EPTAnd more importantly, what is Bisu's rank? Only if he didn't lose to Sea and Leta...
Power Rank 07/02/2010 - Page 54
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
And more importantly, what is Bisu's rank? Only if he didn't lose to Sea and Leta... | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On August 01 2010 12:10 NovaTheFeared wrote: 11-4 vs. 6-2, I guess it comes down to who did better last month. Nope, it comes down to which player got #1 last month for having #1 the month before. But that's an easy mistake to make. | ||
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DatTheMighty
Vietnam122 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 01 2010 12:06 L0thar wrote: LOL, Lightwip and Shikyo calling somebody biased. Now this PR has everything. I'm not biased O_o | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On August 01 2010 12:52 Djabanete wrote: Is there anyone who really thinks Flash's god mode rampage is over? I think the kid just had a few too many tequilas after 3-0'ing Jaedong, but now he's back in business. Flash is going to dominate in August. Expect "Bonwja?" to be written all over the live report threads, because this is about to get serious again. Maybe, maybe not. He sure hasn't shown it. He has to before he deserves #1. | ||
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
Seconded, Shikyo just knows the best player on earth when he see's him. Everyone one else has flies in their eyes, but you probably can't see them because you have flies in your eyes | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 01 2010 13:21 n.DieJokes wrote: Seconded, Shikyo just knows the best player on earth when he see's him. Everyone one else has flies in their eyes, but you probably can't see them because you have flies in your eyes I know who did well the past month by looking at the games and the results | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
On August 01 2010 02:40 StylishVODs wrote: None of the games were actually important for him or the team. ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRG! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't use this argument. EVER. 1. Do you actually know this? No. 2. Did Flash know this during the time of his losses? No. 3. Does Flash go into the booth TRYING to lose? No. 4. Do we know he didn't practice as much? No. 5. Can we prove this in any way? No. There's no proof for this ANYWHERE! It's a bad argument. It shouldn't matter at all because we can't tell if they were important to him or not. It also shouldn't matter because a loss is a loss. We HAVE to account for that first. A much better argument would be "he played amazingly despite his losses (which was true in some regards, but not for all of his ace-loss streak)" because that's verifiable. None of this "it didn't matter" crap is. You can't prove it, you can't disprove it. It's crap reasoning. | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
On August 01 2010 12:52 Djabanete wrote: Is there anyone who really thinks Flash's god mode rampage is over? I think the kid just had a few too many tequilas after 3-0'ing Jaedong, but now he's back in business. Flash is going to dominate in August. Expect "Bonwja?" to be written all over the live report threads, because this is about to get serious again. I would not be surprised if this happened. But dear god do I hope that you are wrong. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On August 01 2010 13:10 Lightwip wrote: Maybe, maybe not. He sure hasn't shown it. He has to before he deserves #1. Spots on PR are "rewards" for recent performance. I'm not talking about that, but making a prediction. | ||
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okum
France5778 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On August 01 2010 11:38 Lightwip wrote: IMO, this doesn't mean anything. If I said that if NaDa should be #1 if he gets his 100th PL win, it doesn't mean anything. It may not be a particularly easy choice since JD kinda failed an all-in vs Sea, but he's been playing better than Flash for the most part. If Flash plays like he did vs Zero for a month, he'll deserve #1(and a shitton of hate). But 2 months in a row of considerably worse results than JD doesn't make him deserve #1. And you are not without your bias my terran icon bearing friend. Exactly how is your comment about NaDa relevant? Several pages back, I talked about what I would do on the 1st/2nd argument and laid it out in terms of the games to come, which I felt were most significant (especially for Flash, who has played only half the number of games Jaedong has this month). What I don't get is this "2 months in a row of considerably worse results than JD" business. Last month was worse. This one wasn't. In terms of win percentage, they performed statistically comparable (Flash is slightly higher, but it's not significant due to the low sample size). He lost one game that left me scratching my head (vs Light) and lost one game to the defending OSL champion, who happens to be the third best player in the world and happens to have just trained to beat Flash. The reality is that Flash's play recently has not been worse than it was before. No matter what you do, no matter how good you are, SC is a game of taking calculated risks and other Terran players who studied Flash's style managed to snipe him in ace matches. They worked hard to secure advantages, played really, really well, and caught Flash at a time when he was worrying about other match-ups. And just as importantly, they were prepared when Flash wasn't. There's no reason to doubt that he'd win a bo5 over any Terran other than SkyHigh, who is #1 in vs Terran ELO of any player of any race. And there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that Flash's TvP and TvZ are any weaker than they were. His only TvP loss was a beautifully played game by one of the top PvTers out there where Flash only lost because Free barely managed to hang on to the remaining money on the map. And his only TvZ loss was, as I said, to the defending OSL champion. Flash may not be indisputably #1 anymore, but neither is Jaedong. As it stands, Flash is #2 is vT ELO (Jaedong is #3), #1 in vZ ELO (Jaedong is #3) and #2 in vP ELO (Jaedong is #1). For all that people talk about how Flash has fallen, the fact that he remains so highly ranked in a system that effectively measures streakiness is quite telling. JD's "hot streak" has only been enough to put him within spitting distance -- not enough to acquire a clear and indisputable lead. Which is why, several days ago, I decided that the last games of July would matter so heavily. Because what's important is seeing if this blips in the road were just blips or something more. So far there is absolutely no reason to think of them as anything other than blips. Since Flash played stronger at the tail end of the month, I'd give credit to Flash. Had he dropped even one game I wouldn't have. But he pulled through and looked convincing in it. | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
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zmeqt
Bulgaria527 Posts
On August 01 2010 16:17 Nick_54 wrote: I dont care what anyone else says, Proleague playoffs results should be given precedence over the ro16 starleague results. Hence, Bisu, Fantasy, and Best deserve very high (3,4,7) slots in my opinion. In that logic Jaedong should be 10th ? | ||
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
On August 01 2010 16:17 Nick_54 wrote: I dont care what anyone else says, Proleague playoffs results should be given precedence over the ro16 starleague results. Hence, Bisu, Fantasy, and Best deserve very high (3,4,7) slots in my opinion. Bisu lost both of his games against STX, got eliminated from the MSL 0-2, and is probably going to get kicked out of the OSL too. edit: Oops, yeah, he went 1-1 against Kal, I misremembered | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On August 01 2010 16:31 b0lt wrote: Bisu lost both of his games against STX, got eliminated from the MSL 0-2, and is probably going to get kicked out of the OSL too. WTF? No, Bisu won his first game against STX, and lost his second in a particularly close match. MSL, yeah that's a bit of a problem. vT seems to be his biggest concern right now. But he is certainly not sure to lose in the OSL. He just has to beat Effort and Action. That's not even unlikely. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On August 01 2010 16:11 Mortality wrote: Exactly how is your comment about NaDa relevant? Several pages back, I talked about what I would do on the 1st/2nd argument and laid it out in terms of the games to come, which I felt were most significant (especially for Flash, who has played only half the number of games Jaedong has this month). What I don't get is this "2 months in a row of considerably worse results than JD" business. Last month was worse. This one wasn't. In terms of win percentage, they performed statistically comparable (Flash is slightly higher, but it's not significant due to the low sample size). He lost one game that left me scratching my head (vs Light) and lost one game to the defending OSL champion, who happens to be the third best player in the world and happens to have just trained to beat Flash. The reality is that Flash's play recently has not been worse than it was before. No matter what you do, no matter how good you are, SC is a game of taking calculated risks and other Terran players who studied Flash's style managed to snipe him in ace matches. They worked hard to secure advantages, played really, really well, and caught Flash at a time when he was worrying about other match-ups. And just as importantly, they were prepared when Flash wasn't. There's no reason to doubt that he'd win a bo5 over any Terran other than SkyHigh, who is #1 in vs Terran ELO of any player of any race. And there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that Flash's TvP and TvZ are any weaker than they were. His only TvP loss was a beautifully played game by one of the top PvTers out there where Flash only lost because Free barely managed to hang on to the remaining money on the map. And his only TvZ loss was, as I said, to the defending OSL champion. Flash may not be indisputably #1 anymore, but neither is Jaedong. As it stands, Flash is #2 is vT ELO (Jaedong is #3), #1 in vZ ELO (Jaedong is #3) and #2 in vP ELO (Jaedong is #1). For all that people talk about how Flash has fallen, the fact that he remains so highly ranked in a system that effectively measures streakiness is quite telling. JD's "hot streak" has only been enough to put him within spitting distance -- not enough to acquire a clear and indisputable lead. Which is why, several days ago, I decided that the last games of July would matter so heavily. Because what's important is seeing if this blips in the road were just blips or something more. So far there is absolutely no reason to think of them as anything other than blips. Since Flash played stronger at the tail end of the month, I'd give credit to Flash. Had he dropped even one game I wouldn't have. But he pulled through and looked convincing in it. I think that your argument is very well thought out. But, I have a couple of small issues with it. Saying "#1 vZ ELO, etc." is kind of misleading, seeing as how close JD and Flash are. Their cumulative ELO points only differ by 17 points, which is not too large considering how much JD lost (and Sea gained) from that one lose at the end of the month. And when you mention how Flash played better at the tail of the month, I would have to argue that JD did quite good as well. His two losses at the end of the month were to Kal and Sea: they are both very high class players. While Kal may have some... issues with JD, he still played magnificently in their series, and scored a win in the process. Sea has a 1:1 win loss ratio in televised matches with JD, and his TvZ in general is quite good. In terms of number crunching, with a larger sample size (121 games played TvZ for Sea as compared to 114 ZvT for zero, Sea has a 10% higher win ratio), I would say that Sea's win over JD is feasible, while Zero winning over Flash would be much less so (And Sea did not even win over JD in a straight up matchup, but rather stubbornness to adapt to changes in the flow of the game, just as in Flash v. Light this month) Not to detract from Flash or Zero's gameplay (they both had their strengths, and zero could have made some better decisions), but I would personally give less weight to JD's loss than to Flash's win (we all know that he is the king of turtling and defending  ).In general, JD's amazing play throughout the entire month (his demolishing of Ssak, who played on his A-game in that series *note: JD beat Ssak with only mutal on dreamliner, maybe that's why he tried to do the same with Sea? 8D* and in particular his impeccable vP has been weighing too much to brush him back to #2, even with yesterday's performances. But Flash's performance was also too strong to be ignored as well. He was able to show us quite a bit of his great multitask in recent games, but none of the extreme star sense that threw him on massive win streaks vT, vZ, and vP, such as in the game against effort, where effort's excellent mindgames did a number on Flash (although this is attributable to Effort's skill as much as Flash's lack of sensing it). It would be nice if there were any more upcoming games where the two could play so that a more accurate PR could be made. I would love it if they could share the 1/2 spot, but I would ultimately choose... Jaedong. But if Flash could show us one more great game, I would definitely put him back to 1 unless JD did the same. (I am a Flash fan over JD, but feel that he needs to showcase his skills for a couple more games to have a complete grip over #1 again: JD's performance this month seems to be too significant to be given second place ONCE more to an inferior record in both sample size and some of the games' quality: I would say that JD's loss to Sea is comparable to Flash's loss to Light, in that nobody seems to know what the fuck they were thinking, and that JD's losses to Kal and Bisu are comparable to Flash's loss v. Effort: the occasional loss to a high class gamer, to the merit of Bisu and Effort in particular (poor Kal, I wish he would win a series over JD someday D ). | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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