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On July 31 2010 06:13 Phradamon wrote:1-  Jaedong with no problem 2-  Flash for going back after his 5 terran defeats 3- Fantasy - qualified and this put him above  Bisu, despite losing against CJ sKyHigh4- Sea - brilliant play, definitelly beat Bisu (i hate him, not a fan but results speak) 5- EffOrt - strong games 6- Bisu - is having a comeback but is so shaking against T. 7- Stork -old dino have some moves 8- fOrGG - qualified and strong results in SPL when Flash did not played good. 9- Action - his defilers are better than JD but he should learn vs P 10- Light - is above HiyA for his team going playoffs. CNBC: HiyA, Best, RorO, Pure, Violet.
Seriously?
If you're willing to bump bisu up for getting a few wins then losing again I can't see why you would drop flash for going 50/50 weeks ago. Flash is together and playing great now and has yet to lose an important game.
I love how flashs slump is him going 60% rather than 80%
Haters gunna hate.
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It's not a matter of whether or not Bisu's slumping -- he obviously isn't. It's a matter of Sea crushing him 2-0 and then Bisu losing to Leta in the OSL concurrent.
Though, admittedly, he also had to practice for PL playoffs, which is a very difficult 3 day back to back practice schedule.
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On July 31 2010 08:37 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It's not a matter of whether or not Bisu's slumping -- he obviously isn't. It's a matter of Sea crushing him 2-0 and then Bisu losing to Leta in the OSL concurrent.
Though, admittedly, he also had to practice for PL playoffs, which is a very difficult 3 day back to back practice schedule.
Indeed... I think we can cut Bisu some slack for losing to good players (Sea/Leta) in his worst matchup when he's powering SKT through Playoffs and both of them were already out of Playoffs. Obviously it's a mark against him, but Bisu has the hardest schedule of any player currently playing as he's the primary ace for SKT and made it to both the MSL and OSL ro16.
If he does good against STX, put him high, if he does bad against STX, put him low.
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I think JD could have won that game today with just muta ling, but he wanted to show his skills with only muta and he lost because of that. He could easily have won that game (his lead was just massive) - or he is just retarded, which ofc he isn't since he is one of the best (maybe the best player) in the world.
Flash looked unstoppable with his horrible turtle style today though so maybe he is back to his bonjwa form. But we're yet to see if he's back vs terran.
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On July 31 2010 10:41 Elroi wrote:
I think JD could have won that game today with just muta ling, but he wanted to show his skills with only muta and he lost because of that. He could easily have won that game (his lead was just massive) - or he is just retarded, which ofc he isn't since he is one of the best (maybe the best player) in the world.
Flash looked unstoppable with his horrible turtle style today though so maybe he is back to his bonjwa form. But we're yet to see if he's back vs terran. If Flash beats Violet today he will face ForGG in the MSL Ro8. 
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On July 31 2010 10:41 Elroi wrote:
Flash looked unstoppable with his horrible turtle style today though so maybe he is back to his bonjwa form. But we're yet to see if he's back vs terran.
Flash looked perfectly stoppable. Zero insisted on attacking the same location over and over again, instead of switching it up and attacking the south (where Flash had very few tanks since he'd moved them all up top since all the fighting was up top...)
His choice to mass only ground units also played into Flash's strategy to mass vulture/tank with very few goliaths or vessels. As it turns out, Guardians defeat vulture/tank/turret, and Zero already had several air upgrades.
Zero vs. Flash would've been less silly had Zero chosen to fight Flash in anything but the exact way Flash wanted - in a ground battle in only one location. Zero's slick tactics (synchronized zergling/hydra/ultra w/dropping on tanks and swarms and such) couldn't make up the different for that gaping strategic failure.
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I think Hyia should find a spot in the PR (9 or 10).He hs been showing great results lately,last month he was not even mentioned.Also hydra is going pretty good this month,he deserves atleast a cbnc spot.
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On July 31 2010 12:44 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 10:41 Elroi wrote:
Flash looked unstoppable with his horrible turtle style today though so maybe he is back to his bonjwa form. But we're yet to see if he's back vs terran. Flash looked perfectly stoppable. Zero insisted on attacking the same location over and over again, instead of switching it up and attacking the south (where Flash had very few tanks since he'd moved them all up top since all the fighting was up top...) His choice to mass only ground units also played into Flash's strategy to mass vulture/tank with very few goliaths or vessels. As it turns out, Guardians defeat vulture/tank/turret, and Zero already had several air upgrades. Zero vs. Flash would've been less silly had Zero chosen to fight Flash in anything but the exact way Flash wanted - in a ground battle in only one location. Zero's slick tactics (synchronized zergling/hydra/ultra w/dropping on tanks and swarms and such) couldn't make up the different for that gaping strategic failure.
Actually, Flash kept the south well-defended for most of the game. He had plenty of tanks in that location and only moved them for his final push towards the 1 o'clock expansion. By that time Zero's defence of the double gas was desperate and he couldn't afford to attack any other location.
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So Flash rolled Violet in a very one-sided game. Very convincing play. He should definitely keep his spot.
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On July 31 2010 12:44 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 10:41 Elroi wrote:
Flash looked unstoppable with his horrible turtle style today though so maybe he is back to his bonjwa form. But we're yet to see if he's back vs terran. His choice to mass only ground units also played into Flash's strategy to mass vulture/tank with very few goliaths or vessels. As it turns out, Guardians defeat vulture/tank/turret, and Zero already had several air upgrades.
Well, um, Flash's mass vultures and tanks were a response to Zero's ground-heavy army, not the other way around (well, both really). Had Zero built more muta/guardians, Flash would've built more goliaths/vessels instead of tanks.
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On July 31 2010 12:44 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 10:41 Elroi wrote:
Flash looked unstoppable with his horrible turtle style today though so maybe he is back to his bonjwa form. But we're yet to see if he's back vs terran. Flash looked perfectly stoppable. Zero insisted on attacking the same location over and over again, instead of switching it up and attacking the south (where Flash had very few tanks since he'd moved them all up top since all the fighting was up top...) His choice to mass only ground units also played into Flash's strategy to mass vulture/tank with very few goliaths or vessels. As it turns out, Guardians defeat vulture/tank/turret, and Zero already had several air upgrades. Zero vs. Flash would've been less silly had Zero chosen to fight Flash in anything but the exact way Flash wanted - in a ground battle in only one location. Zero's slick tactics (synchronized zergling/hydra/ultra w/dropping on tanks and swarms and such) couldn't make up the different for that gaping strategic failure.
The thing about the Zero vs Flash game is Zero allowed Flash to play the way he loves to play. Flash has proven that he has a harder time with early aggression rather than a long macro game which is Flash's strong suit. Given it's also Zero's more comfortable match-up but Flash playing comfortable is near impossible to beat.
I think Zero could've turned the tide had he not committed so hard to his drops and ultra/ling/defiler play. That said, even had Zero switched to guardians, I still don't know if Flash would've lost, given how many turrets he had, by the time the guardians destroyed them goliaths would've been all up in Zero's grill.
Flash may have played frustratingly (as a zerg I hate turtle terran but that's my own bias), but that is Flash's ideal play. He excels at long macro games and he played to that. That said, Effort and Jaedong would've been much more effective against that turtle, just because of their high APM. It's REALLY hard to say Flash looked stoppable or unstoppable from that one game. I don't think he showed me that he was doing poorly, but I also didn't see Flash's ultra dominance either.
At least Flash knows to play with what works instead of trying to prove a point. (Fucking JD... still pissed at your ego)
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Here's what I'd do:
1. Jaedong - playing well this month, despite a few fails near the end.
2. Flash - Still a good player, with fairly good play, but nothing particularly impressive this month.
3 EffOrt - really nice record, pretty good play, even though there's a few losses
4. Bisu - Pretty solid play in PL, a few fails in PvT against good players but all were starting from a disadvantage
5. Fantasy - Playing well, a few too many losses though
6. BeSt - Epic streak in PL playoffs to carry the team.
7. Sea - Pretty good.
8. Pure - Pretty clutch in PL, some fails though.
9 Stork - All-kill + beat Fantasy, but it's a bit too early to give him a high spot.
10. HiyA - Decent, idk who else to put here.
CNBC: Leta, free, Action
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On July 31 2010 17:51 Yxes2211 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 12:44 Severedevil wrote:On July 31 2010 10:41 Elroi wrote:
Flash looked unstoppable with his horrible turtle style today though so maybe he is back to his bonjwa form. But we're yet to see if he's back vs terran. Flash looked perfectly stoppable. Zero insisted on attacking the same location over and over again, instead of switching it up and attacking the south (where Flash had very few tanks since he'd moved them all up top since all the fighting was up top...) His choice to mass only ground units also played into Flash's strategy to mass vulture/tank with very few goliaths or vessels. As it turns out, Guardians defeat vulture/tank/turret, and Zero already had several air upgrades. Zero vs. Flash would've been less silly had Zero chosen to fight Flash in anything but the exact way Flash wanted - in a ground battle in only one location. Zero's slick tactics (synchronized zergling/hydra/ultra w/dropping on tanks and swarms and such) couldn't make up the different for that gaping strategic failure. The thing about the Zero vs Flash game is Zero allowed Flash to play the way he loves to play. Flash has proven that he has a harder time with early aggression rather than a long macro game which is Flash's strong suit. Given it's also Zero's more comfortable match-up but Flash playing comfortable is near impossible to beat. I think Zero could've turned the tide had he not committed so hard to his drops and ultra/ling/defiler play. That said, even had Zero switched to guardians, I still don't know if Flash would've lost, given how many turrets he had, by the time the guardians destroyed them goliaths would've been all up in Zero's grill. Flash may have played frustratingly (as a zerg I hate turtle terran but that's my own bias), but that is Flash's ideal play. He excels at long macro games and he played to that. That said, Effort and Jaedong would've been much more effective against that turtle, just because of their high APM. It's REALLY hard to say Flash looked stoppable or unstoppable from that one game. I don't think he showed me that he was doing poorly, but I also didn't see Flash's ultra dominance either. At least Flash knows to play with what works instead of trying to prove a point. (Fucking JD... still pissed at your ego)
You make it sound like Zero did a mistake.
He did the singlemost best thing I seen vs mech in a long fucking time, he DEMOLISHED flashs tankline over and over and over.
The south was defend by 8 or so tanks, mines and gazillions on turrets, wouldnt work.
Actually the main point why progammers SHOULDNT go air vs flash in that situation is that they cant get to that Ultralingdrop phase which ALLMOST broke flashs back. I mean, if Flash didnt send 3 vultures to zeros expo he wouldve been toast.
If anything that game was credit to both of the players than anything else, flash showed rocksolid mech and zero showing the zvt he troubles flash with over and over.
Also tell me what Zero couldve done better, as you said yourself, zero does best in midlategame (where he has slain flash before) >_> <_<
Before posting further I am gonna retwatch the game, because your normally see stuff afterwards whcih you dont see live (why vods are that awesum <3)
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Also why are people forgetting stats? he smashed sea and zero only to get cheesed out by Calm of the MSL >_>
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Vatican City State431 Posts
On July 31 2010 19:46 Lightwip wrote:Here's what I'd do: 1. Jaedong - playing well this month, despite a few fails near the end. 2. Flash - Still a good player, with fairly good play, but nothing particularly impressive this month. 3 EffOrt - really nice record, pretty good play, even though there's a few losses 4. Bisu - Pretty solid play in PL, a few fails in PvT against good players but all were starting from a disadvantage 5. Fantasy - Playing well, a few too many losses though 6. BeSt - Epic streak in PL playoffs to carry the team. 7. Sea - Pretty good. 8. Pure - Pretty clutch in PL, some fails though. 9 Stork - All-kill + beat Fantasy, but it's a bit too early to give him a high spot. 10. HiyA - Decent, idk who else to put here. CNBC: Leta, free, Action
R U kidding me? 4 Protoss in the Top 10? All Protoss just failed big in the individual leagues..Maybe 4 Terrans..
PS: Jaedong is starting to lose games left and right and if you take that 3-0 prison rape in consideration no way Jaedong is no 1. Efoort #3 maybe.
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Vatican City State431 Posts
On July 31 2010 20:00 Iplaythings wrote:
Also why are people forgetting stats? he smashed sea and zero only to get cheesed out by Calm of the MSL >_>
If you're good you need to be able to defend cheese..so..
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Vatican City State431 Posts
1 thing I guess all agree is that Baby should be out of Top 10. Too many fails!
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On July 31 2010 20:02 p14c wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 20:00 Iplaythings wrote:
Also why are people forgetting stats? he smashed sea and zero only to get cheesed out by Calm of the MSL >_> If you're good you need to be able to defend cheese..so..
The 1 gate expo was somewhat dumb, but even though stats accidently cancelled storm, it wouldnt had finished in time to defend vs le bust.
And calm disguised it pretty well.
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On July 31 2010 20:01 p14c wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 19:46 Lightwip wrote:Here's what I'd do: 1. Jaedong - playing well this month, despite a few fails near the end. 2. Flash - Still a good player, with fairly good play, but nothing particularly impressive this month. 3 EffOrt - really nice record, pretty good play, even though there's a few losses 4. Bisu - Pretty solid play in PL, a few fails in PvT against good players but all were starting from a disadvantage 5. Fantasy - Playing well, a few too many losses though 6. BeSt - Epic streak in PL playoffs to carry the team. 7. Sea - Pretty good. 8. Pure - Pretty clutch in PL, some fails though. 9 Stork - All-kill + beat Fantasy, but it's a bit too early to give him a high spot. 10. HiyA - Decent, idk who else to put here. CNBC: Leta, free, Action R U kidding me? 4 Protoss in the Top 10? All Protoss just failed big in the individual leagues..Maybe 4 Terrans.. PS: Jaedong is starting to lose games left and right and if you take that 3-0 prison rape in consideration no way Jaedong is no 1. Efoort #3 maybe.
Starting to lose games left and right is a pretty harsh term when he has lost 2 out of his last 10 games, one of them being in a series he won. And the 3-0 loss should hardly count for a lot anymore, it's been two months since that happened. I would probably still put Flash at #1 just because no one else did anything remarkable this month, but Jaedong is definitely #2 and not that far of from #1 either.
EDIT: Also don't triple post, use the edit button.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Looking like:
#1 - Flash
#2 - Jaedong
#3 - EffOrt
#4 - fantasy
#5 - BeSt
#6 - Bisu
#7 - HiYa
#8 - free[gm]
#9 - Sea
#10 - Stork
HiyA is the oddest spot there, but seeing as how the evidence points to Plexa just forgetting about him last month, something most of us did anyway, and the fact that he should've been on the PR last month, I kind of gave him a boost.
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EPT
