2 places. With rank 1, unless there is a clear and absolute, completely undisputed #1 in all of progaming, then it's not that big a deal who gets it so long as the person who does get it is worthy of it. The greatest failing of the power ranks over the past 3 months has been a lack of mention of Hiya Magikarp, who should have been at least CBNC every single month, but instead has not been seen since the May 3rd rankings, where he was ranked 10th. Hiya seems to be one of the most underrated players in all progaming. He's been in the top 15 ELO now for over a year, often coming up in the low end of the top 10, but he seems to get treated as mediocre.
This really shows how sad Oz is for Hiya and JD. Go look up ELO, and JD and Hiya are the only players on the first page O.o God Hiya and JD need to jump shit to SKT (Yankees of progaming should it happen), or Fox or something XD
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On August 27 2010 06:38 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 04:04 danl9rm wrote:On August 26 2010 16:15 Lightwip wrote:
These PR's seem pretty hard to make while PL isn't running.
No one except the top few play any games. Only the 2 #1's really count on the PR anyway. Totally disagree. Everybody goes apeshit if their favorite of Flash/JD isn't #1, but that's just rampant fanboyism talking, and misses the point of PR completely. The reality is that everything is, or should be, +/- 1 or 2 places. With rank 1, unless there is a clear and absolute, completely undisputed #1 in all of progaming, then it's not that big a deal who gets it so long as the person who does get it is worthy of it. The greatest failing of the power ranks over the past 3 months has been a lack of mention of Hiya Magikarp, who should have been at least CBNC every single month, but instead has not been seen since the May 3rd rankings, where he was ranked 10th. Hiya seems to be one of the most underrated players in all progaming. He's been in the top 15 ELO now for over a year, often coming up in the low end of the top 10, but he seems to get treated as mediocre.
You can't disagree with a random statement in my post. You took it completely out of context :/
edit: I guess I was a bit confusing.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
HiyA for September power ranking even though he didn't really do anything in August~
That would actually be kind of funny.
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So we get our Stork vs JD semis.  I think Stork has the skill to beat JD, but the question is if he has the mental strenght.
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OSL and PL showed us that protoss are back.
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Meh. This OSL Ro8 was the most boring Ro8 ever. Can't say I saw one good move in all the games.
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On August 27 2010 21:46 WWJDD wrote:
Meh. This OSL Ro8 was the most boring Ro8 ever. Can't say I saw one good move in all the games.
Indeed. Highlight was a kill from Flash's scv...
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If we get a Flash vs Jaedong final in the OSL (which imo will undoubtly happen), the 09/10 Season looked like this:
- Flash made 6/6 finals, Jaedong 4/6, that means 10 out of 12 final spots. The only other players in a final were Movie and EffOrt
- A fifth Flash vs Jaedong final was only prevented because they met in the Ro8 of EVER OSL
- The only player to eliminate one of them in an individual league is Baby
- WCG Korea...
- Both players set new ELO peaks for themselves (and therefore overall)
- Best and second best Proleague record
Of course Flash has been the clear #1 player this season. This wouldn't even change if Jaedong would take both finals (which is not going to happen) due to Proleague Grand Finals and Winners League. But looking at their combined domination over the scene is even more ridiculous.
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On August 27 2010 14:14 danl9rm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 06:38 Mortality wrote:On August 27 2010 04:04 danl9rm wrote:On August 26 2010 16:15 Lightwip wrote:
These PR's seem pretty hard to make while PL isn't running.
No one except the top few play any games. Only the 2 #1's really count on the PR anyway. Totally disagree. Everybody goes apeshit if their favorite of Flash/JD isn't #1, but that's just rampant fanboyism talking, and misses the point of PR completely. The reality is that everything is, or should be, +/- 1 or 2 places. With rank 1, unless there is a clear and absolute, completely undisputed #1 in all of progaming, then it's not that big a deal who gets it so long as the person who does get it is worthy of it. The greatest failing of the power ranks over the past 3 months has been a lack of mention of Hiya Magikarp, who should have been at least CBNC every single month, but instead has not been seen since the May 3rd rankings, where he was ranked 10th. Hiya seems to be one of the most underrated players in all progaming. He's been in the top 15 ELO now for over a year, often coming up in the low end of the top 10, but he seems to get treated as mediocre. You can't disagree with a random statement in my post. You took it completely out of context :/ edit: I guess I was a bit confusing.
Seemed like you were saying "the only thing that matters is the placement of Jaedong vs Flash." Which I totally disagree with on principle.
On August 27 2010 16:00 flamewheel wrote:
HiyA for September power ranking even though he didn't really do anything in August~
That would actually be kind of funny.
That would be funny and sad at the same time. This is the first month in a long time where he probably does not deserve mention, since he spent the month get smashed by superior players (and beating Jangbi, but no one cares about Jangbi anymore).
Of course Flash has been the clear #1 player this season. This wouldn't even change if Jaedong would take both finals (which is not going to happen) due to Proleague Grand Finals and Winners League. But looking at their combined domination over the scene is even more ridiculous.
Usually when people say "season" they are referring to a Starleague season.
But if JD wins both OSL and MSL, then Flash will not be the "clear #1" by any means.
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Show nested quote +Of course Flash has been the clear #1 player this season. This wouldn't even change if Jaedong would take both finals (which is not going to happen) due to Proleague Grand Finals and Winners League. But looking at their combined domination over the scene is even more ridiculous.
Usually when people say "season" they are referring to a Starleague season. But if JD wins both OSL and MSL, then Flash will not be the "clear #1" by any means.
The first sentence of my complete post says 09/10 Season, I think I don't have to write this down in each paragraph, it should be clear what I mean. One year in pro starcraft is clearly defined by the break that occurs around september (+/- a couple of weeks) and I surely will call this a season.
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On August 27 2010 23:03 Malinor wrote:Show nested quote +Of course Flash has been the clear #1 player this season. This wouldn't even change if Jaedong would take both finals (which is not going to happen) due to Proleague Grand Finals and Winners League. But looking at their combined domination over the scene is even more ridiculous.
Usually when people say "season" they are referring to a Starleague season. But if JD wins both OSL and MSL, then Flash will not be the "clear #1" by any means. The first sentence of my complete post says 09/10 Season, I think I don't have to write this down in each paragraph, it should be clear what I mean. One year in pro starcraft is clearly defined by the break that occurs around september (+/- a couple of weeks) and I surely will call this a season.
2G, 4S - 3G, 1S
I dont see how Flash would be the clear #1 then. Arguably #1 yes, but "clear #1"?
Hell JD would get a total of SEVEN SL golds, a feat not achieved by any player ever and he would repeat Nada's sick dual gold in one SL season.
If JD manages to 2-0 Flash in both finals, Flash's achievements would pale in comparison.
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On August 27 2010 23:06 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 23:03 Malinor wrote:Of course Flash has been the clear #1 player this season. This wouldn't even change if Jaedong would take both finals (which is not going to happen) due to Proleague Grand Finals and Winners League. But looking at their combined domination over the scene is even more ridiculous.
Usually when people say "season" they are referring to a Starleague season. But if JD wins both OSL and MSL, then Flash will not be the "clear #1" by any means. The first sentence of my complete post says 09/10 Season, I think I don't have to write this down in each paragraph, it should be clear what I mean. One year in pro starcraft is clearly defined by the break that occurs around september (+/- a couple of weeks) and I surely will call this a season. 2G, 4S - 3G, 1S I dont see how Flash would be the clear #1 then. Arguably #1 yes, but "clear #1"? Hell JD would get a total of SEVEN SL golds, a feat not achieved by any player ever and he would repeat Nada's sick dual gold in one SL season. If JD manages to 2-0 Flash in both finals, Flash's achievements would pale in comparison.
I think the WL-title plus SPL-title plus two more finals would make up for it. But of course that's just my opinion and yeah, clear #1 is probably an overstatement. Tomorrow we will know more anyway.
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On August 27 2010 23:03 Malinor wrote:Show nested quote +Of course Flash has been the clear #1 player this season. This wouldn't even change if Jaedong would take both finals (which is not going to happen) due to Proleague Grand Finals and Winners League. But looking at their combined domination over the scene is even more ridiculous.
Usually when people say "season" they are referring to a Starleague season. But if JD wins both OSL and MSL, then Flash will not be the "clear #1" by any means. The first sentence of my complete post says 09/10 Season, I think I don't have to write this down in each paragraph, it should be clear what I mean. One year in pro starcraft is clearly defined by the break that occurs around september (+/- a couple of weeks) and I surely will call this a season.
The first line was meant to be just a comment, really. The second line was addressing your point.
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EPT
